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Seriously Overrated Jockeys |
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Pardon_My_Dust 
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 Topic: Seriously Overrated JockeysPosted: 24 Feb 2021 at 6:24pm |
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I'll get the ball rolling.
Rachel King - constantly gifted premium rides. Turns to water under pressure, cant change whip hands effectively, gets the wobbles when crowded in a tight finish. Sick of hearing about how she's a great judge of pace and doesn't hurt her horses. Pull out a copy of The Everest and ask Eduardo's owners how they feel about those comments. Daniel Stackhouse - Must be a good bloke because fork me he is a terrible rider. Lazy, disinterested at times. Sometimes I wonder of he's on the Bob Marley. All his wins come on short priced runners and he gets beat on plenty of shorties too. This guy has it all. He is really that bad. Nash Rawiller - Famous for getting good things beat in Group 1s. Rides on too short of a rein, his horses dont settle well and pull and lay in/out in the run. Can punch one out hard but slughters far too many for mine. Glen boss - need I say any more? Pulls out an mazing group 1 ride once in a while and that keeps him in the scene. As a day to day betting proposition he is awful. Care factor 0%. Weak hands and bobs up and down on his horse like a cork in the ocean. Craig Williams - My all time fave. I remember he rode my mates horse at the Valley (Frenzied Dancer) in the mid 90s, the thing had a tendency to switch off when it hit the front so we said to him under no cirumstances go for home before the straight, just keep it together until then and she'll win. So of course the fool takes off at the 600m, hits the front at the 300m, the fave (National Asset from memory) grabs her 100m from home and as he hits the front she rallies again beat a nose. Just the tip of the iceberg for this guy. Constantly puts horses in impossible positions and gets them beat. Occassionally he'll get a freak run and win the race and everyone calls him a genius. Vommitt inducing stuff. More concerned about looking good in the saddle than winning.
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Second Chance
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Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 6:58pm |
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PMD you're sometimes divorced from reality, and this is arguably case in point, generalized and non specific as it is. Blame the jock syndrome.
 However there's a heap of other losing punters who'll surely rise to your support.
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Bonjour
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Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 7:20pm |
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FWIW, IMO a few overrated yes, but by gee you're lucky in all reality as you want to see bad riders? look at Japan, Korea and now South Africa, so many poor riders, and across the Tasman? God almighty, a few of the Kiwi jocks bailed out and crossed the ditch to improve their skills......quite a few did/have, young Kate Cowan for one, Alysha Collett and Jason Collett are going well, however just watch a midweek meeting over there, the racing police are invisible so terror reigns, in the South Island it's a train wreck, many of the kids riding are from Mauritius, Asia or God knows where else, and if you only race once a week if you're lucky how the hell do they improve......so sit back and thank your lucky stars we have the talent here that we have....I do........
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Pardon_My_Dust
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Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 7:30pm |
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Not blaming the jockeys bro, just voicing my opinion on these ones in particular. I really try to avoid backing these jockeys at all costs, I learned my lesson long ago. Re your 'losing punter' jab, I actually cleaned up over lockdown picked a few very juicy quads. I could lose for the next few years and still be in front. Prior to lcokdown I hadn't punted for years. I'm sure though you win all the time.
 You know I find it quite amusing how many both in the industry and with an interest in the industry see jockeys as beyond criticism. You look at other sports and it's open slather so why so precious with the sheight jocks? You can bag trainers, owners, stewards but god forbid someone points out that a jockey is sub par. My goodness. Just as in football, tennis, whatever else you want to play, there are great players, good players, bad players, inconsistent players, players with questionable tactics, dishonest players with no integrity, dirty players. You're living in a land of delusion if you think racing is any different. And it's normal to discuss these things.
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Pardon_My_Dust
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Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 7:33pm |
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Yes, I note that you took my comments for what they were. Overrated indeed. I agree with you somewhat, but then i think back to my time in the UK and their amateur jocks rode better than a few of the jocks I mentioned above. I just cant bring myself to bet on the NZ rubbish, just a lottery.
