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Victorian Racing Integrity & Stewards

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djebel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 11:07am
Do they have enough races down there ?

How many horses are nominated each day and how many miss out on a run ?

Do the powers that be really look after the owner down there ?

There seems to be plenty of Jumps races around with barely any runners in them yet there is a massive shortage of flat racing.




Edited by Gay3 - 18 Aug 2023 at 9:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 11:26am
I think all country trainers would agree with you djebel. We tend to have huge & competitive fields but how often does the punter see races at Stawell, Murtoa, Ararat, Warracknabeal, Camperdown, Mortlake, Hamilton etc & I'm only using one area as an example. They've been cut to the bone in favour of Geel. synthetic, Pakky, Bendigo, Ballarat & other Prov. rated tracks, taking up days that used to belong to genuine country clubs.
Weekends never passed without a minimum of 2 meetings at above mentioned tracks & owners were able to compete without most maidens fields consisting of 60% metrop. trained horses.
Times have changed, similarly to the supermarket vs. family owned business.


Edited by Gay3 - 30 Jun 2015 at 11:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 11:35am
If you have a metro trained horse that needs to go to the country to win a maiden then you're in some serious trouble IMO. You have a money muncher on your hands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 11:37am
it's time NSW and VIC adopted some rules to stop city horses going to the provincials and country quite so much - they have much better training facilities, not to mention horses, and should be made to start their runners a few times in town before being allowed to take them to a lower grade meeting 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Group 1 Selections Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 12:01pm
So we want to rob the country racing people of seeing the best jockeys, trainers and potential horses?

This is a professional sport not a charity?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 12:08pm
can't wait till 4 trainers per state is all there is and it's just boring like Sydney racing - it's an industry first and foremost, with facilities often paid for by clubs and racing authorities not individual trainers - they just lap up the goodness and let everyone else not given a town spot struggle 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Group 1 Selections Group 1 Selections wrote:

So we want to rob the country racing people of seeing the best jockeys, trainers and potential horses?

This is a professional sport not a charity?

There is merit in what lingi has to say.

Not all Maidens are the same class of race.

Its a shame we do not have proper handicapping in Australia.

We could learn a lot from UK racing and one of them is their maiden races and their conditions.

Why couldn't a City trained horse running in a Mildura maiden run with a penalty ?

Why couldn't we have sales related conditions in maidens ? ie weights based on the price the horse cost at auction or races limited to horses sold at a certain price ? 

An example bellow

ARC RACING SYNDICATES MAIDEN AUCTION STAKES (CLASS 6) (2yo) Winner £2,264 5 runners5f11y Firm ATR

Race Conditions: £3,500 guaranteed For 2yo sold or bought in as yearlings by public auction at 'specified sales', or as 2yo up to and including May 31st, 2015, for £21000 or less before July 1st, 2014, or for £24000 or less after June 30th, 2014 (The last sale to govern the price if sold more than once) Weights colts & geldings 9st 4lb; fillies 8st 13lbAllowances horses sold or bought in for £18000 or less 3lb; £12000 or less 5lb; £6000 or less 7lb (For the calculation of allowances horses sold before July 1st, 2014, an additional £3000 must be added to the horses' auction price) Entries 12 pay £ 17 Penalty value 1st £2,264.15 2nd £673.75 3rd £336.70 4th £168.35

reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Group 1 Selections Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

can't wait till 4 trainers per state is all there is and it's just boring like Sydney racing - it's an industry first and foremost, with facilities often paid for by clubs and racing authorities not individual trainers - they just lap up the goodness and let everyone else not given a town spot struggle 


I am not sure what this has to do with limiting country racing and its prizemoney to country trainers only. That is unfair to the rest of the industry including the Metrop participants who's wagering turnover and attendances actually fund alot of the costs and prizemoney outside the metro area.

I am all for country racing but the better stables and riders who race in these areas increase the quality of the meetings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 12:15pm
Some of the best tracks in Victoria host meetings once a year. Camperdown is so big and spacious, every horse gets its chance yet they hold one meeting a year.

Murtoa is another that springs to mind.

Even Mildura.  The list goes on.

