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Verry Elleegant
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Carioca View Drop Down
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From memory Foxseal his feet became a big big problem , the only thing I can think of , he did I think go home to NZ after /55 and his feet were playing up then , best I can do , funny thing as I think he was owned by a Mr. Spring.LOL
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Rising Fast purple patch - 

4yo2nd5-Jun-54DoombenFlying Hcp.a6-1/2 fI Tucker7.7Rapid River (7)20-113 ran1:22.0Hold
4yo4th12-Jun-54Eagle FarmStradbroke Hcp.7 fN Sellwood8.7Karendi (9.2)25 ran1:24.25G
4yo9th3-Jul-54DoombenDoomben 10000a6-1/2 fG Hughes8.4Nagpuni (7.12)25 ran1:19.5D
4yo3rd17-Jul-54DoombenDoomben Cupa11 fC Wilson8.4Euphrates (8.9)12 ran2:16.75D
5yo1st7-Aug-54Eagle FarmBarnes Stakes10 fA Tindall9.1Euphrates (9.4)7-46 ran2:03.25G
5yo4th4-Sep-54CaulfieldMemsie Stakes9 fA Tindall9.1Coppice (9.1)5-27 ran1:55.0G
5yo1st18-Sep-54Moonee ValleyFeehan Stakes8 fW Williamson9.3Cromis (9)5-26 ran1:41.4Hold
5yo2nd30-Sep-54CaulfieldUnderwood Stakes10 fW Williamson9.1Flying Halo (9.4)4-9f6 ran2:04.25F
5yo1st2-Oct-54FlemingtonTurnbull Stakes12 fW Williamson9.1Cromis (9.7)5-2ef7 ran2:37.0G
5yo1st13-Oct-54CaulfieldCaulfield Stakes9 fW Williamson9.1Cromis (9)1-1f10 ran1:49.75G
5yo1st16-Oct-54CaulfieldCaulfield Cup12 fA Ward8.1Electro (8.6)7-4f18 ran2:30.0G
5yo1st23-Oct-54Moonee ValleyW S Cox Plate10 fJ Purtell9.4Prince Delville (7.11)11-8f16 ran2:03.8G
5yo1st30-Oct-54FlemingtonMackinnon Stakes10 fJ Purtell9.1Cromis (9)1-3f8 ran2.02.0G
5yo1st2-Nov-54FlemingtonMelbourne Cup16 fJ Purtell9.5Helion (7.11)5-2f25 ran3:23.0G
5yo1st6-Nov-54FlemingtonFisher Plate12 fW Cook9.1Pride of Egypt (7.9)4-5f5 ran2:32.75G
5yo2nd5-Mar-55CaulfieldSt. George Stakes9 fW Williamson8.13Flying Halo (9.2)9-10f9 ran1:52.0D
5yo2nd14-Mar-55FlemingtonQueens Plate10 fW Williamson8.13Aldershot (9.2)4-6f5 ran2:02.25G
5yo2nd19-Mar-55FlemingtonQueen Elizabeth12 fW Williamson9Prince Courtauld (9)10-9f8 ran2:29.5G
5yo1st26-Mar-55FlemingtonCarbine Stakes18 fR Heather9.1Electro (9)2-5f2 ran4:02.5S
5yo2nd9-Apr-55RandwickAutumn Stakes12 fR Heather9Prince Courtauld (9)11-44 ran2:39.25H
5yo8th11-Apr-55RandwickSydney Cup16 fR Heather8.13Talisman (7.5)4-1 ef14 ran3:29.5G
6yo4th3-Sep-55CaulfieldMemsie Stakes9 fW Williamson9.1Coppice (9.1)11-28 ran1:56.5H
6yo4th17-Sep-55FlemingtonCraiglee Stakes10 fW Williamson9.1Cromis (9.4)11-212 ran2:06.75S
6yo2nd DH29-Sep-55CaulfieldUnderwood Stakes10 fW Williamson9.1Cromis (9.4)2-1f8 ran2:05.5G
6yo2nd1-Oct-55FlemingtonTurnbull Stakes12 fW Williamson9.1Redcraze (9.1)5-4f5 ran2:43.25G
6yo1st8-Oct-55CaulfieldHerbert Power Hcp12 fW Williamson9.8Fighting Force (8.2)5-2f10 ran2:33.75G
6yo2nd12-Oct-55CaulfieldCaulfield Stakes9 fW Williamson9.1Prince Courtauld (9.4)9-211 ran1:52.5G
6yo1st15-Oct-55CaulfieldCaulfield Cup12 fW Williamson9.1Ray Ribbon (8.11)11-220 ran2:29.25G
6yo6th22-Oct-55Moonee ValleyW S Cox Plate10 fW Williamson9.4Kingster (7.11)6-4f8 ran2:04.4G
6yo1st29-Oct-55FlemingtonMackinnon Stakes10 fW Williamson9.1Ray Ribbon (9)7-46 ran02:04.0
6yo2nd1-Nov-55FlemingtonMelbourne Cup16 fW Williamson10Toparoa (7.8)2-1f23 ran3:28.25Hold
6yo1st5-Nov-55FlemingtonFisher Plate12 fW Williamson9.2Ray Ribbon (9)9-10f6 ran2:31.25G
6yo11th30-Jan-56Moonee ValleyWilliam Reid Stakesa6 fW Williamson9.7Joda Boy (7.7)10-112 ran1:11.5F
6yo1st4-Feb-56Moonee ValleyC F Orr Stakes8 fW Williamson8.12The Orb (8.12)3-16 ran1:37.8G
6yo1st11-Feb-56FlemingtonBlamey Stakes10 fW Williamson9.2Sailor's Guide (8.3)4-7f5 ran2:10.5G
reductio ad absurdum
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I have looked at the Doomben 10K and Cup double dates on their race books , 10K on the 3rd and Cup a week later on the 10th, just google Doomben 10K and tap on the race books for verification, I don't think V.E. would mind being mentioned in the same company Foxseal. Smile
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Thanks for the info guys.  Still left wondering:

