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VIC Racing doomed!

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Bonjour View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 8:49am
How long before VIC becomes another New Zealand? 48 2yo nominated for the poly track [last start coral] on Thursday.........for how long will owners will tolerate not getting a run? What are owners who have limited ability horses meant to do?  Shoot them?

So while the top echelon of owners/breeders are creaming the sugar hit at the top of the tree, the backbone breed to race are left to make a tough decision - to keep their horses in Victoria or move to NSW...where they at least there a race meetings that cater for them....
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TJMitchell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 9:31am
It's a real thrill when your horse gets balloted out of a BM58 race by 9 horses rated 59+
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Second Chance View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 9:56am
There are 24 2yo races progammed in Vic for July alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkyDancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 10:46am
Story of my life
Try having a 1 start Maiden for an unlucky 5th, beaten less than a length.
Balloted out in a split race of 12+4em.
Still missed a run by 8 horses.
Was over 80 nominations , 57 final acceptances!!!

1600m country Vic Maiden on TURF

I refuse to nominate for Synthetic



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 10:48am
Synthetic

In saying that, I have a runner on it today
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 10:50am
Should be running on the turf more.
Too many horses trying to find runs on it because they have (shock horror) wet trackers in work during winter but all they do is program synthetic 4 days this week!!

Joke
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 10:54am
Over the next 7 days
Just THREE turf meetings in Vic and one being a city Sat.

Cranbourne on Wed and Moe on Sat. Absolutely nothing for those west of Melbourne.

What about tracks like Casterton, Horsham, Camperdown, Hamilton, Swan Hill just to name a few. All good old fashioned WINTER tracks but not a race meeting in site.
Who ever does the programming is an imbecile
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Xavier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 10:57am
Approx 30 Victorian horses in at Albury today
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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marble View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 12:46pm
i can't believe the noms for provincial racing in Vic , sometimes 90 noms for benchmark races. Must make it so difficult for owners and trainers

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Venus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by marble marble wrote:

i can't believe the noms for provincial racing in Vic , sometimes 90 noms for benchmark races. Must make it so difficult for owners and trainers



It’s a nightmare, especially trying to get a stayer fit if it keeps getting balloted out. Have reduced my ownership interests considerably in Vic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by Xavier Xavier wrote:

Should be running on the turf more.
Too many horses trying to find runs on it because they have (shock horror) wet trackers in work during winter but all they do is program synthetic 4 days this week!!  Joke

The last seven meetings have all been on turf.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 3:18pm
They’re listening.
Extra turf meeting for Sunday at Wangaratta
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Venus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by Xavier Xavier wrote:

They’re listening.
Extra turf meeting for Sunday at Wangaratta


Sort of. It’s actually just a replacement for the lost Wodonga meeting, with those horses getting ballot priority. Nothing extra for the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 4:19pm
Non-metrop Victorian races July:     19 Turf (70%)     8 synthetic(30%)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 4:29pm
That maybe true Venus.
But it’s better than nothin
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 4:45pm
Statistics for July.

7 out of every 10 meetings in July are on turf.  What's to complain about?

Here's the regional distribution. What's to complain about?

Gippsland 7
Central 6
South-West (incl Ballarat) 6
North/North East 4
North-West 4

24 2yo races are programmed for July. What's to complain about?

There are plenty of additional opportunities for 2yo's in July, as any number are running in and frequently winning open age maidens against rising 4yo's and older who've already had their opportunities.  What's to complain about?

51 BM58's are programmed for July.  What's to complain about? 

Can understand people's annoyance at getting balloted out, however that's hardly a race programming problem imo.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Venus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 5:09pm
We lose all the picnic, non tabs and 30% of turf meeting come winter.

That’s an awful lot less meetings for turf horses!

When you’re getting 500 noms for 8 races on the turf, clearly there’s an issue.

I have a maiden who has placed at 2 of her last 3 starts and she’s missed out on 3 races due to balloting. I’m selling her now. No point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Venus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 5:11pm
Also - getting balloted out is clearly a programming issue. If we have too many maidens or 58 raters missing runs (was the same last winter) then clearly more of these races need to be programmed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 5:20pm
That’s all well and good but it’s not working.
Owners are missing out because of poor scheduling and poor planning.
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by Xavier Xavier wrote:

That’s all well and good but it’s not working.
Owners are missing out because of poor scheduling and poor planning.

That's simply not true.

To repeat:

QUOTE

7 out of every 10 meetings in July are on turf.  What's to complain about?

Here's the regional distribution. What's to complain about?