Look at last weeks racing. 2 meetings in a row at Pakenham synthetic, One at Geelong synthetic .  Not everyone has horses that want to race on Synthetic.   We have been crying out for wet tracks and half the time the races are moved away or cancelled. It's BULLgelati...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 12:18pm
Looking at nominations for the country and metro meeting this coming weekend

Caulfield 268 nominations (9 races) $750,000 total prizemoney offered

Donald   463 nominations (7 races) $105,000 total prizemoney offered


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by Group 1 Selections Group 1 Selections wrote:

Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

can't wait till 4 trainers per state is all there is and it's just boring like Sydney racing - it's an industry first and foremost, with facilities often paid for by clubs and racing authorities not individual trainers - they just lap up the goodness and let everyone else not given a town spot struggle 


I am not sure what this has to do with limiting country racing and its prizemoney to country trainers only. That is unfair to the rest of the industry including the Metrop participants who's wagering turnover and attendances actually fund alot of the costs and prizemoney outside the metro area.

I am all for country racing but the better stables and riders who race in these areas increase the quality of the meetings.

I agree with your premise that racing is not a charity.

I have never believed all classes of race on a particular day should be the same prizemoney.

No way should a maiden race, BM80 and an open handicap be the same prize money.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by tillyras tillyras wrote:

Looking at nominations for the country and metro meeting this coming weekend

Caulfield 268 nominations (9 races) $750,000 total prizemoney offered

Donald   463 nominations (7 races) $105,000 total prizemoney offered



I have no problem with that disparity. 

Perhaps the $105,000 at Donald should be spread out over 10 races rather than 7 ?

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote correctweight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 1:22pm
http://www.racenet.com.au/news/113076/Melbourne-springs-programs-adjusted-for-2015
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Bond Esq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 1:25pm
We need one authority running Austealian racing not separate decisions from states.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Bond Esq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 1:28pm
But there was no option, they couldn't have gone with NSW because of the bars turds who ran it.

It was change or die.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 1:37pm
My lawyers will be in touch soon Djebel    LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 1:45pm
Owners should have the right to race their horses wherever they see fit and in Vic MANY city runners are either based in the country or cut their teeth on country races. That ought not prevent jurisdictions from having some "rich" restricted races a la the NSW country and provincial championships events which exclude city trainers. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 2:39pm
Metrop trained horse all have owners & some of these would still like & are entitled to that photo on the wall no matter where it's gained, usually these horses are moved on quickly but the owners still have something to remember their involvement, not to mention outlay.
I've always maintained if it's too hot in the kitchen, get out but these days, there's barely a 'kitchen' to compete in.
Whilst I've no stats, I feel sure the ratio of genuine country meetings to provincial/metrop has markedly decreased in the last 20 years & were there fewer runners/race presently, I could understand but the majority are fully filled. Far too skewed imo, to the detriment of rural owners, breeders & trainers Disapprove
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

My lawyers will be in touch soon Djebel    LOL




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

If you have a metro trained horse that needs to go to the country to win a maiden then you're in some serious trouble IMO. You have a money muncher on your hands.

If its a first starter, why not go to the country to pick up $10k + BOBS/VOBIS & give your horse a positive experience first up.  

Agree that if you then stay racing in the country - you have a money muncher.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subastral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 3:45pm
Moody has made a career out of starting them in the bush for confidence. Moment of Change the most obvious, winning a Murtoa maiden on debut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 3:58pm
Those types of horses don't "need" to go to the country to get a win. They are going there for additional reasons. There was the comment that a large percentage of horses in country maidens are city trained. Not all of these horses are coming to for a confidence boosting win. The majority are coming because they have limited ability. My comment stands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 4:03pm
Fair enough - the majority may be doing that.

A lot however to go there for a confidence booster even if city class
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sworn Revenge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Moody has made a career out of starting them in the bush for confidence. Moment of Change the most obvious, winning a Murtoa maiden on debut.


Bang on Sub. If people have got an issue with city trainers going to the far flung country tracks they've got Moody to blame.

When the other trainers saw how his strike rate went through the roof and how many owners flocked to his stable they followed like sheep.

No disrespect E&E but as regards country maidens where else are trainers going to go? Aside from Sandown on a Wednesday there are no city track maidens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

If you have a metro trained horse that needs to go to the country to win a maiden then you're in some serious trouble IMO. You have a money muncher on your hands.

I Vic most country tracks are within a couple of hours of Melbourne. There is also not a lot of metro maiden races to target.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by Sworn Revenge Sworn Revenge wrote:

Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Moody has made a career out of starting them in the bush for confidence. Moment of Change the most obvious, winning a Murtoa maiden on debut.