1. Did he contest the Cox Plate or either Cups in 1956?  He was still in work as late at mid-Nov 1956.

2. What was the Pentathlon Stakes?  From this article it was also Eclipse Stakes day at Caulfield.  Must have been a serious race given both Rising Fast & Sailors Guide were lining up!
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the 7 year old Rising Fast - 

7yo6th18-Aug-56FlemingtonListon Stakes7 fW Williamson9Cyklon King (9)25-115 ran1:29.5G
7yo1st1-Sep-56CaulfieldMemsie Stakes9 fW Williamson9.1Sailor's Guide (9)11-49 ran1:54.75G
7yo5th15-Sep-56FlemingtonCraiglee Stakesa10 fW Williamson9.4Sailor's Guide (9)8-11f11 ran2:08.5G
7yo6th27-Sep-56CaulfieldUnderwood Stakes10 fW Williamson9.1Ray Ribbon (9.4)5-29 ran2:03.75G
7yo2nd17-Oct-56CaulfieldCaulfield Stakes9 fW Williamson9.1Redcraze (9.1)12-111 ran1:52.25Hold
7yo2nd27-Oct-56Moonee ValleyW S Cox Plate10 fW Williamson9.4Ray Ribbon (9.4)7-4f10 ran2:04.9G
7yo5th3-Nov-56FlemingtonMackinnon Stakes10 fW Williamson9.3Sir William (9.3)5-26 ran2:07.5G
7yo5th6-Nov-56FlemingtonMelbourne Cup16 fW Williamson9.8Evening Peal (8)8-122 ran3:19.5F
7yo4th10-Nov-56CaulfieldPentathlon Stakes12 fW Williamson9.8Sailor's Guide (8.8)9-4f13 ran2:31.75D
7yo5th17-Nov-56FlemingtonFisher Plate12 fW Williamson9.5Sailor's Guide (9)6-16 ran2:31.75D
reductio ad absurdum
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That was the only running of the race Foxseal. 

VATC Pentathlon Stakes Race Winners
handicap
Only run once in 1957
YearWinnerStatusDistance
1957Sailor's Guide (AUS) 1952Principal race12F
reductio ad absurdum
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Of course the Pentathlon Stakes obviously had something to do with the Melbourne Olympics of 1956. 
reductio ad absurdum
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Great stuff djebel Clap

Looks like he was still a contender that 1956 spring but had dropped a few notches in form & eclipsed by a few younger ones like Sailors Guide & Ray Ribbon.
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Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

You seem to have become very keen on handicaps lately, djebel.Tongue

In a perfect world of course, she would be in France. 

