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Verry Elleegant

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kavg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2021 at 10:41pm
So VE beats addeybb over 2000m in the lead up and then loses by half a length and the Aussie horses are no good! Addeybb is the best wet track horse in the world and probably the best dry tracker in the world and VE gets within half a length and the rest of the field including a few other Aussies and we have no depth or quality!
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2021 at 10:45pm
I completely forgot he was 1st time in blinkers Cry Haggis post race said they did the trick as he was getting lazy - sure did!
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 1:00am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I have 100% respect for European and Japanese horses.

My mistake was giving too much trust in Waller getting the job done with this great mare.



Was your opinion about Aussie trainers the same years ago when Bart, CS Hayes, Tommy Smith, George Hanson, John Hawks, Gai Waterhouse, Guy Walter etc etc were at their peaks and/or competing against each other
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 9:13am
Jamal, I think djebel has made his view on that era quite clear, they were only ever competing against each other.

On VE vs Addeybb, she improved 1.5L against him in the Ranvet 2020 to 2021 (0.5L defeat to a 1L win) and improved 2.3L in the QE2 from 2020 to 2021 (2.8L defeat to a 0.5L defeat).  She lost 2.3L to him last year from the Ranvet to the QE2 lost 1.5L to him this time, suggesting she gained 0.8L on him in the QE2 this year compared to last year, the only difference between years being that she didn't run in the Tancred this year, so maybe claims that the Tancred cost her last year are not completely true?

I know it is a little simplistic to compare like this but it is interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 9:17am
So if we assume that Addeybb's ability has remained somewhat static, could we assume the Tancred cost the mare 0.8L last year and that she has improved 1.5L compared to him over the last 12 months? 

Simplistic I know but fun to play around with the numbers when it is this easy to assess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote marble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 11:00am
VE was unlucky yesterday, pulled a bit, got pushed back and then had to make a wide run. One of the best horses in the world was outside the leader and getting a good run. There is very little between these 2 horses over 2000m
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 12:19pm
No Afros,
It is not simplistic at all. You are probably close to the truth there.

If we take pace into account, this years QE was run at a slower pace and she had an enormous job to do to try and catch him from where she was. And she almost done it, irrespective of pulling her head off and racing ungenerously for the majority of the race. She gave one of the worlds best if not the best a 3.5 lengths start at the 800m mark and lost by half a length.

Agree with your statement Marble.
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 1:07pm
Jmac appears to be a protected species up there Disapprove Ray Thomas this morning virtually said he was a victim of circumstances in that seeing Addeyebb had missed the jump, he urged her forward.
Well I'm sorry but that's a rookie error expected of 3kg apprentices, not supposed G1 riders! What the hell did he expect she'd do, knowing full well her history? He then spends at least 800m fighting her, eventually snagging her so far back she had Buckleys chance Angry

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 2:00pm
My goodness I think this is the first time that Gay has ever agreed with me. Shocked

I'm buying a lotto ticket. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

No Afros,
It is not simplistic at all. You are probably close to the truth there.

If we take pace into account, this years QE was run at a slower pace and she had an enormous job to do to try and catch him from where she was. And she almost done it, irrespective of pulling her head off and racing ungenerously for the majority of the race. She gave one of the worlds best if not the best a 3.5 lengths start at the 800m mark and lost by half a length.

Agree with your statement Marble.

They were just walking at this point as well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 2:22pm
Just watched the start two more times.  J Mac did not kick her up to any extent whatsoever.  She over-raced on her own accord.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 2:25pm
copped a bump from the winner at the start , it stirred her up .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Just watched the start two more times.  J Mac did not kick her up to any extent whatsoever.  She over-raced on her own accord.

Rubbish he let her run straight up, should've taken a hold, slowly worked into a position. The same way he always does. He saw Addeybb miss the kick and made a split second decision to let her stride, one that he wishes he could take back I'm sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 3:35pm
Not sure that is the case.

In all 3 clashes Verry Elleegant has been allowed to settle outside the lead.

I suspect the reverse is the case, when Addeybb did miss the start and was behind her that threw McDonald right off his game. 


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 3:44pm
Last start he took a sit but he made sure he didn't let Angel Of Truth cross until there was a decent speed up and his horse was relaxed. He also handed up to a horse he knew would ensure a decent speed.

He was definitely thrown off his game. So easily too. He had the best horse in the race should've been focussing on getting her to settle.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 3:52pm
Watching the replay 700m into the race he still has not found a position, still does no know where he wants to be and thus has given Verry Elleegent zero chance to settle and find her stride. The very fact that he let her get pocketed on the fence behind Dalasan and Mo'unga so early in the race and whilst she was still pulling is midboggling. The only reason he got off the fence is beacuse the winner wanted the sport outside the lead so he even had a little luck.