Gippsland 7 Central 6
South-West (incl Ballarat) 6 North/North East 4
North-West 4

24 2yo races are programmed for July. What's to complain about?  There are plenty of additional opportunities for 2yo's in July, as any number are running in and frequently winning open age maidens against rising 4yo's and older who've already had their opportunities.  What's to complain about?

51 BM58's are programmed for July.  What's to complain about?" UNQUOTE
 
And furthermore, BM58's represent approximately 2 races per country meeting, whilst maidens represent approximately 3 which adds up to 5 races per 7-8 race card. That provides opportunity imo.

So the problem isn't poor scheduling or programming, rather too many horses in training if they can't get a run with 8 races including 5 maiden/BM58's programmed on seven country meetings each and every week.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 5:49pm
I did read that.
And I’ll say it again

The system is NOT WORKING
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 5:53pm
There you go sc says too many horses in training.

Too bad if you are an owner paying training fees

after having made the initial purchase, or bred.

Back to agistment? Another costly exercise. Ok if you have your own property. Happy days!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 5:54pm
Many of us appreciate your input Xav, so please explain just how the system should be reworked to overcome perceived inadequacies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 5:56pm
Do they run maidens in the city?

They do that in Perth; at least clears backlogs and also keeps people interested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 7:30pm
I appreciate it's a nightmare for owners in Victoria, but another way to look at it is that racing is very healthy in the state. In Sydney they are battling to fill races.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 8:21am
I started the thread and most of you contributing 'get it', and your input is valuable and learned! Sadly, some don't get it, hang your heads in shame then as its that attitude that prompts the failures at RVL to continue on their merry way.

I could have sent my horses to VIC, they would have gained runs due to their rating points, but I wont support VIC until there is a clean out. Support grass roots, bring back lower tier racing and can the stupid synthetic tracks or at least limit them. Maintain and support good country clubs, most owners will support and understand diminished prize money for R58 and maidens at these meetings, a good business model and associated forward projections, it's all we ask for.

I can guarantee jockeys who otherwise would be sitting at home, or playing golf would jump at the chance of a bush meeting or non tab when Flem/Cau/Snd are racing for 135k min stakes, why not cut them to 125k and run a meeting with 8 races for 10k each.......easy peasy, everyone wins, but nah, not RVL.......a sad lot, not for the betterment of racing at all, just protecting an easy job with nice salaries.....a lot of horses would not die maidens, and a lot of owners/breeders would reinvest in our beloved industry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adolphus twirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 11:13pm
I agree Bonjour. I gave a number of horses in Vic and this week for example the State is awash with synthetic track meetings and owners struggling to get runs in low rung races on turf. Despite the criticism of Qld racing their non tab meetings are thriving despite central and northern qld economy being near in a recession. In Vic they struggle to get 2000 people at a city meeting yet during the picnic season strong fields for $2000 races and 2000 plus paying visitors. There are numerous dormant turf tracks in Vic which could accommodate strong non tab racing. Traralgon Colac Casterton Burrumbeet Great Western Edenhope. They have tab meetings once in a blue moon. I am sure a. $8000 race to the maiden winner would attract a capacity field.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:04pm
Makes sense. It does seem as though there aren't enough lower graded races being run.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:44pm
The Vic country calendar is awash with maidens, BM58's and 64's.  There's an average of seven country meetings providing close to 60 races for over 700 gallopers week in week out twelve months of the year.

However as stated, horses are still being balloted out.  The problem isn't programming imo, but rather the considerable number of horses in work which in itself would appear to suggest the need for more meetings.

I'd suggest one answer would be to hold a weekly country meeting, preferably covered by TAB (otherwise fields would be limited to eight in number) and be restricted to horses whose trainers are domiciled in the country and no-where else, like a reverse of the Highway concept in NSW.  That would at least give an additional 100 horses a chance each week.

Just scratching the surface, however the reality is that country racing in Victoria is absolutely booming.  Rather more to the point imo, it appears that battling country trainers and their clients are currently the ones who may well be doomed unless greater opportunity is provided for them.   




 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by Venus Venus wrote:

We lose all the picnic, non tabs and 30% of turf meeting come winter.

That’s an awful lot less meetings for turf horses!

When you’re getting 500 noms for 8 races on the turf, clearly there’s an issue.

I have a maiden who has placed at 2 of her last 3 starts and she’s missed out on 3 races due to balloting. I’m selling her now. No point.

A horse that is still a maiden after 3 starts should be earning a handicap and running in handicaps rather than maidens. 




reductio ad absurdum



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