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Vow and Declare/Prince of Arran

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Ticino View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 8:10pm
Hello,
When I checked the ped of the "Melbourne Cup Winner" Vow and Declare, I spot in his damline a Name
I was familiar. At first I couldn't remember where, but a later Research revealed it's the same damline
as Golden Horn (English Derby winner), the common ancester is "Loralane".
 
As I see, the "declared second" by the Stewards "Prince of Arran" is by the Germanbred Sire "Shirocco", well his Sire is "Monsun". So it's an indirect success for the Germanbred Racehorses. Shirocco was purchased by Godolphin, but later sent to South America (Brazil?).
 
regards, Ticino
 
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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 8:41pm
VOW AND DECLARE (AUS)Chestnut gelding 2015 
Declaration of War
Bay 2009
War Front
Bay 2002
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Starry Dreamer
Grey 1994
Rubiano
Grey 1987
Fappiano
Ruby Slippers
1977
1982
16-a
3-o
Lara's Star
Bay 1981
Forli
True Reality
1963
1973
3-b
4-r
Tempo West
Chestnut 1999
Rahy
Chestnut 1985
Blushing Groom
Chestnut 1974
Red God
Runaway Bride
1954
1962
8-c
22-d
Glorious Song
Bay 1976
Halo
Ballade
1969
1972
2-d
12-c
Tempo
Chestnut 1992
Gone West
Bay 1984
Mr Prospector
Secrettame
1970
1978
13-c
2-f
Terpsichorist
Chestnut 1975
Nijinsky
Glad Rags
1967
1963
8-f
13-b
Geblitzt
Chestnut 2006
Testa Rossa
Bay 1996
Perugino
Bay or brown 1991
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Bo Dapper
Bay 1985
Sir Dapper
Bay 1980
Vain
Sikri
1966
1967
A10
C25
Bodega
Bay 1973
Without Fear
Salon
1967
1964
4-c
1-w
Aim for Gold
Bay 2000
End Sweep
Bay 1991
Forty Niner
Chestnut 1985
Mr Prospector
File
1970
1976
13-c
1-n
Broom Dance
Bay 1979
Dance Spell
Witching Hour
1973
1960
2-f
4-r
Young Vic
Bay 1992
Old Vic
Bay 1986
Sadler's Wells
Cockade
1981
1973
5-h
11-a
Loralane
Bay 1977
Habitat
Lora
1966
1972
4-r
9-c
 Ancestor duplications:Danzig3m x 4m Mr Prospector5m x 5m




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 8:42pm
PRINCE OF ARRAN (GB)Bay gelding 2013 
Shirocco
Bay 2001
Monsun
Bay or brown 1990
Konigsstuhl
Brown 1976
Dschingis Khan
Brown 1961
Tamerlane
Donna Diana
1952
1956
1-e
6-e
Konigskronung
Brown 1965
Tiepoletto
Kronung
1956
1957
2-c
5-h
Mosella
Bay 1985
Surumu
Chestnut 1974
Literat
Surama
1965
1970
7-b
19>
Monasia
Bay 1979
Authi
Monacensia
1970
1969
14-b
8-a
So Sedulous
Bay 1991
The Minstrel
Chestnut 1974
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fleur
Bay 1964
Victoria Park
Flaming Page
1957
1959
10-c
8-f
Sedulous
1986
Tap on Wood
Chestnut 1976
Sallust
Cat o' Mountaine
1969
1967
2-o
14-f
Pendulina
Brown 1978
Prince Tenderfoot
Rosemarin
1967
1966
8-c
2-e
Storming Sioux
Bay 2006
Storming Home
Bay or brown 1998
Machiavellian
Bay or brown 1987
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Coup de Folie
Bay 1982
Halo
Raise the Standard
1969
1978
2-d
2-d
Try to Catch Me
Bay 1986
Shareef Dancer
Bay 1980
Northern Dancer
Sweet Alliance
1961
1974
2-d
4-r
It's in the Air
Bay 1976
Mr Prospector
A Wind Is Rising
1970
1969
13-c
4-k
Sueboog
Bay 1990
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Bay 1975
Mill Reef
Hardiemma
1968
1969
22-d
1-l
Delsy
Brown 1972
Abdos
Kelty
1959
1965
1-e
13-c
Nordica
Chestnut 1983
Northfields
Chestnut 1968
Northern Dancer
Little Hut
1961
1952
2-d
4-r
Princess Arabella
Bay 1978
Crowned Prince
Fair Arabella
1969
1968
4-d
16-c
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 5m,5m Mr Prospectorx 4m,5f




reductio ad absurdum



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Grey Affair View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 8:59pm
Vow And Declare also related to G1 winners Hauraki & Kidnapped as well as stakeswinners Academus, Deledio, Walking Or Dancing, Irongail & of course his half-brother Lycurgus.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 11:54pm
Couldn’t get $60k for him.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 12:03pm
Also with vow and declare he has his tail female going to Lora who is also in the tail female of cracksman
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 12:31pm
... and Lora was a half sister to Klairessa, the dam of Eight Carat & Great Klaire, two mares who had a major influence on Australian & New Zealand breeding as well as the champion sprinter Habibti.

