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Baghdad Bob View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 1:53pm
I was just thinking the other day when were the halcyon days of the trots ?
From my own point of view I think it was the days of Paleface Adios, Pure Steel, Markovina, etc when thousands attended Harold Park and the Showgrounds in Melbourne and there were bookies in various betting rings. Today the trots , a bit like the races , are not a candle on those days .

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My thoughts, the success of trots was always about the spectacle and the experience. Half mile (or shorter) tracks running at night with the crowd right on top of the action.

As interest declined the industry accelerated it by thinking the public wanted larger tracks and fairer racing, when the appeal was in the short tracks and the atmosphere they created.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:06pm
Went to Harold Park a bit during the days of Christian Cullen and Courage Under Fire. It was a great atmosphere and good night out.  Also to Newcastle a few times for heats of the MM and saw some great horses.  It doesnt seem to get promoted now like it used to.
animals before people.
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The fact that the trots have moved to Melton and Menangle in Melbourne & Sydney respectively tells you all you need to know about the status of the sport. Both venue miles from anywhere and I suppose it makes sense when no one wants to go. Albion Park will be next to relocate you’d imagine. I think it’s supposed to be redeveloped for equestrian events at the Olympics but surely it’s only a matter of time that prime realestate like that gets turned into apartment blocks. Globe Derby & Gloucester Park probably a decade or so behind. They’ll likely last longer due to being in smaller cities. 
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Used to be a great night out. Was regular at HP

Always a solid peppering of the elite criminal element out in force as well LOL

Yep - sorely missed.

Some of my favourites off the top of my head along with Bobs above - Roma Hanover, Cocky Raider, Halwes (I was only a kid with him), Gammalite, the little Bathurst bulldog Hondo............. 

My favourite horse re punting was named Satan's Command. Won a lot of money with him - used to death seat & won a lot of races doing so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:09pm
I’d love to see them bring back the grass championships at Mooney Valley. Those races offered something different. Could they run a race or two during gallop meetings?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:10pm
We went to Albion Park once, the Friday night before the Stradbroke meeting, no need to pay to get in, a telltale sign that nobody goes and there was about 5 people there.

Too many entertainment and gambling options now and most know them by names like red hots, crims on rims, cheats on seats, etc, they exist now only for the after dark TAB needs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

The fact that the trots have moved to Melton and Menangle in Melbourne & Sydney respectively tells you all you need to know about the status of the sport. Both venue miles from anywhere and I suppose it makes sense when no one wants to go. Albion Park will be next to relocate you’d imagine. I think it’s supposed to be redeveloped for equestrian events at the Olympics but surely it’s only a matter of time that prime realestate like that gets turned into apartment blocks. Globe Derby & Gloucester Park probably a decade or so behind. They’ll likely last longer due to being in smaller cities. 
True. Not sure what the currents financial position is - however Sydney Harness Prize money was heavily subsidised by investment returns on the sale of HP & a lucrative long-term distribution which saw Harness get more than their deserved share of TAB distribution due to a long-term contract. The greyhounds were the big losers as TAB turnover growth from many , many more meetings did not reflect in their fixed distribution from TAB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

I’d love to see them bring back the grass championships at Mooney Valley. Those races offered something different. Could they run a race or two during gallop meetings?


We went to M V to a night meeting when C C won a Hunterr Cup.   GGeez it was a good night out.
And what about the trots at Melb and Syd Royal Shows Big smile Exciting stuff being on the side fence feeling the dust in your face .
animals before people.
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Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

I’d love to see them bring back the grass championships at Mooney Valley. Those races offered something different. Could they run a race or two during gallop meetings?
Agree. I still love the NZ trot meetings on grass. Used to love Richmond Trots out here. Horses for courses Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:18pm
That showground track was a classic. Was there any straight at all LOL Easy to get a shorty rolled there LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by iamt iamt wrote:

My thoughts, the success of trots was always about the spectacle and the experience. Half mile (or shorter) tracks running at night with the crowd right on top of the action.

As interest declined the industry accelerated it by thinking the public wanted larger tracks and fairer racing, when the appeal was in the short tracks and the atmosphere they created.