She would run a good top 5 or 6 I think. Maybe top 7.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Hey Jamal, Sharkie talking about you on the radio this morning LOL
Time is a flat circle
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Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

Hey Jamal, Sharkie talking about you on the radio this morning LOL

Really? What did he say?
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode/905962

Listen from 3min 30sec
Time is a flat circle
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Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode/905962

Listen from 3min 30sec

I listened to it. He didn't make a direct reference to me but he did mention ratings and how they differ from his view about VE and I told him about the ratings so he is mentioning me. Oh well.

Anyway news just in - Timeform rating of 119 for VE for winning G1 George Main Stakes
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Yeah, was in a round about way but for sure referring to you  LOL
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Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

Yeah, was in a round about way but for sure referring to you  LOL

Absolutely he was referring to me. The fact is that more often then not ratings don't lie. 

https://www.racingandsports.com/news/timeform/timeform-news/2021-09-20/timeform-recap-2021-george-main-stakes/560042

Have a read of the article:

Verry Elleegant - 119 (G1 George Main Stakes - 1600m)

Eduardo - 125 (G2 Shorts Stakes - 1100m)

Sierra Sue - 115 (G1 Sir Rupert Clarke Stakes - 115)
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Verry Elleegant is "rating" 119 at trip 800m below her best trip.

Eduardo is "rating" 125 at or near his perfect trip. 
reductio ad absurdum
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"Meaningless" is the word that immediately comes to mind.
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I will not go that far. The individuals that come up with the ratings put a lot of work and effort into their conclusions, But I am sceptical, more because I do not know how they come to their conclusions. 
reductio ad absurdum
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I suggest you ask mate.

Angry


Edited by Gay3 - 20 Sep 2021 at 11:14pm
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

"Meaningless" is the word that immediately comes to mind.

Why is it meaningless? Ratings assess a horses performance in races plus using the eye test too.
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They do not give you their algorithm. 
reductio ad absurdum
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Djebel - if you're referring to their methodology? Yes I agree. But they won't tell because its probably copyright and other bits and pieces. I assume the formal is punched into an Excel spreadsheet and they go from there.

Having said that, I still follow and trust Timeform
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https://www.racingandsports.com/news/timeform/timeform-news/2021-09-20/timeform-recap-2021-george-main-stakes/560042
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Did you know that Bob Peters has the 3 yo full brother, a gelding, Affluential.
Trialed first time Monday, 9th of 10,15 lengths off.
Grant and Alana and William.
bobs comment? he is a stayer.
Big smile
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[TUBE]https://cris.rwwa.com.au/JwPlayer.aspx?jw=JnJlcGxheVVybD1odHRwOi8vcGxheWVyLnZpbWVvLmNvbS9leHRlcm5hbC82MDk0Njk5NjQuaGQubXA0P3M9ZGYyNjVlNjI1MDc4MDVmNjJiYzkxMzUwZGZjODI4MGY3OGJhZDkyZCZwcm9maWxlX2lkPTE3NCZvYXV0aDJfdG9rZW5faWQ9ODk5NjI4Nzc3JnZlbnVlPUxBUksmcmFjZURhdGU9MjAyMS0wOS0yMCZyYWNlTnVtPTE0[/TUBE]
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So , with the Hill Stakes now worth 1 Mill. but remains a G2 at Rosehill next Saturday it now clashes with the Turnbull G1 , so what does Waller do for VE. ? maybe no clash with Incentivise .
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She'd go for the Hill Stakes I'd assume.

Prize money is probably not the issue but she gets a slightly easier race carrying WFA rather than the penalties she will carry down there.

Another Group 1 is meaningless and the prize money is not much more down south.

My opinion - she stays in Sydney.

My vote - She goes to Melbourne. 

Smile
reductio ad absurdum
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By the way.

She should be in France. 
reductio ad absurdum
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Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

By the way.

She should be in France. 

In the Arc?? She'd need to run to a new peak rating to win
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Thanks. 
reductio ad absurdum
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