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Verry Elleegant

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Jamal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 10:30pm
Love watching these arguments and yet some people on here think Djebel and I are bad when we are at each other's throats lol
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 11:40am
Mate I'm not arguing I'm just trying to voice my opinion as most do on a forum. I've got this incessant tagger that basically argues with every opinion I give. It's guaranteed I post something and sure enough there's my stalker with a response. Almost uncanny. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 4:02pm
William Haggis: "Meanwhile, Haggas said it would take a massive performance from Verry Elleegant to win the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe.

The star mare has been sent for a spell following her Queen Elizabeth run, with trainer Chris Waller eyeing October's Arc as a possible target for her.

"The Arc is a hugely difficult race to win, no disrespect to her. I think she would find it tough because you get the solid older horses and then you get the young three-year-olds," Haggas said.

"And usually the champion horses of each category go for the Arc. It's in a very good spot at the end of the season and it's a huge race.

"She'd be a 16, 20-1 pop."

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 4:09pm
All things going well I would 100% go there with her.
Time is a flat circle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 4:14pm
She’s not winning an Arc. And honestly, she won’t even go. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 4:25pm
2400m, likely wet track. Wouldn't get a better chance at one of these big overseas races. Have a crack!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

She’s not winning an Arc. And honestly, she won’t even go. 

It's verry eeassy to say she's not winning an Arc that does not mean they should not accept the challenge.
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 5:23pm
I’m not saying they shouldn’t have a go. I’m saying they won’t. Quite a difference. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 5:38pm
All the successful International trainers say you must have the right horse to take, wherever you go. Imagine if all goes perfectly untill she gets bumped or squeezed out of the gates or, given a wet track, they dawdle early. She's far too unpredictable imo, to risk carting to the other side of the planet in the hope she produces her A game on the day.
It's all very well for punters & racing enthusiasts to say 'send her, we want to prove she's better than them on their own turf' when they have nothing at all at risk bar a dented ego!

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 5:59pm
Took the words right out of my mouth Gay.  Fancy going that far only to cop a bump causing her to fire up and over-race.  It's been known to happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 6:10pm
I'd be having a fair whack at the $20 on offer no doubt about that. Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

All the successful International trainers say you must have the right horse to take, wherever you go. Imagine if all goes perfectly untill she gets bumped or squeezed out of the gates or, given a wet track, they dawdle early. She's far too unpredictable imo, to risk carting to the other side of the planet in the hope she produces her A game on the day.
It's all very well for punters & racing enthusiasts to say 'send her, we want to prove she's better than them on their own turf' when they have nothing at all at risk bar a dented ego!


Send soft hands Jamie over with her. An Aussie 2 for 1 special.
Time is a flat circle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mr Grieves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 6:33pm
I'd say she's about a 2% chance of going
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

  Send soft hands Jamie over with her. An Aussie 2 for 1 special.  

Careful TJ, you seriously risk our resident pedant/Oz bagger JudgeHolden pulling you up for referring to either VE or Jamie Kah as Aussies.  Wink  Shocked
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Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

She’s not winning an Arc. And honestly, she won’t even go. 

Can you name me half a dozen who would beat her in the Arc?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

  Send soft hands Jamie over with her. An Aussie 2 for 1 special.  

Careful TJ, you seriously risk our resident pedant/Oz bagger JudgeHolden pulling you up for referring to either VE or Jamie Kah as Aussies.  Wink  Shocked

LOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

All the successful International trainers say you must have the right horse to take, wherever you go. Imagine if all goes perfectly untill she gets bumped or squeezed out of the gates or, given a wet track, they dawdle early. She's far too unpredictable imo, to risk carting to the other side of the planet in the hope she produces her A game on the day.
It's all very well for punters & racing enthusiasts to say 'send her, we want to prove she's better than them on their own turf' when they have nothing at all at risk bar a dented ego!


Just wondering, how many times has she not produced her A game on the day in the last 12-18 months? Couldn't be too many. Not rocket science let her jump, relax, find her stride and come the business end she will produce the goods. Good enough to win the L'Arc? Only one way to find out! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by Pardon_My_Dust Pardon_My_Dust wrote:

I'd be having a fair whack at the $20 on offer no doubt about that. Beer


You know what they say about money & fools? Truly am  sorry but I couldn't resist when I came up with a very rare 'smart' one Wink
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 6:57pm
Well we certainly don't know who'll run in the Arc in seven months time.  Particularly emerging 3 and 4yo's.

