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Russian Camelot

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Carioca View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 5:07pm
It annoys me when I make a blunder like that and obviously someone else lol, djebel any idea what O'Brien horse I'm referring to , AO said he failed to stay the journey and track contour may also have been a factor, a good horse I think and not that long ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 5:32pm
Could it be Saxon Warrior?

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Why Ballydoyle has the edge in the Investec Derby

Seven-time Epsom Derby winner Aidan O’Brien opens the stable doors to reveal the workings behind one of the world’s most successful sporting facilities.

To the casual observer on a quiet afternoon drive through the beautiful Irish county of Tipperary it would be easy to sail straight past the modest entrance without even a flicker of recognition. The only clue to the magic that is cast within what many racing experts consider to be the finest training establishment in the world is a jet-black statue of Nijinsky, tucked beyond a small security building a few yards inside the entrance.
 
It’s only as you enter the grounds, up the trail alongside a sprint gallop, that you begin to get a sense of the mystery behind the estate that has trotted out 13 Epsom Derby winners in the past 60 years.
 
Vincent obrien
It was while visiting the working farm in 1950 that Vincent O’Brien (right) spotted the potential within the sweeping fields and gentle hills for an elite training operation, but he would have been hard-pushed to foresee the influence that the grounds would have on Irish racing folklore. 

13
Derby winners trained at Ballydoyle
When he handed over the reins of Ballydoyle to Aidan O’Brien (no relation) in 1995 he had notched up six winners in the greatest flat race. But Aidan knows a bit about winning. A little more than 20 years later and he has surpassed his predecessor’s achievements, after Anthony Van Dyck passed the finishing post ahead of the field in 2019, in the process equalling the all-time Epsom Derby trainers’ record, with seven victories.
 
But if you still needed convincing, a walk around the elite training facility casts firmly aside any thoughts that success bred within the grounds is down to chance. The attention to detail is the result of more than 60 years of racing expertise combining to create a purpose-built facility that is designed to win the Epsom Derby.
 
As Aidan O’Brien says: “[Epsom] is a very demanding track. It's up down left right, switch back, it is the ultimate test of a thoroughbred. The surface is always brilliant, but the track itself tests every muscle and sinew in a horse’s body. They race back into the crowd so it tests them mentally as well.”
Aidan OBrien six-time Investec Derby winning trainer
‘They have to be ready for a tough battle and you can’t really think of the next day when you’re training them’

Aidan O'Brien, six-time Investec Derby winning trainer

He adds: “The Derby can't be much tougher. The best colts turn out - you might think you know the best colt going into it, but you'll definitely know the best colts coming out, so that's the exciting thing about the day.”
 
When Vincent changed his focus from national hunt horses to flat racing he set about redesigning aspects of the Ballydoyle gallops to try and find the competitive advantage that would give his horses an edge over the field. He found that the fertile limestone and natural drainage across the land was perfect for growing a good covering of grass. But with hard ground during the summer months fraught with danger for the fragile legs of a racehorse, and little room for manoeuvre in the tight training schedules for fledgling colts, more needed to be done.
 
Even Aidan’s softly spoken words seem to harden slightly when speaking of the challenges of preparing a horse for the Investec Derby: “They have to be ready for a tough battle and you can't really think of the next day when you’re training them for it. You have to train them like there's no tomorrow, hopefully they come out of it and they race on after.”

Tattenham Corner

The Ballydoyle gallops include a replica of Epsom's tricky Tattenham Corner, which sweeps round on a camber before the racehorses enter the final straight. As soon as horses start training as two-year-olds, to go down to the main gallop they have to canter round this section.
Tattenham Corner in Ballydoyle, Ireland
It took 15 years to shift tons of peat, found naturally within the farm, in thin layers to the gallops, providing a cushion to protect the delicate legs of thoroughbred racehorses as they thundered up the gentle inclines, allowing them to find that marginal gain and push themselves that little bit more than previously without putting too much strain on their legs. The grass is regularly checked in order to ensure that it remains at the optimum length – too long and it can get clogged in hooves, potentially causing horses to turn ankles and break their legs, but too short and it fails to provide sufficient protection.
 
The attention to detail doesn’t stop there.
 