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Bonjour
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Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 8:05pm |
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Absolutely!
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Second Chance
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Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 8:27pm |
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Let's start with King.
Lifetime 400 wins at 14%. 7 from last 50 @ 14%. 74 wins this season @ 16%, third in the State. 46 winners city winners this season @ 14.5%, fourth in metro. Average price $6.60. Premium rides? Gets wobbles? Goes to water under pressure? etc etc? Whatever. |
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Pardon_My_Dust
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Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 8:39pm |
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So you're saying all the other say 85% of rides where she loses they are all great rides?
 Those attributes are all too apparent.
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Carioca
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Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 9:51pm |
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I think you can leave tennis players and footballers ( all types ) out of the equation , their not in this ball game ( pardon the pun ) and they don't rely on 500 KG horses to make their living , it's entirely up to self with no ambulance up their clacker , your quite right though it is an opinion and this is a forum ( open too ) btw ever ridden one going 60kph in the mud and the slush only to come back in and the owner says " wtf".
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WarriSymbol
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Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 10:10pm |
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Rachel King
Last 100 faves ridden. 37 winners That reads like someone outperforming the usual one third of faves winning strike rate. Also reads like someone who can actually handle pressure. Way off the mark PMD. J.Kah 41/100 J.McDonald 36/100 W.Pike 30/100 |
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Afros
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 6:25am |
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I think sometimes it's easier to blame a poor ride than admit you backed the wrong horse.
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Sister Dot
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 8:57am |
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As regards Rachel, I think we need to forgive her one bad ride ie Eduardo. There was talk of the horse bolting but who knows? No ones perfect. Her winning record though, does speak for itself.
My favourite jocks in no special order are Tom Sherry, Barend Vorster, Jason Maskiell, Lachlan Niendorf, Tommy Berry, Jamie Kah, Todd Pannell, William Pike. A few of them seem very adept with long shots. Ie B Vorster on Lope De Wolfe recently. Blake McDougalls winning rate in country NSW must be through the roof.
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“Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined”
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Shawy38
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 9:01am |
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How many of you have actually ridden a horse, especially in a race?
Its a lot harder than what it appears.
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Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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acacia alba
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 9:48am |
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Jockeys must have nerves of steel. Huge powerful animal. Packed field with one wrong step and you are down. Jostling for possie. Trying to hold up a racing beast. Then come back to an unhappy owner. Better them than me.
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animals before people.
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Bonjour
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 9:53am |
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I have Shawy, albeit in the 60's/70's........good horses in races, some champions work........but as age has taught me, you don't have to have ridden to be objective, subjective and critical......there are some pretty good judges on here, and Punters, and other forums also......I like reading their summations of rides and races, I don't agree on many opines but accept their right to voice them......It's only my humble opinion, bring on the arguments.......it's keeping me ticking over thank God.
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Tlazolteotl
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 9:56am |
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You rate jockeys yourself and bet accordingly. Who cares how other people rate them?
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Pardon_My_Dust
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 10:25am |
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Rubbish. You cannot judge a jockey on their winning records on a fave, most of those Cummings horses would've steered themselves home. i would prefer to judge her on her losing record on faves. Perfect example. Lady Of Luxury today at Wyong. Certainty beat last two starts, both the fault of Rachel King. Two starts back was bad enough but last start was so painful to watch. She found a gap but went to water when she got crowded a little and pulled the horse back. Even the caller made comment on what a disaster it was. The owners have sacked her for today. Thats just ONE example. Many more. If you guys are judging her on her 15% of winning rides (many of which are good things) then it is you who is way off the mark.
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Pardon_My_Dust
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 10:28am |
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Ever played AFL and had to back back into two players coming at 60km per hour? Ever played soccer and had a 6ft 8 african american slide in at 60km per hour studs up? So funny this industry will not hear of jpckeys being criticised. You are all in a land of delusion.
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Pardon_My_Dust
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 10:29am |
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So are you suggesting poor rides don't happen? None such thing a certainty beat? Alwys the horse's, trainer's owner's or punters fault? Ok.