That is an interesting thought.

Are Australian punters more interested in luck and entertainment ?

I mean, it should be easier to back a winner on a bigger fairer track.
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mc41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

The fact that the trots have moved to Melton and Menangle in Melbourne & Sydney respectively tells you all you need to know about the status of the sport. Both venue miles from anywhere and I suppose it makes sense when no one wants to go. Albion Park will be next to relocate you’d imagine. I think it’s supposed to be redeveloped for equestrian events at the Olympics but surely it’s only a matter of time that prime realestate like that gets turned into apartment blocks. Globe Derby & Gloucester Park probably a decade or so behind. They’ll likely last longer due to being in smaller cities. 

still no track for GoldCoast after being promised before commonwealth games 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mc41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:24pm
still have it on Brisbane show day on the small track, exciting to watch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:26pm
Loved going to Harold Park on a Friday night in the 50s/60s , saw many great pacers and trotters , Caduceus the standout , 14-2 hands of pure dynamite , 50 thousand + the night he won the Inter . In 1960 , no better venue for a night meeting imo , putting poker machines in , and taking your eye off the ball the criminal element had a party , no need to tell you who the boss was . Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by iamt iamt wrote:

My thoughts, the success of trots was always about the spectacle and the experience. Half mile (or shorter) tracks running at night with the crowd right on top of the action.

As interest declined the industry accelerated it by thinking the public wanted larger tracks and fairer racing, when the appeal was in the short tracks and the atmosphere they created.


That is an interesting thought.

Are Australian punters more interested in luck and entertainment ?

I mean, it should be easier to back a winner on a bigger fairer track.
At first glance that would seem reasonable - & maybe with the massive transfer to Fixed Odds betting - may be true (although unlikely). However in the all tote days the same percentage of money would be paid out regardless if the race was held on a small track, a large track or in a saucepan. So punters never really won more or less. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by iamt iamt wrote:

My thoughts, the success of trots was always about the spectacle and the experience. Half mile (or shorter) tracks running at night with the crowd right on top of the action.

As interest declined the industry accelerated it by thinking the public wanted larger tracks and fairer racing, when the appeal was in the short tracks and the atmosphere they created.
Nah that’s correlation not causation.

The trots crowds have followed the same trend as the thoroughbreds.
Literally, the numbers of bookmakers that used to field on a Saturday would easily outnumber the number of punters in “the betting ring” today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:48pm
What were the odds of HP trot attendees travelling to bloody Menangle.

That was real banjo playing country back them

Not much better now LOL 
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If you’d been to HP before they moved.
You’d know the crowd could fit in the committee room……
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

What were the odds of HP trot attendees travelling to bloody Menangle.

That was real banjo playing country back them

Not much better now LOL 
I actually travelled out to a Tuesday arco Menangle meeting about 5 years ago. You know - certainty going around  - money for jam

I kid you not there was not one item of food available after the last pie got sold about 2.30 pm

And of course the horse lost Ouch

I have since been to the big nights (Miracle Mile , Interdominion) as an invited guest into the catered Miracle Mile room. That's pretty good. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iamt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:56pm
Its actually harder to back a winner on the larger tracks. Larger fields and gate speed being slightly lessened leave a few more chances and should have average price of winners widened.

I didn't say the move to larger tracks caused the shift, it was already underway as you say, but moving away from the smaller tracks was a negative and accelerated the descent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

If you’d been to HP before they moved.
You’d know the crowd could fit in the committee room……
Yes I had & you are correct. Even so, in comparison to todays patronage it would have been considered a crowd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 5:59pm
Interest in Melbourne pacing arguably first started to decline when they moved from the showgrounds to Moonee Valley.  It was quick and easy to get to the showgrounds via car, tram or most likely train - all of which got you close to the turnstiles.  And punters were right on top of the action and could circle the entire track to watch the races.  The Valley was also relatively accessible but having a track inside the horse racing circuit hardly did anything for atmosphere.  And whatever crowds were left certainly dissipated with the move to Melton where you'd be extremely fortunate to find anyone there not associated with a stable.

