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Topic: HousingPosted By: Tlazolteotl
Subject: Housing
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:06am
Alan Kohler: Australians can’t afford homes – something politicians can’t risk fixing
In my https://www.quarterlyessay.com.au/forthcoming" rel="nofollow - Quarterly Essay to be published next week (The Great Divide: Australia’s housing mess and how to fix it),
I point out that the cost of housing, the most basic necessity of life,
has doubled as a multiple of income in the past 23 years – from
three-to-four times to seven-to-eight. This has changed everything about
the economy and the way Australian society works.
Can’t turn back the clock
The
only housing policy that would effectively deal with that would
explicitly aim to reduce that ratio to what it had been for most of the
nation’s history.
And
since drastically reducing house prices would be both impossible and
disastrous, the only viable way to achieve that reduction in the house
price-to-income ratio is to ensure house prices don’t rise for 18 years,
through reduced demand (removing tax incentives) and increased supply
(fast trains to open up a lot more land further from the cities).
That’s
how long it would take for incomes rising at 4 per cent per year to
catch up and bring the house price-to-income ratio back to three to four
times.
But would any political
party that actually promised to try to keep house prices unchanged for
18 years ever win an election? Definitely not.
Most
people own a house, often more than one, and expect it to increase in
value – many need it to, especially young families, so they can build
some equity. Super is too long distance, for retirement only, and,
anyway, anything can happen to the sharemarket. Housing is the way
Australians know how to safely build wealth.
So
here’s the excruciating paradox: Everyone agrees that housing
affordability is one of Australia’s biggest economic problems, if not
the biggest, exacerbating inequality and causing deep resentment among
voters, but promising to fix it will ensure that you don’t get elected.
------------- Manners are of more importance than laws
Edmund Burke
Replies: Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:09am
There is a fundamental flaw in that article.
The housing market is still relatively strong - so someone’s buying them
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... !
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:12am
How about starting by stopping ALL foreign investment in all housing.
No get our clauses , shonky money transfers , limits & so forth. Just stop it altogether
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... !
Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:17am
Remarkable statistic - price has doubled as a multiple of income in 23 years.
------------- Manners are of more importance than laws
Edmund Burke
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:24am
oneonesit wrote:
There is a fundamental flaw in that article.
The housing market is still relatively strong - so someone’s buying them
Yeah, plenty can afford to buy a third or fourth rental, but first time buyers are struggling.
One of my kids just bought a house for a third of the value of the house I bought at the same age.
Sure, interest rates are massively different, but still, he’d be in top 20% of income earners, I’d guess.
God knows how a teacher,nurse,firefighter etc could ever afford current prices.
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:45am
Yes - it’s almost as if the increasing rates are only further impacting those that cannot afford to buy - whilst those that can are largely unaffected
Round our way ( lower north shore Sydney) there is a lot of Asian money buying up properties. Go to any Auction & they totally dominate active participants
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... !
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:55am
I reckon the mess has been allowed to get to deep for any government to have the ability or desire to turn it all around.
If values were brought back, what happens to the people who brought at the top who could potentially have a house worth more than their loan?
I think as a society where we have gone wrong is we're allowing services such as housing, education, health and perhaps finance could be thrown in, to have turned into businesses.
My cousin lives in Brisbane, she had to go back to work 6 weeks after having a baby, her husband worked 3 different jobs all so that they could shovel cash into the banking furnace to pay off their house. There are plenty in a similar position to this and all on what are historically lower interest rates, I know people talk of the high rates of the 1980s but they had a much lower housing price to income ratio than the kids are dealing with today. Because of this we could see a real crash if the interest rates continue to climb.
------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch.
Posted By: Hello Sunshine
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:57am
No-one can escape this housing crisis — it's coming for home owners too
By business reporter https://www.abc.net.au/news/gareth-hutchens/12002796" rel="nofollow - Gareth Hutchens
Posted
Posted By: Hello Sunshine
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:58am
And well off parents of international students who are buying up accommodation for the kids.
Posted By: Baghdad Bob
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 10:48am
rusty nails wrote:
oneonesit wrote:
There is a fundamental flaw in that article.
The housing market is still relatively strong - so someone’s buying them
Yeah, plenty can afford to buy a third or fourth rental, but first time buyers are struggling.
One of my kids just bought a house for a third of the value of the house I bought at the same age.
Sure, interest rates are massively different, but still, he’d be in top 20% of income earners, I’d guess.
God knows how a teacher,nurse,firefighter etc could ever afford current prices.
