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Verry Elleegant |
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kavg
Champion Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3993 |
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So VE beats addeybb over 2000m in the lead up and then loses by half a length and the Aussie horses are no good! Addeybb is the best wet track horse in the world and probably the best dry tracker in the world and VE gets within half a length and the rest of the field including a few other Aussies and we have no depth or quality!
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52004 |
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I completely forgot he was 1st time in blinkers Haggis post race said they did the trick as he was getting lazy - sure did!
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Online Points: 8678 |
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Was your opinion about Aussie trainers the same years ago when Bart, CS Hayes, Tommy Smith, George Hanson, John Hawks, Gai Waterhouse, Guy Walter etc etc were at their peaks and/or competing against each other
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Afros
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15478 |
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Jamal, I think djebel has made his view on that era quite clear, they were only ever competing against each other.
On VE vs Addeybb, she improved 1.5L against him in the Ranvet 2020 to 2021 (0.5L defeat to a 1L win) and improved 2.3L in the QE2 from 2020 to 2021 (2.8L defeat to a 0.5L defeat). She lost 2.3L to him last year from the Ranvet to the QE2 lost 1.5L to him this time, suggesting she gained 0.8L on him in the QE2 this year compared to last year, the only difference between years being that she didn't run in the Tancred this year, so maybe claims that the Tancred cost her last year are not completely true? I know it is a little simplistic to compare like this but it is interesting.
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Afros
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15478 |
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So if we assume that Addeybb's ability has remained somewhat static, could we assume the Tancred cost the mare 0.8L last year and that she has improved 1.5L compared to him over the last 12 months?
Simplistic I know but fun to play around with the numbers when it is this easy to assess.
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marble
Champion Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane Status: Offline Points: 6223 |
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VE was unlucky yesterday, pulled a bit, got pushed back and then had to make a wide run. One of the best horses in the world was outside the leader and getting a good run. There is very little between these 2 horses over 2000m
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kavg
Champion Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3993 |
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No Afros,
It is not simplistic at all. You are probably close to the truth there. If we take pace into account, this years QE was run at a slower pace and she had an enormous job to do to try and catch him from where she was. And she almost done it, irrespective of pulling her head off and racing ungenerously for the majority of the race. She gave one of the worlds best if not the best a 3.5 lengths start at the 800m mark and lost by half a length. Agree with your statement Marble.
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52004 |
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Jmac appears to be a protected species up there Ray Thomas this morning virtually said he was a victim of circumstances in that seeing Addeyebb had missed the jump, he urged her forward.
Well I'm sorry but that's a rookie error expected of 3kg apprentices, not supposed G1 riders! What the hell did he expect she'd do, knowing full well her history? He then spends at least 800m fighting her, eventually snagging her so far back she had Buckleys chance |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Pardon_My_Dust
Champion Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 9124 |
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My goodness I think this is the first time that Gay has ever agreed with me.
I'm buying a lotto ticket.
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Pardon_My_Dust
Champion Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 9124 |
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They were just walking at this point as well.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45741 |
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Just watched the start two more times. J Mac did not kick her up to any extent whatsoever. She over-raced on her own accord.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Online Points: 21824 |
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copped a bump from the winner at the start , it stirred her up .
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Pardon_My_Dust
Champion Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 9124 |
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Rubbish he let her run straight up, should've taken a hold, slowly worked into a position. The same way he always does. He saw Addeybb miss the kick and made a split second decision to let her stride, one that he wishes he could take back I'm sure.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Not sure that is the case.
In all 3 clashes Verry Elleegant has been allowed to settle outside the lead. I suspect the reverse is the case, when Addeybb did miss the start and was behind her that threw McDonald right off his game. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Pardon_My_Dust
Champion Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 9124 |
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Last start he took a sit but he made sure he didn't let Angel Of Truth cross until there was a decent speed up and his horse was relaxed. He also handed up to a horse he knew would ensure a decent speed.
