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Shawy38 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2019 at 8:30pm
Gee whiz this has stumped me.
Over to others
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Majestic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2019 at 6:56pm
Carioca, let nobody tell us our memories are going. Winfreux went to Qld as the winner of a maiden and improvers in country Vic. He absolutely bloomed in the sunshine, taking the Stradbroke in his first venture north. Taking on WFA in the spring he confirmed his arrival as a very serious racehorse. He ran 2nd in the 10,000 I think that first time, but came back to win Doomben Cup the next year. Jimmy Johnson basically trained him in Vic, but I don’t remember the recognised trainer. One of my favourites for guts and will to win. Unfortunately, was brought back into work at maybe A10yo, runnin,g in country sprints. His form tapered off and was permanently retired after a few bad runs at this time.
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Grey Affair View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2019 at 6:59pm
I have a book that suggests he was trained by CA Wilson at one stage & JV Hodge (his owner) at another time.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2019 at 8:02pm
Pretty much on the money there Grey Affair, "Mick " Wilson did train him in the halcyon days , blew them away in Brisbane winning the Stradbroke , Doomben 10K , Doomben Cup, I think he may have won a sprint again, Viv Hodge , your right Majestic Jimmy J. took very little notice of him in regard to what was required to maintain fitness , the time I was at Chiquita Lodge Jimmy J. was stable jockey for Tony Lopes so saw quite a bit of Winfreux when Hodge brought him over for t/work , big rangy long striding bay , oodles of talent , raced till near 10 yrs, plenty of memories , thanks Majestic.
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Carioca View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2019 at 8:09pm
Just like to add Mick Wilson was a " money man" , bit of a hot head I think lol, great conditioner who may have trained at Bendigo, I'm thinking he may have trained Bunratty Castle ( imported top liner but moody) not 100 % though.
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Carioca View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2019 at 9:02pm
Kevin Wynne may have trained Bunratty Castle, I'm pretty sure he trained at Bendigo to.
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Majestic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 9:06pm
Will revisit next week. I will restrict to pre80’s. Just for Carioca and friends. 
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Majestic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 8:32pm
what stallion has the highest SW/ foals and SW/winners in Australia? Could be possibly two different stallions.
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Grey Affair View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 11:32pm
The Welkin?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 11:44pm
Foxbridge?
Star Kingdom?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 12:22am
.... or Adraan (if 7 SWs qualifies)

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furious View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 7:33am
On numbers Wallace was pretty high
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Majestic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 11:35am
yes Grey Affair. Adrian had only 23 named progeny, from memory I think I read somewhere that, of these 23, 21 started. Thus with 7 SWs his SW/starters is 33% and obviously slightly better than that for SW/named foals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 11:58am
Also, without my library which is at the farm, I seem to recall Star Kingdom had about 400 named progeny and is credited with 60 SW, 15%. Foxbridge had 425 named foals and still had 70SW, so slightly better percentage. The Welkin is credited with 46 SW and I can only assume his books would have been quite a lot smaller than the two stallions mentioned above. 250 named progeny would equate to approx 18%. Still those three are so far ahead of today’s stallions and that would be simply due to the numbers today’s stallions serve each year.
Furious, do you have any data on The Welkin and Wallace? My info Is quite sparse pre 1920.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 4:49pm
Hi Majestic.  I don't have the exact figures but could go through my data and see.  He had very few crops over 10.  Seems to be the way it was back then.  But had 53 stakes winners of 163 stakeraces - exceptional record off very small crops.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 4:55pm
The amazing things is 33 of those 53 are what we'd call G1 winners.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 5:40pm
Here they are

Wallace (1892) Ailsa Telegraph H
Amata Newmarket H
Aurous Futurity S
Beanba VRC Oaks
Blairgour Memsie, Oakleigh, Futurity
Bonnie Chief Toorak
Charles Stuart All-Aged S, Champagne S
Emir AJC Plate
FJA VRC Derby, SA Derby, Toorak H
Impress VRC Sires
Kildalton SA Derby
Kinglike Caulfield Guineas
Kingsburgh Melbourne Cup
Lady Wallace VRC Derby, VRC Oaks, All-Aged S, Caulfield Guineas
Lord Derby Goodwood H
Macadam Perth Cup, Australian Cup
Moe VRC Oaks
Mother Goose VRC Sires
Mountain King AJC Derby, All Aged S, VRC Derby,
Patrobas Mebourne Cup, VRC Derby, Caulfield Guineas
Queen of Scots Newmarket H, Oakleigh Plate
Red Streak VRC Oaks
Rosanna VRC Oaks
Scotland VRC Newmarket H
Sheriff Muir VRC Sires'
Sunny South Ascot Vale
Trafalgar Sydney Cup, Melbourne S, AJC Plate (three)
Troytown Adelaide Cup
True Scot Goodwood H
Wallace Isinglass Rosehill Guineas
Wallalo Australian Cup
Wilari VRC Derby, Oaks
Wolawa VRC Derby, AJC Sires
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Majestic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 6:33pm
thus, he could be in Adrian territory. Surmising here, say had 15 seasons at stud averaging, say, 20 mares per year average and possibly 12 foals per season. That say 180 foals and maybe 150 named. 53 SW is maybe 35%. AMAZING if assumptions can be verified and adjusted for facts. Maybe an old ASB search. Again all of my ASBs are on the farm.will try to remember to look up next I go country.
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furious View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 9:15pm
They list mares under their sire but not foals. If nothing else a goodly amount of G1 winners to stakes winners
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