Vincent set about recreating his very own version of racing’s hallowed ground, replicating the tricky Tattenham Corner, a unique section of the Epsom course which sweeps round on a camber before the racehorses enter the final straight.
Investec Derby festival at Epsom Downs racecourse from the air
‘The [Epsom] track tests every muscle and sinew in a horse’s body. They race back into the crowd so it tests them mentally as well.’

Aidan O'Brien, Six-time Epsom Derby winning trainer

As Aidan says: “When the horses start working on the grass it’s the only way home, so from the time they start as two-year-olds, to go down to the main gallop they have to canter round Tattenham Corner. They’d have cantered around hundreds of times before. In [Vincent] O’Brien's time it was all about Epsom so he had it laid out every horse when they were finished at work they had to canter home around it.”
 
It is in this group of two-year-olds that Aidan hopes to find next year’s Derby winner, but there are no special favours. Aidan reveals: “We don't try judge them for a long time, we get them through the maidens and try and get them into trials if we can, and after the trials, then if they show us that they can compete in the Derby even if they didn't win a trial we let them take their chance.”
 
Aidan can be found, binoculars in hand, firing instructions through earpieces to jockeys as they streak across the gallops across the hill, fine tuning techniques, asking them to push harder or ease up. “We try and give as many of them as we can a chance to run in the Derby, and get them there in one piece and then giving them a chance to perform.”
 
Joseph OBrien riding Camelot to victory in the 2012 Investec Derby
Joseph O'Brien riding Camelot to victory in the 2012 Investec Derby. The race favourite was also trained by his father Aidan O'Brien
 
Aidan attributes a fair share of his Derby success in 2012 and 2014 to his son Joseph, who rode to victory on Camelot, to become the first father/son combination to win the Epsom Derby, and then Australia. “When Joseph was riding he knew all the work. It just made our job so much easier and we didn't have to worry about explaining anything or telling him anything.
 
“He understood and he felt it and he knew more about them than we did really, and he knew what stage of work to be at, whether to be easy on them, to be hard on them or whatever.”
 
With a record like Aidan’s, it would be easy to sit back and bask in your victories. But his passion for success still burns as brightly as ever.
 
“What happened in the past is not much good to us because it's all past tense. We try and take learnings from the past, any things we did we shouldn't do, and any of the things that we worked we try to remember them. 
 
“The past is experience and experience is always an advantage but that's all it is. You need to have success in the future and look to the future. Every time you have runners it's great to be able to remember it, but it is the past. You have to keep striving to the future.”




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

It annoys me when I make a blunder like that and obviously someone else lol, djebel any idea what O'Brien horse I'm referring to , AO said he failed to stay the journey and track contour may also have been a factor, a good horse I think and not that long ago.

Originally posted by Grey Affair Grey Affair wrote:

Could it be Saxon Warrior?


Trying to find excuses for his horses coming out of the Derby,

On Saxon Warrior

"It wasn't to be. He ran a good race and I'd not like to take it away from the winner in anyway. These things happen, but I wouldn't be making excuses," said O'Brien.

"We will take him home and see how he is. It might have been all new to him as he was drawn in there (one) and down there on the rail, and it would have been a big shock to him.

"I've often seen that happen to horses and they leave a run behind them very quick.

"I think he was a little bit in awe of the whole thing, really. He is a baby horse. It's only his fifth run. We will look forward to him the next time."

He added: "We will see how is, but I wouldn't rule it (Irish Derby) out. He has run on very easy, uncomplicated tracks and this is probably the first complicated track he has had to handle."

His rider Ryan Moore said: "He just didn't pick up. Maybe it was the track or the ground but I just don't think he fired.

"These races are always tight - the winner got first run and I followed him through so I can't have too many excuses."





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Lord Hybrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by Grey Affair Grey Affair wrote:

Could it be Saxon Warrior?

Carioca, are you thinking of Carlton House?

Seem to remember him not quite staying out 2400m if the Derby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by Lord Hybrow Lord Hybrow wrote:

Originally posted by Grey Affair Grey Affair wrote:

Could it be Saxon Warrior?

Carioca, are you thinking of Carlton House?

Seem to remember him not quite staying out 2400m if the Derby.

Or Rip Van Winkle ? 




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Carioca View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Lord Hybrow Lord Hybrow wrote:

Originally posted by Grey Affair Grey Affair wrote:

Could it be Saxon Warrior?

Carioca, are you thinking of Carlton House?

Seem to remember him not quite staying out 2400m if the Derby.