It's akin to watching Aircrash Investigation where something goes wrong and the pilot reacts poorly making a series of even worse decisions which end up crashing the plane. Just terrible from an otherwise outstanding jockey.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by Pardon_My_Dust Pardon_My_Dust wrote:

Watching the replay 700m into the race he still has not found a position, still does not know where he wants to be and thus has given Verry Elleegent zero chance to settle and find her stride. The very fact that he let her get pocketed on the fence behind Dalasan and Mo'unga so early in the race and whilst she was still pulling is mindboggling. The only reason he got off the fence is because the winner wanted the spot outside the lead so he even had a little luck.

It's akin to watching Aircrash Investigation where something goes wrong and the pilot reacts poorly making a series of even worse decisions which end up crashing the plane. Just terrible from an otherwise outstanding jockey.

Didn't realise so many typos were possible. Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by Pardon_My_Dust Pardon_My_Dust wrote:

Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Just watched the start two more times.  J Mac did not kick her up to any extent whatsoever.  She over-raced on her own accord.

Rubbish he let her run straight up, should've taken a hold, slowly worked into a position. The same way he always does. He saw Addeybb miss the kick and made a split second decision to let her stride, one that he wishes he could take back I'm sure.

I'm quite sure you haven't even looked at the video replay, the one with the aerial view.  If you'd seen it you wouldn't talk such rubbish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 4:24pm
Stewards:

Verry Elleegant – Began awkwardly and shortly after the start was bumped on the hindquarter by Addeybb which shifted out. K McEvoy rider of Dalasan pleaded guilty to a charge of careless riding in that approaching the 1600m he permitted his mount to shift in when not clear of Verry Elleegant which resulted in Verry Elleegant losing its running and having to be steadied. K McEvoy's licence to ride in races was suspended for a period to commence on Monday 26 April 2021 and to expire on Wednesday 5 May 2021 on which day he may ride. After being crossed by Dalasan Verry Elleegant continued to overrace badly and refused to settle and making the first turn after being crossed by Mo'Unga shifted out resulting in Verry Elleegant and Addeybb making contact for a number of strides near the 1500m. Stewards determined that T Marquand rider of Addeybb had ridden within the confines of the rules and that he endeavoured to maintain his position outside of Mo'Unga and that the racing manners of Verry Elleegant was the principle reason of the contact between the two runners. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 4:28pm
Thank you Stewards, thank you ball boys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Originally posted by Pardon_My_Dust Pardon_My_Dust wrote:

Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Just watched the start two more times.  J Mac did not kick her up to any extent whatsoever.  She over-raced on her own accord.

Rubbish he let her run straight up, should've taken a hold, slowly worked into a position. The same way he always does. He saw Addeybb miss the kick and made a split second decision to let her stride, one that he wishes he could take back I'm sure.

I'm quite sure you haven't even looked at the video replay, the one with the aerial view.  If you'd seen it you wouldn't talk such rubbish.

Arguing on racing forums is good isn't it. Welcome to the arguing club. 
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magnolian Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 7:20pm
Pot kettle?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

So VE beats addeybb over 2000m in the lead up and then loses by half a length and the Aussie horses are no good! Addeybb is the best wet track horse in the world and probably the best dry tracker in the world and VE gets within half a length and the rest of the field including a few other Aussies and we have no depth or quality!

She’s an NZ import. And Addeybb is miles away from being the best dry tracker in the world. That race was a farce, 2.05 on a good track. The Aussie horses got close because it was a walkathon. They’re awful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

I'm quite sure you haven't even looked at the video replay, the one with the aerial view.  If you'd seen it you wouldn't talk such rubbish.

Many times. Maybe your eyesight is failing in your old age?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 8:06pm
The helicopter shot shows quite clearly, imho, that MacDonald was a victim of circumstances and did. Nothing wrong 

Great ride by Tommy and the winner was toooo good
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 8:45pm
Thank you Shrunk.

Way before the Stewards report Carioca had something to say.  Let's just remember he's has ridden in work and/or worked in stables and been been involved in the pointy end of racing for decades. 

So for his comment on here, which I've embellished somewhat but maintained his essence:  "VE jumped ok but received a decent hip and shoulder from Dalasan and immediately over-raced as a consequence".  

Well wouldn't you know the stewards agreed with every word he said. 

So the suggestion J Mac over revved the mare should be consigned to the waste bin where it truly belongs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 9:09pm
If I was a gun jock that completely botched the ride on a good thing in a huge group 1 I'd be loath to admit fault too. Human nature.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 9:15pm
Hint for you mate: when deep in a hole it's best to stop digging.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 9:17pm
It's funny, the horse getting the biggest rev up out the barriers is Addeybb
Time is a flat circle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Hint for you mate: when deep in a hole it's best to stop digging.

Hint for you bud, when you change the subject and start playing the poster and not the post, it's a clear indicator of defeat. You make it too easy honestly, so transparent. LOL
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