There's of course more fundamental reasons for the decline of public interest in the sport, ones which'll never be reversed.  Until about six months ago a past active member of TBV was marketing manager for Harness Racing Victoria and worked his butt off, most recently gaining exposure on Racing.com, however the damage in interest and to wagering pools had far earlier surfaced and he forever faced a thankless battle.  

FWIW.

ps though there's a marvelous Harness racing facility in my current hometown of Bendigo, and it's    quite anachronistic that there's a set of lights on the McIvor Highway that serves little purpose other than to allow drivers and their gigs to access the training track from their stables on the other side of the highway.  Tongue



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plastic letters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 6:49pm
The move from HP was a tough one and had a huge imoactnbut don’t underestimate the affect the booze bus had in many sports across NSW. A great night out after work, with the lads soon turned into a quiet dull affair for many
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plastic letters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Used to be a great night out. Was regular at HP

Always a solid peppering of the elite criminal element out in force as well LOL

Yep - sorely missed.

Some of my favourites off the top of my head along with Bobs above - Roma Hanover, Cocky Raider, Halwes (I was only a kid with him), Gammalite, the little Bathurst bulldog Hondo............. 

My favourite horse re punting was named Satan's Command. Won a lot of money with him - used to death seat & won a lot of races doing so.

He was my favourite Heart

Much to my eternal shame I was escorted from the track by security after he got rolled in the biggest boat race ever. 1982 Lord Mayors cup CryI was only young but not silly, I saw what went on
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True

I has a Kombi & then a Hi-ace van for that very reason. 

If only vans could talk LOL

And the sticker on the back "if its a rocking, don't bother knocking" LOL
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Originally posted by Plastic letters Plastic letters wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Used to be a great night out. Was regular at HP

Always a solid peppering of the elite criminal element out in force as well LOL

Yep - sorely missed.

Some of my favourites off the top of my head along with Bobs above - Roma Hanover, Cocky Raider, Halwes (I was only a kid with him), Gammalite, the little Bathurst bulldog Hondo............. 

My favourite horse re punting was named Satan's Command. Won a lot of money with him - used to death seat & won a lot of races doing so.

He was my favourite Heart

Much to my eternal shame I was escorted from the track by security after he got rolled in the biggest boat race ever. 1982 Lord Mayors cup CryI was only young but not silly, I saw what went on
Tough as nails - sit in the death & grind them into the ground. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baghdad Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 7:44pm
Nice to see we all agree about the great horses and the demise of the trots since they are no longer held at the Showgrounds and Harold Park, whereas when we get on Joff's we are continually arguing amongst ourselves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plastic letters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by Plastic letters Plastic letters wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Used to be a great night out. Was regular at HP

Always a solid peppering of the elite criminal element out in force as well LOL

Yep - sorely missed.

Some of my favourites off the top of my head along with Bobs above - Roma Hanover, Cocky Raider, Halwes (I was only a kid with him), Gammalite, the little Bathurst bulldog Hondo............. 

My favourite horse re punting was named Satan's Command. Won a lot of money with him - used to death seat & won a lot of races doing so.

He was my favourite Heart

Much to my eternal shame I was escorted from the track by security after he got rolled in the biggest boat race ever. 1982 Lord Mayors cup CryI was only young but not silly, I saw what went on
Tough as nails - sit in the death & grind them into the ground. 

He certainly was. The sad thing is, he didn’t need to race in that style but it was the trainer/owners tactics. I remember quite a few times he came from back in the field and sprinted. 
QLD derby he would have lost over 100m in a scrimmage and came rattling home in a massive effort.
I’ve got no doubt if driven and train3d by Vin Knight and his dad, he would have beaten Poppy many more timesOuch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 9:50pm
Had some beauty's in my early days , Captain Sandy , Ribands , Uncle Joe , Fettle , Sibelia , Sparkling Pearl , Apmat , Opal Chief , Cardigan Bay , then along came Paleface Adios , Pure Steel , Mt . Eden , too many really , anyone have a beer at the Harold Park Hotel ? Smile
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