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The Spring Clean up. @#$% off

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Second Chance View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2020 at 4:19pm

Prominent trainer Robbie Griffiths has warned that making wholesale changes to the Spring Racing Carnival calendar is 'fraught with danger', believing the ripple effect will continue into 2021.

It comes after Racing Victoria's board met on Tuesday to discuss the potential of pushing the Caulfield Cup Carnival back to the end of November.

Some in the industry have suggested moving the whole carnival in Victoria back a month, but Griffiths believes the dates should stay as they are.  "On a personal level, I think it puts too much pressure on the 12-month calendar," Griffiths said.

"Every carnival coincides with another carnival. I think moving the dates is fraught with danger.  "At the moment, a lot of the spring horses have a very light autumn because they don't have time to rest much before the spring.

"I think that if trainers are prepared to basically miss a carnival by saying, 'Righto, the Melbourne Cup Carnival has been put back or the Spring Carnival has been put into summer' … I mean it's the Spring Carnival because it's run in spring.  "If you start doing that then you're putting trainers in a position to choose which carnival they have a go at.  "I understand the need to experiment, but I'm concerned that it won't work."

Griffiths, who is also president of the Australian Trainers Association, said the ATA is still canvassing the opinion of trainers about potential spring changes.  "We are getting mixed thoughts. We are getting probably more sharing the traditional view of leaving it as it is," he said.

Griffiths said it is crucial trainers have a chance to view and dissect a draft program of races before any changes are announced.  "This is a major, major decision," Griffiths said.  "Putting my ATA hat on now … we had a meeting yesterday and our committee and our CEO Andrew Nicholl, we are all adamant that we need to be in consultation with Greg Carpenter and his team.

"They definitely need to mock up a proposed program, if things change, and canvas the key runners. I don't think you'd want to be changing anything without any input from the trainers."

   
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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2020 at 5:22pm
Obrien is the one to listen to not Griffith.




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lopartega Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2020 at 5:31pm
At the end of the day I don't think it'll matter what trainers say, for or against a change. The clubs will do what they think is best for them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2020 at 5:32pm
Please explain why O'Brien's opinion is more worthy djebel, particularly given:

a. in the above article Griffiths speaks for Victorian trainers' overall consensus; and
b. the majority of us have no idea what O'Brien actually said.

Over to you, finger on the pulse as you are up Newcastle way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2020 at 5:48pm
Despite Gai's wittering this has almost nothing to do with the dreaded V'Landys.Big smile
"Two hundred years ago, 99.999 percent of human idiocy went unrecorded. Now we have the Internet."

Errol Morris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2020 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Please explain why O'Brien's opinion is more worthy djebel, particularly given:

a. in the above article Griffiths speaks for Victorian trainers' overall consensus; and
b. the majority of us have no idea what O'Brien actually said.

Over to you, finger on the pulse as you are up Newcastle way.



Because Obrien is correct.





reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2020 at 7:01pm
Did you actually read my post?

Clearly not, so to repeat my question what did O'Brien specifically contribute to the debate?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2020 at 7:19pm
Don't put up with him, SC, demand to be elevated to the Premium ranking ! He is behaving like The Oracle !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2020 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Did you actually read my post?

Clearly not, so to repeat my question what did O'Brien specifically contribute to the debate?  


It is available on podcast.

Go and have a listen.




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2020 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Please explain why O'Brien's opinion is more worthy djebel, particularly given:

a. in the above article Griffiths speaks for Victorian trainers' overall consensus; and
b. the majority of us have no idea what O'Brien actually said.

Over to you, finger on the pulse as you are up Newcastle way.



Because Obrien is correct.


No he isn’t.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2020 at 8:56pm
Yes he is.





reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2020 at 9:00pm
There is absolutely no way, if you agree with the betterment of the Australasian racehorse and it being competitive with its overseas invaders, that you can possibly disagree with what he said.




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goldey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 5:50am
Looks to me , Peter has some serious eye lashes going on there , looks a tad like Alice Cooper's , good on him, very courageous imho..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Manny G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 1:53pm
Made up on the run like most things and no consultation just debate like always thats why the sport never grows and develops because everyone wants to be the king of the castle - embarrassing !

Get proper Intel and information from the key stake holders then make announcements in the best interest of the key stake holders and the industry.

Racing Clubs clearly on different agendas which will cause havoc with programming ! 

A grade 4 student can work that out 
Keep serving up the overs please
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 3:40pm
My understanding, is that the MRC are worried that if they keep their regular dates, they may not have crowds back in time so they will miss out on corporate and attendance money, that is the main reason they want to move.

Personally I think they just need to make two race day changes. Switch the Sandown Guineas day with the Caulfield Guineas day, and just swap the Herbert Power with the Caulfield Cup. So in other words run the Herbert Power in its usual spot, then have the Zipping Classic at wfa leading into the Cox Plate and Melbourne Cup, after all every international racing enthusiast wants the Caulfield Cup to be a WFA horse, so if they are going to change this would be a logical change as it is a change which some have wanted for a decade.