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Humidor traces back to Habibti.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diomed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2019 at 9:23pm
Good spot.
I notice the pedigree of Loralane and the champion sprinter Habibti (1980) are similar, both by Habitat.  What jumps out is the full-sibling brother Royal Charger (Nearco-Sun Princess) on their sire lines and the full-sibling sister Tessa Gillian (Nearco-Sun Princess) on their dam lines.  I think Habibti bred nothing useful, in my data nine offspring rated 67, 82, 45, NR, 33, 79, 25, 68, 73.  Habibti was rated 132.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2019 at 10:19am
Prince of Arran was ruled out of the G1 Japan Cup when Japanese racing officials disallowed the use of a stalls blanket, used to help load horses with an aversion to the confines of the starting gate.

Japan Cup will have no foreign runner for the first time in its history.

Prince of Arran is heading for Hong Kong instead for the Longines Hong Kong Vase (G1) on Dec. 8 —a race in which he finished eighth last year from an outside draw.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2019 at 6:18pm
Hello,
a few remarks of mine.
 
At first many thanks for mentioning more descents of Lora in AUS. my Intention was the strain of "Lora" is still represented in Europe.
 
I had a look at the peds of Habibti/Loralane like Diomed. Both are Habitat (very good broodmare Sire in Europe), but it's a more complex ped. Loralane/Habibti by Habitat, damsire of Habibti (o/o Klairessa) is Klairon, damsire Lora is Lorenzaccio by Klairon. Granddam of both mares is Courtessa by Supreme Court. Such Kind of ped is called 5/8 relatives.
Even more interesting the dam of the top broodmare "Eight Carat" (Octagonal) is Klairessa! Lora and Klairessa  are 3/4 relatives. So we have a set of 3 closely related broodmares.
 
As already pointed out Habibti's first Generation offspring wasn't a great success on the race track. The picture looks a bit different with the Grandsons/Granddaughters, see Mining Propect (Rock of Gibraltar), Ilitshe (Fastnet Rock) and in Europe Morshdi (Slip Anchor). He won the Gr. Preis von Baden and should stand as Sire in Germany, unfortunately he was infertile and was send back racing.
 
Best regards, Ticino
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2019 at 12:23pm
Hopefully Prince Of Arran can run well in the Hong Kong Vase this Saturday.

Melbourne Cup Runners: Record in Hong Kong Vase: Same Year as Running in the Cup - Since 1999


2018:

Rostropovich - 7th

Prince Of Arran - 8th


2017:

Max Dynamite - 6th

Tiberian - 11th


2016:

Big Orange - 11th


2015:

Preferment - 7th


2014:

Red Cadeaux - 6th


2013:

Dunaden - 3rd

Red Cadeaux - 4th

Simenon - 5th

Mount Athos - 9th


2012:

Red Cadeaux - 1st

Dunaden - 5th


2011:

Dunaden - 1st

Red Cadeaux - 3rd


2010:

Americain - 3rd


2009:

No Runners


2008:

No Runners


2007

No Runners


2006:

No Runners


2005:

No Runners


2004:

No Runners


2003:

No Runners


2002:

No runners


2001:

No Runners


2000:

No Runners


1999:

Rogan Josh - 4th



17 runners: 2-0-3
Your F50 aircraft is now ready for boarding.
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Jamal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2019 at 12:23pm
Sorry I meant Sunday
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 2:54pm
Melbourne Cup form hasn't held up on the world stage again....no surprises of course. Oh well. Always next year
Your F50 aircraft is now ready for boarding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 3:09pm
Please elaborate so we can better understand your point.  Runners, where, finishing position, opponents etc.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 3:27pm
Oh Geezus Jamal... talk about laying the boot in
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 3:30pm
Crikey they had Athero at Black Caviar odds. Don't follow HK form so had a quick look at his form and it wasn't Black Caviar form.
"Two hundred years ago, 99.999 percent of human idiocy went unrecorded. Now we have the Internet."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Melbourne Cup form hasn't held up on the world stage again....no surprises of course. Oh well. Always next year


Held up better than Epsom Derby form.
"Two hundred years ago, 99.999 percent of human idiocy went unrecorded. Now we have the Internet."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 5:02pm
Well said Tlaz!

And on top of that taking 3200m form for a 2400m race is the bastion of fools.
The Epsom derby is 2400m so failed miserably.
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 5:03pm
Where's Jamal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 5:19pm
.... and the mare that finished 10th in the Melbourne Cup has just finished a close second in the Hong Kong Cup.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 5:28pm
Pretty weak HK Cup this year.
"Two hundred years ago, 99.999 percent of human idiocy went unrecorded. Now we have the Internet."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 6:22pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Melbourne Cup form hasn't held up on the world stage again....no surprises of course. Oh well. Always next year


Yet Magic Wand did it proud.

She should have bolted in.




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Melbourne Cup form hasn't held up on the world stage again....no surprises of course. Oh well. Always next year


Yet Magic Wand did it proud.

She should have bolted in.


Could/should...it doesn't cut it. Sorry mate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 1:04am
Even her close second whether you like it or not it did justice to her Melbourne form.




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 10:33am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Even her close second whether you like it or not it did justice to her Melbourne form.


Correct. But not in the Cup. More like the Mackinnon Stakes form held up overseas. I am referring to the Cup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Even her close second whether you like it or not it did justice to her Melbourne form.


Correct. But not in the Cup. More like the Mackinnon Stakes form held up overseas. I am referring to the Cup.

So what 2 mile race did she race in yesterday to form that opinion?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2020 at 4:39am
I don't want to particularly start a new thread but Forty Niner, who is seen on the dam's side of Vow and Declare passed away in Japan at age 35!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2021 at 2:46am
Prince of Arran entered in the US2.5 million Red Sea Turf Handicap over 3000 metres King Abdulaziz Racetrack, Saudi Arabia.
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