However were VE was to have fronted and over-raced on such a tricky circuit in last year's race there's at least five who could've and probably would've beaten her home, ie Sottsass, In Swoop, Persian King, Enable and Stradivarius.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

All the successful International trainers say you must have the right horse to take, wherever you go. Imagine if all goes perfectly untill she gets bumped or squeezed out of the gates or, given a wet track, they dawdle early. She's far too unpredictable imo, to risk carting to the other side of the planet in the hope she produces her A game on the day.
It's all very well for punters & racing enthusiasts to say 'send her, we want to prove she's better than them on their own turf' when they have nothing at all at risk bar a dented ego!


You need a world class horse to win an Arc. Verry Elleegant is a good horse but not sure she is world class
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

All the successful International trainers say you must have the right horse to take, wherever you go. Imagine if all goes perfectly untill she gets bumped or squeezed out of the gates or, given a wet track, they dawdle early. She's far too unpredictable imo, to risk carting to the other side of the planet in the hope she produces her A game on the day.
It's all very well for punters & racing enthusiasts to say 'send her, we want to prove she's better than them on their own turf' when they have nothing at all at risk bar a dented ego!


You need a world class horse to win an Arc. Verry Elleegant is a good horse but not sure she is world class

But having said that...right track conditions - tick, 2400m - tick. She may well place in an Arc which would be a good effort....great effort in fact but she'll need to go to another level..the Arc is at 2400m race at another level from the Tancred and Caulfield Cup - two races which she won.


Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 7:23pm
VE is world class. 

How can she beat Addeybb and then be beaten only half a length against one of the world's top horses. Addeybb won the Champion Stakes fiddlesticks, a year after running a close 2nd in the same race to the also world class Magical.

Surely you can see that Jamal as anyone who can't recognise how good she is, does not have any idea on comparing horses.

And they are probably the same that are saying that Winx wasn't world class as she never raced overseas, but we all know VE would never have been able to compete with Winx.
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:



But having said that...right track conditions - tick, 2400m - tick. She may well place in an Arc which would be a good effort....great effort in fact but she'll need to go to another level..the Arc is at 2400m race at another level from the Tancred and Caulfield Cup - two races which she won.


That CC victory has form through AVD who has form back to Ghaiyyath, who was THE BEST horse in Europe last year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

She’s not winning an Arc. And honestly, she won’t even go. 

Can you name me half a dozen who would beat her in the Arc?


Don’t follow European racing so no. But she is no So You Think and he could only run what, 4th? And she sure is no Winx either. It would need to be a weak year for her to be any chance. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 8:58pm
So You Think was ridden badly in that Arc - jockey got too far back. Wide gate didnt help either but flew home and would if ran 2nd I reckon....at the very least 3rd.

Edited by Gay3 - 20 Apr 2021 at 9:34pm
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 11:11am
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

She’s not winning an Arc. And honestly, she won’t even go. 

Can you name me half a dozen who would beat her in the Arc?


Don’t follow European racing so no. But she is no So You Think and he could only run what, 4th? And she sure is no Winx either. It would need to be a weak year for her to be any chance. 

Well, that makes your first comment look very odd.Confused

If you don’t follow their racing or have any knowledge of the current horses over there there is no way that you could make any claims re her winning this years race

If anyone would like to tell me who the top 6 2400m horses are over there, I’d like to hear

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 11:17am
No need to have specific knowledge Shrunk. All that’s needed is to know that on the whole their 2400m racing is lengths superior to hear. Just read what several handicappers have said about the matter. Would have to be a very average year for her to have a chance. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 11:55am
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

https://www.punters.com.au/news/experts-believe-verry-elleegant-would-struggle-in-arc_197866/



Cheers, I read those comments and they don’t make any sense
 
Blencowe, the “expert” quoted was using her timeform rating* as a yardstick against horses like Magical to boost his argument.....Magical is retired as is Winx and SYTConfused

Blenowe clearly has a set against her as he then ignores his own timeform ratings that have Addeybb as the 4th highest rated horse in Europe.

That’s behind the 4000m Stradavarius and a couple of last seasons 3yos who are unproven as older horses 

If Addeybb is in the  too 4 VE can’t be too far behind which makes her a very real chance in the Arc

As I asked, who will beat her aside from the big A?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 11:56am

Current No 1 in Europe is Palace Pier, trained by John & Thady Gosden and rated 132.

Last updated to cover racing to 18/04/2021. The lists cover horses that have run or been entered to run this season, or are reported still to be in training.

A complete file of the 2020 Flat end-of-season ratings is available here.

 

OLDER HORSES
132PALACE PIER
131MISHRIFF
130STRADIVARIUS
129ADDEYBB
128BATTAASH
128LORD NORTH
127MOGUL
126pLOVE (f)
126IN SWOOP
126TRUESHAN
125ALPINE STAR (f)
125DREAM OF DREAMS
125LOGICIAN
125ROSEMAN
125SPACE BLUES
125THE REVENANT
124+SKALLETI
124ARMORY
124BENBATL
124JAPAN
124SERPENTINE
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