Bang on Sub. If people have got an issue with city trainers going to the far flung country tracks they've got Moody to blame.

When the other trainers saw how his strike rate went through the roof and how many owners flocked to his stable they followed like sheep.

No disrespect E&E but as regards country maidens where else are trainers going to go? Aside from Sandown on a Wednesday there are no city track maidens




It's not about where the trainers are going to go it's about where the horses are going to go. And quite simply they shouldn't be going to city trainers once their (lack of) ability is known.

If your horse needs to go to the country to find a suitable race then you have a big problem financially. Having it trained in the city just makes that problem worse. These class of animals should be trained in the country where the owners can save a signifanct amount of money in training fees. That's my point. Nothing to do with whether or not city trained horses should be permitted to run in the country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

it's time NSW and VIC adopted some rules to stop city horses going to the provincials and country quite so much - they have much better training facilities, not to mention horses, and should be made to start their runners a few times in town before being allowed to take them to a lower grade meeting 
It would be quite reasonable to have open and restricted races if it is for the betterment of racing.

For example:

Open Maiden
Provincial and Country Maiden
Country Maiden

Not sure whether it's a positive move or not, needs further discussion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by whitt0 whitt0 wrote:

Fair enough - the majority may be doing that.

A lot however to go there for a confidence booster even if city class


Many also go simply to earn a high enough rating to get runs in 3yo metrop races Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

it's time NSW and VIC adopted some rules to stop city horses going to the provincials and country quite so much - they have much better training facilities, not to mention horses, and should be made to start their runners a few times in town before being allowed to take them to a lower grade meeting 
It would be quite reasonable to have open and restricted races if it is for the betterment of racing.

For example:

Open Maiden
Provincial and Country Maiden
Country Maiden

Not sure whether it's a positive move or not, needs further discussion.

it's not all simple but it's not really 100% workable at present for a lot of tracks and their participants - with the increased prizemoney I would not be surprised if lots of the country and provincial participants are actually worse off; why don't we have some reduced prizemoney maidens in town? can't possibly be as hideous as low benchmark races!

certain country tracks like Nowra and Goulburn, they're often won by town horses - 6 out of 7 for example at Goulburn last time they raced; adding to the issue is the handicapping - where out of towners do not get re-handicapped properly, and with no spread in the weights anymore - our racing is becoming less and less competitive for visitors. and why are locals often struggling? do they all have a sand, cinder, proride, grass track. etc like town? do they have a free pool or a pool at all? do the tracks provide walkers? so yes, it is awfully fair to trainers and owners in the country and some provincial tracks to let city boys come and get their spoils. Not. 

robbing locals of seeing town horses that can't win in town? jockeys? trainers? pull the other one... I am sure they would much prefer a local won the local races any day of the week 

and as for charity - I am sorry, the day BOBS contributions got capped when it came to stallion fees? what do we call that?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2015 at 11:48pm
Sun Oct 4th 2500m Bart Cummings G3 $300k
Wed Oct 21st 2400m Geelong Cup G3 $300k
Wed Oct 28th 2400m Bendigo Cup G3 $300k
Sat Oct 31st 2500m Lexus Stakes G3 $300k

All of these races meet the first ballot clause for the Melbourne Cup, but only the Bart Cummings & Lexus winners are exempt from ballot.

Last Tuesday's news from Racing.com featured this story on the boost in prize money for the Cranbourne, Bendigo & Ballarat cups to $300k - in line with the Geelong Cup. 

For Bendigo Jockey Club chief executive Jason Paech, it ensures the Bendigo Cup becomes more attractive as a lead-up run to the Melbourne Cup.

“The Bendigo Jockey Club has worked hard to come to this exciting point where the Jayco Bendigo Cup is positioned to be a legitimate option for horses aiming for the Emirates Melbourne Cup, now as a Group 3 race with the lure of a $300,000 purse,” Paech said.

“We sincerely thank Racing Victoria and Country Racing Victoria for working with us and investing in the proud history of our great race.”

I think Mr Paech is kidding himself. The Geelong Cup might benefit from the Bart Cummings boost as a win, on the back of a worthy performance in the Bart, might actually earn a decent penalty. Never in a million years would a Bendigo Cup winner earn a Cup-altering penalty.

The second-chance 'bonus' on offer in the Queen Elizabeth has had more of an impact on the Bendigo Cup status than the actual date of the race. Basically, Bendigo's feature race day is feeding off the scraps of a G2 'repêchage'.

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