Or Rip Van Winkle ? 

I gotta bit o reading to do lol, but fellas thanks for starters , it was I'm pretty sure an AO quote.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 3:47pm
Shocked

Righto then... better back him in everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 3:49pm
The Turnbull looks a very nice lead in to the Caulfield Cup.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 3:50pm
Great run.

Ok he drew awful so I guess little surprise he raced 4 wide without cover throughout.  Rather have John Allen on him than Oliver.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 3:50pm
He's a beautiful looking horse
I wish I had a sig
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 4:39pm
Great return and oozes class, WSCox Plate for mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 4:48pm
Yes connections are talking Caulfield Cup and why not I guess, however am right into the Cox for him also Carioca.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Rancher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 5:03pm
I thought he was over hyped and backed Fierce Impact. For such a young horse I was really impressed with the run today. With maturity he could be anything. Amazing talent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 10:33pm
Reports are that his Spring program will be:

Underwood Stks 1800m
Caulfield Stks 2000m
Cox Plate 2040m
Melb Cup 3200m

Sounds like the Caulfield Cup is not in the plan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 9:23pm
He won me over today. I cant remember a horse racing 4 wide the trip at Flemington over any distance around the bend & finishing the race off. He was entitled to drop right out. Could be a freak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 9:24pm
That said, any risk the tough run flattens him? A gutbuster first up is not a good thing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 9:26pm
Originally posted by mikey mikey wrote:

He won me over today. I cant remember a horse racing 4 wide the trip at Flemington over any distance around the bend & finishing the race off. He was entitled to drop right out. Could be a freak.

Shocking was wide in the 2009 Melbourne Cup
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Take2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 10:14pm
his Sire's 15th Dam was renowned for getting out of her ground in her 54 consecutive unbeaten wins
change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 10:29pm
That was Camelots 15th dam wasn't it ?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Take2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 10:53pm
Yep, i think at one time every kid in the world knew her story about her and "her"cat, as the story goes, she had a habit of picking grass whilst the field was positioning itself for the start, and in one, inglorious display, the field had gone some hundreds of metres before her jock got her moving , she dead heated, and won the run off by lengths


Edited by Take2 - 13 Sep 2020 at 10:59pm
change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by mikey mikey wrote:

He won me over today. I cant remember a horse racing 4 wide the trip at Flemington over any distance around the bend & finishing the race off. He was entitled to drop right out. Could be a freak.

Shocking was wide in the 2009 Melbourne Cup

Biased track that day. It was advantageous to be wide.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by mikey mikey wrote:

That said, any risk the tough run flattens him? A gutbuster first up is not a good thing?

Absolutely. Always a risk. Although I find it is more likely to occur over shorter trips than 1600m first up. Perhaps because for a horse to run so well over 1600m first up it must be pretty fit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 8:25pm
Very Elegant will be hard for him to beat in Cox Plate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:

Originally posted by mikey mikey wrote:

That said, any risk the tough run flattens him? A gutbuster first up is not a good thing?

Absolutely. Always a risk. Although I find it is more likely to occur over shorter trips than 1600m first up. Perhaps because for a horse to run so well over 1600m first up it must be pretty fit.

A run over 1600m is not as tough on horses as 1000m and 1200m races where they do not get a rhythm or rest.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2020 at 6:23am
Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:

Very Elegant will be hard for him to beat in Cox Plate.
Latest that I’ve heard is the connections of VE are planning to skip the Cox PLate to focus on the Cups double.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 10:43am
https://www.racingandsports.com/news/timeform/timeform-news/2020-09-15/timeform-recap-2020-makybe-diva-stakes/526951

Please see link above for more information.
 

Fierce Impact - 121 (winner)

Russian Camelot - 123 (ran 2nd)

Russian Camelot - new peak career Timeform rating, eclipsing 122 rating when winning the G1 South Australian Derby, earlier this year in May.

Fierce Impact - 12 month stretch where he has become one of Australia's best milers. Five runs over the mile in that period have returned Timeform ratings of:

118 (1st - 2019 G1 Toorak Handicap)
118 (1st - 2019 G1 Cantala Stakes)
121 (3rd - 2020 G1 Chipping Norton Stakes)
118 (4th - 2020 All Star Mile)
121 (1st - 2020 G1 Makybe Diva Stakes) 
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