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Pardon_My_Dust
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 10:44am |
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Or we could just be plain ignorant and say overrated jockeys dont exist.
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Shrunk in the Wash
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 11:15am |
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Rubbish. You cannot judge a jockey on their winning records on a fave, most of those Cummings horses would've steered themselves home. i would prefer to judge her on her losing record on faves. Perfect example. Lady Of Luxury today at Wyong. Certainty beat last two starts, both the fault of Rachel King. Two starts back was bad enough but last start was so painful to watch. She found a gap but went to water when she got crowded a little and pulled the horse back. Even the caller made comment on what a disaster it was. The owners have sacked her for today. Thats just ONE example. Many more. If you guys are judging her on her 15% of winning rides (many of which are good things) then it is you who is way off the mark. [/QUOTE] Exactly. If you put any other jockey on those Bob Peters horses in Perth, they would have as good if not better strike rate than Pike. His slaughter jobs are numerous
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Carioca
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 11:52am |
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They exist PMD , just like punters talking through their kick , been going on for 150 years and it will never change , i thought your response comparing footballers with jockeys was a bit comical though .
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furious
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 12:10pm |
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I've never ridden a thoroughbred but I've been bolted with a quarterhorse and that was scary enough! I don't think there is a jockey who hasn't at some time taken a quick wrong decision. But they have to think very fast on their feet so to speak.
My daughters play netball and when your on the sidelines you see things those of the court don't. So the same things must happen in racing. They are riding in a pack and maybe don't see the opening we can etc. I backed plenty which I think could of won with a different ride but no mostly I take it on the chin. I do know that if its a staying race I have certain jockeys I'd prefer to be riding my pick. Sprints it comes down to whether they continually get caught on the fence and don't get out. Then I might give them a pass for a while.
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EnableMe
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 12:31pm |
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"Ever played AFL and had to back back into two players coming at 60km per hour? Ever played soccer and had a 6ft 8 african american slide in at 60km per hour studs up?" Nope. Nobody has. 60kmph? You idiot! And there's a lot of difference between criticism and outright internet trolling and abuse. The latter is causing severe mental problems for young riders these days. I've ridden horses on the farm and had mini races between a dozen or so of my friends and family. They were hard enough and no stewards. I can barely imagine how difficult a jockey's job is. What hope does a grandstand mug with no riding experience have of understanding? Most have never ventured beyond the 20c rocking thing at the supermarket when they were four. Most horses don't have many gears and simply can't be ridden how punters would like at times. I did drive standard breds work and in a few trials. That was hairy enough.
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longevity does not equate to credibility
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furious
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 1:26pm |
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Yes I driven work on one standardbred my Uncle trained. Only one I was allowed to have the reins for. Gentle old so and so!
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Afros
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 1:30pm |
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C'mon mate, back into the realms of reality here. Poor rides happen, certainties get beat, the fault could be anything. Your talking about seeing things and convincing a 500kg animal to do them sometimes in a split second, mistakes happen, pressure and fatigue make people and animals make bad decisions sometimes as well. You are talking like they are sitting on a machine that you just point and shoot not an animal that makes it's own decisions as well.
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Nick
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 2:24pm |
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Incorrect R King is very good!
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Carioca
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 2:48pm |
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" Who am I " ? I have just returned to my profession after a break of 8 months during which time I've recuperated from injuries that include broken leg , collar bone, broken wrist fractured eye socket , broken nose, 7 broken ribs , fractured sternum , compound fractures of T2 T3 T4 vertebra , and a collapsed lung plus hours of plastic surgery , most of these injuries came about in my latest crash , oh and I'm asthmatic which hasn't helped , No I'm Not Cristiano Ronaldo recuperating from a plane crash lol, nor an AFL footballer who fell out of his high chair while being spoon fed from mum lol
feel free to give me a bake .
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Gay3
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 3:28pm |
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Surely the young hoop in Sydney who was flying 'till decked by Hughie (I think) back in Octoberish & smashed to pieces. Can't be bothered searching!!
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Carioca
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Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 4:02pm |
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That's him Gay .
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