Of course many first time buyers on "average incomes " find it difficult to get sufficient deposit to get into the housing market, unless they want to live outside of our capital cities where prices are cheaper, whereas those that want to become landlords are of another category.
Those who can afford to buy rental properties are more than likely settled into their own home and will need to gear right up and if interest rates increase their properties' values will, in all probability stagnate, or even fall, then when they do sell they will be up for CGT if any profit is made.
Owning investment properties is not all beer and skittles, despite the perception it is money for jam.
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 11:13am
oneonesit wrote:
There is a fundamental flaw in that article.
The housing market is still relatively strong - so someone’s buying them
wealthy Chinese, and no one is stopping them.
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 11:24am
If govs aren't going to fix this awful mess then people buy land and lease it to others to put tiny houses on, or build more apartment complexes purely for rentals, open up land for trailer parks, make camper-vans more affordable and more places for people to camp/live. The wealthy who have houses now are a big part of the problem, they won't vote for a gov who wants to build lots more houses ( driving the value of their own property down ) yet they want to own multiple properties and charge astronomical rents to people struggling to get a foothold in life. People who have more than one investment property should be forced to sell any extra houses/apartments they own to first home buyers. The gov could give them a break on capital gains taxes. This country is supposed to be the lucky country, yeah good, if you are already wealthy, screw everyone else who wants to live a life free of debt. Just how exactly is a young person say 18 to 23 working and studying supposed to rent anything when firstly real estates won't let to young people with no references, and the cost of that rental would make them bankrupt anyways ?
Posted By: Baghdad Bob
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 11:46am
Fiddlesticks wrote:
If govs aren't going to fix this awful mess then people buy land and lease it to others to put tiny houses on, or build more apartment complexes purely for rentals, open up land for trailer parks, make camper-vans more affordable and more places for people to camp/live. The wealthy who have houses now are a big part of the problem, they won't vote for a gov who wants to build lots more houses ( driving the value of their own property down ) yet they want to own multiple properties and charge astronomical rents to people struggling to get a foothold in life. People who have more than one investment property should be forced to sell any extra houses/apartments they own to first home buyers. The gov could give them a break on capital gains taxes. This country is supposed to be the lucky country, yeah good, if you are already wealthy, screw everyone else who wants to live a life free of debt. Just how exactly is a young person say 18 to 23 working and studying supposed to rent anything when firstly real estates won't let to young people with no references, and the cost of that rental would make them bankrupt anyways ?
How does that work when Investor A has two units valued at $700,000 each and Investor B has one unit worth $ 1,500,000 ? Investor A has to sell one of his units whilst Investor B, with more equity, is able to retain his investment property.
I am afraid government intervention in to the private property market will not work
Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 12:01pm
oneonesit wrote:
How about starting by stopping ALL foreign investment in all housing.
No get our clauses , shonky money transfers , limits & so forth. Just stop it altogether
Posted By: Hello Sunshine
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 12:17pm
the Chinese are the untouchables.
Cant touch them because they will withdraw markets.
Albanese weak as pi$$.
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 12:17pm
How bout you offer some answers Bobby instead of continually finding excuses for your self.
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 2:15pm
Bobby clearly has some investment properties, based on comments from him over a period of time here,
Bobby's opinions on the housing situation are driven by self interest, not the greater good.
------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch.
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 2:40pm
I have a daughter who has got to $100K but still can't afford to buy in the Sydney basin. As she has to leave home at 5am every money to get to work going further afield wouldn't work but she can only get $250K from the bank and let's face it nothing of that value anywhere around.
Even when I die this house has to be sold as the six have part of it so where she and her brother will live is up in the air. My home wont give any of them enough to get something. At least three have a house or a unit. So three with and three without.
Posted By: Baghdad Bob
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 3:16pm
Afros wrote:
Bobby clearly has some investment properties, based on comments from him over a period of time here,
Bobby's opinions on the housing situation are driven by self interest, not the greater good.
I do have investment properties in suburban Melbourne, which along with my SMSF, provide me with a retirement income so that I do not rely on any government welfare, in fact, as I should, I pay income tax on my income from those investments. My concern today is helping out my sons to get into the property market, which without my help they would find it difficult. To buy an average 3 bedroom home inner better suburbs of Melbourne will set them back $ 2K +, so the only hope they have is a help from my wife and myself. Sure it is difficult for young people to get into the housing market, but like those
have gone before them , unless they get that bit of help, they could finish up as renters for life.
Posted By: Brudder_A
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 3:23pm
Time to live in a rusty caravan near Wodonga and know how to drive a truck...
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 3:24pm
Huh?
It’s difficult to get into the housing market, like it’s always been?