I have no problem with running the Caulfield Cup after the Melbourne Cup, as both races have become target races in their own right, as one, most Australian and New Zealand horses are not bred for the 3200m, and two the internationals usually use the Caulfield Cup as a lead in (and example of that is that some use the Herbert Power and Geelong Cup to have a lead up run in), so they would probably prefer the Zipping Classic at WFA.

I am still in the dark over why a sporting body would want to radically change its scheduling (when not needed), just to gain some crowds, it seems like a lot of agony for very little reward, but hey this is the group who wants to sell Sandown so it makes a little more sense.

As for Sydney, no wonder V'Landys likes the idea because there is no doubt this will benefit the Sydney carnival. The Derby and Oaks horses will miss the two 2000m lead ups at Caulfield and maybe even the Vase and they will either go to the derby from the Spring Champion, or have a run at 2000m in the Craven Plate on Everest day, the 3yo milers will all come up for the Bondi, and then two weeks into the Caulfield Guineas, and some 4yo's who would normally aim at the Empire Rose and Cantala, will stay for the Golden Eagle.

I do not think any trainer in Sydney would be disappointed with the changes, but Perth would be unhappy.    
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 4:21pm
V'Landys has thrown a ferret down the hole and the MRC have made an ad hoc decision on the run ( and I bet he's had a laugh) and thrown the baby out with the bath water, they should have held their ground and ignored the Syd. " pop ups" and soldered on imo,how could you trust this mob now in regards to Sandown sell off as for the Cauldfield Cup being internationally regarded well that's a view that's been long held we don't need reminding , as for WFA , this is OZ do we tell the internationals what to do ? No! half of em are out here now and loving it , no wonder that " cluster " went for so long they are weak as.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

There is absolutely no way, if you agree with the betterment of the Australasian racehorse and it being competitive with its overseas invaders, that you can possibly disagree with what he said.
The flaws in his statement are patently obvious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 5:19pm
RH, as we all know O'Brien can certainly train a stayer.  And djebel loves a stayer trainer almost as much he does the actual stayer.  So needless to say whatever emanates from Danny's gob is unequivocally embraced by his biggest fan on here.  Wink

ps but I still enjoy djebel's considerable input, as do most others*.

* that's the square up. Smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

There is absolutely no way, if you agree with the betterment of the Australasian racehorse and it being competitive with its overseas invaders, that you can possibly disagree with what he said.
The flaws in his statement are patently obvious.


What are the flaws ?





reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 6:09pm
Sorry djebel, you can hardly expect people to explain the alleged errors in O'Brien's opinion while you continually refuse, having been asked on more than one occasion, to actually state what O'Brien said. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 8:28pm
It could reinvigorate the spring if done right.

Say for 2020
03/10 Turnbull Stakes Day
10/10 Country Cup day, maybe even multiple as a showcase day for a few country cups?
17/10 Cox Plate Day
24/10 Sandown Carnival
31/10 Derby Day
03/11 Cup Day
05/11 Oaks Day
07/11 Stakes Day
14/11 Guineas Day
21/11 Caulfield Cup

I think this could work if all parties worked together as some support and lead up races may need re-jigging, I don't think the Guineas being run after the Derby and Oaks will be all that bad as it isn't like many are genuine contenders for both races.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote speedingaway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 8:48pm
The MRC panel seem ambitious and hellbent on marking their own legacies by creating unnecessary changes for their own benefit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luva Punt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2020 at 6:51am
Originally posted by speedingaway speedingaway wrote:

The MRC panel seem ambitious and hellbent on marking their own legacies by creating unnecessary changes for their own benefit.


Buying a slot in ‘The Everest’ last year was also another decision made without any consideration for the other Victorian Racing Clubs.

With all of the corruption associated with MRC run clubs, it is interesting that it the MRC that is making changes and decisions with Racing NSW.

Combine that with Queensland Trainers openly stating cheating is rife in Queensland, and it makes you question the organised crime links to racing and their vested interests Australia wide.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 1:38am
I just saw that Racenet are saying it is unlikely the changes will happen.

Just before we see the end to this discussion I still think switching the Zipping Classic and Caulfield Cup is not a terrible idea, as the MRC should be making the Caufield Cup a signature race and not having their main event linked to the VRC's main event.

Zipping Classic to Herbert Power day (the internationals seem to prefer that), Herbert Power to Caulfield Cup day and that then gives the 2400m horses a nice pattern into the Queen Elizabeth and then the Caulfield Cup.

This would not impact on the spring, or the Perth carnival ( as Caulfield Cup and Queen Elizabeth horses do not usually travel to Perth), and if your trainer knows what they are doing, the autumn is not impacted as you would keep your stayer in work and if they needed a run during the summer they could have a fitness run in the Bagot.

Having said all that, I think they will leave everything as is.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 2:45pm
RV have decided to keep the carnival as is
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 7:58pm
A huge win for sanity and an entirely deserved "up yours Le Grand" imho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 10:52pm
Good thing nobody listens to Danny O'Brien.
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