He was definitely thrown off his game. So easily too. He had the best horse in the race should've been focussing on getting her to settle.
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Pardon_My_Dust
Champion Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 9124 |
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Watching the replay 700m into the race he still has not found a position, still does no know where he wants to be and thus has given Verry Elleegent zero chance to settle and find her stride. The very fact that he let her get pocketed on the fence behind Dalasan and Mo'unga so early in the race and whilst she was still pulling is midboggling. The only reason he got off the fence is beacuse the winner wanted the sport outside the lead so he even had a little luck.
It's akin to watching Aircrash Investigation where something goes wrong and the pilot reacts poorly making a series of even worse decisions which end up crashing the plane. Just terrible from an otherwise outstanding jockey.
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Pardon_My_Dust
Champion Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 9124 |
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Didn't realise so many typos were possible.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45741 |
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I'm quite sure you haven't even looked at the video replay, the one with the aerial view. If you'd seen it you wouldn't talk such rubbish.
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Passing Through
Champion Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Location: At home Status: Offline Points: 79532 |
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Stewards:
Verry Elleegant – Began awkwardly and shortly after the start was bumped on the
hindquarter by Addeybb which shifted out. K McEvoy rider of Dalasan pleaded guilty
to a charge of careless riding in that approaching the 1600m he permitted his mount
to shift in when not clear of Verry Elleegant which resulted in Verry Elleegant losing
its running and having to be steadied. K McEvoy's licence to ride in races was
suspended for a period to commence on Monday 26 April 2021 and to expire on
Wednesday 5 May 2021 on which day he may ride. After being crossed by Dalasan
Verry Elleegant continued to overrace badly and refused to settle and making the first
turn after being crossed by Mo'Unga shifted out resulting in Verry Elleegant and
Addeybb making contact for a number of strides near the 1500m. Stewards
determined that T Marquand rider of Addeybb had ridden within the confines of the
rules and that he endeavoured to maintain his position outside of Mo'Unga and that
the racing manners of Verry Elleegant was the principle reason of the contact
between the two runners.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45741 |
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Thank you Stewards, thank you ball boys.
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Online Points: 8678 |
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Arguing on racing forums is good isn't it. Welcome to the arguing club.
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Magnolian Khan
Champion Joined: 23 Dec 2015 Location: SA Status: Offline Points: 8437 |
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Pot kettle?
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11728 |
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She’s an NZ import. And Addeybb is miles away from being the best dry tracker in the world. That race was a farce, 2.05 on a good track. The Aussie horses got close because it was a walkathon. They’re awful.
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Pardon_My_Dust
Champion Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 9124 |
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Many times. Maybe your eyesight is failing in your old age?
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Shrunk in the Wash
Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
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The helicopter shot shows quite clearly, imho, that MacDonald was a victim of circumstances and did. Nothing wrong
Great ride by Tommy and the winner was toooo good
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45741 |
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Thank you Shrunk.
Way before the Stewards report Carioca had something to say. Let's just remember he's has ridden in work and/or worked in stables and been been involved in the pointy end of racing for decades. So for his comment on here, which I've embellished somewhat but maintained his essence: "VE jumped ok but received a decent hip and shoulder from Dalasan and immediately over-raced as a consequence". Well wouldn't you know the stewards agreed with every word he said. So the suggestion J Mac over revved the mare should be consigned to the waste bin where it truly belongs.
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Pardon_My_Dust
Champion Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 9124 |
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If I was a gun jock that completely botched the ride on a good thing in a huge group 1 I'd be loath to admit fault too. Human nature.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45741 |
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Hint for you mate: when deep in a hole it's best to stop digging.
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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It's funny, the horse getting the biggest rev up out the barriers is Addeybb
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Time is a flat circle
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Pardon_My_Dust
Champion Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 9124 |
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Hint for you bud, when you change the subject and start playing the poster and not the post, it's a clear indicator of defeat. You make it too easy honestly, so transparent.
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