And you acknowledge your kids will need your help to get into home ownership.
This is the first generation where that’s been the case.
Posted By: Baghdad Bob
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 3:42pm
It has always been difficult to get into the housing market, my parents were renters for their lives and they died 30 years ago.
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 4:42pm
After the 60’s pretty much everyone could get a foothold in the property market.
In the 80’s anyone who had a job, and didn’t have a gambling or drinking addiction could buy a house.
In the 90’s, all the kids were getting low start loans with 95% LVR’s. (and keeping their payments to approx 30% of their income)
Today, young professionals earning $200k still can’t get in easily.
If you’re a copper or a nurse, you’re out of the market.
That’s never,ever been the case previously.
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 4:45pm
Ignoring that over 1/2 the kids have been whacked with a HECS debt of $50k, that previous generations
Didn’t cop.
Posted By: VOYAGER
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 5:41pm
I hope that the paragraphs in the OP are just a snippet of the column because if that was the whole article then the writer is someone who does not know what they are talking about, as far as the solution is concerned.
Problem -
The problem is very specific. Allowing first home buyers the opportunity to get into the housing market without having to over finance.
Cause of problem - The cause of the problem is an exponential increase in the number of real estate investors. When you have a section of the society who owns two or more properties, the supply for first home owners decreases (this is due to investors looking to buy less expensive investment homes than their own home), so they target brand new homes or low cost homes which would normally be the target of first home buyers.
The solution - Forget current homes and get the first home buyers into new homes. Offer no interest no deposit mortgages to first home buyers, and limit the prices of the houses ($450,000 to $720,00). These prices could be subsidised by the government, which already is being offered (in NSW the government will pay for 40% of a homes cost for eligible first home buyers. The government owns 40% of the home but this is a good way for first home buyers to get into the market).
So this is how the policy would work.
The value of the home $720,000.
The NSW government first home buyers ownership subsidy is worth $288,000.
The buyer needs a loan for $432,000, so they go to the federal government and secure the no deposit no interest loan for 30 years or 360 months.
So the home buyer has entered the market.
Now the monthly repayments will be $1200.
No investors allowed to access these mortgages, with the exception of grand parents or parents who want to secure their children's futures. If they invest there will be caps put on the rent they can ask for which will be enough to cover the payments and a small amount for any maintenance and the annual rates. Because the monthly payments do not increase this rent will only increase to cover costs.
Obviously this means there needs to be cooperation between all levels of the governments and I would not be holding my breath for that to happen.
The answer is simple and I do not understand why no party implements this policy, because if they did it would be a vote winner.
This policy is something which could benefit everyone in society.
------------- Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:14pm
oneonesit wrote:
How about starting by stopping ALL foreign investment in all housing.
No get our clauses , shonky money transfers , limits & so forth. Just stop it altogether
This I agree with 20000% I mean why does Australia need/allow foreigners to buy property ?All housing is supposed to house citizens and residents who are living in the country period. All countries of the west should be housing their own people first and foremost, and stuff anyone who wants to buy from overseas. Overseas investment in Australian property is a virus on this nation, there are whole apartment complexes that are owned by internationals with no one living in them because the owners just want an investment that grows in value. To let people live in them would cost them money in security, maintenance, estate agents etc etc so they buy new apartments and leave them empty, this is criminal imo. I'm actually looking at buying a large SUV/wagon in case I can't renew my current lease or find myself unemployed, at least i'll be able to sleep and move around in the SUV.
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:14pm
The answer ignores market forces.
If 100,000 people can all of a sudden afford $300k more than they could yesterday, then the market at that end will explode, and prices will go up by $300,000
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:16pm
The only solution is to wind back all the tax perks, which is political suicide.
That’s why no one from either party wants to touch it.
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:20pm
rusty nails wrote:
oneonesit wrote:
There is a fundamental flaw in that article.
The housing market is still relatively strong - so someone’s buying them
Yeah, plenty can afford to buy a third or fourth rental, but first time buyers are struggling.
One of my kids just bought a house for a third of the value of the house I bought at the same age.
Sure, interest rates are massively different, but still, he’d be in top 20% of income earners, I’d guess.
God knows how a teacher,nurse,firefighter etc could ever afford current prices.
Not sure about teachers. I know 3 who earn well over 120k. Duel incomes take them over 200k a year. they can’t afford a house
First year out of uni, the start up is 85k
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:22pm
To my mind it seems older singles are the ones struggling with the massive rent hikes and the ability to buy
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:27pm
rusty nails wrote:
After the 60’s pretty much everyone could get a foothold in the property market.
Today, young professionals earning $200k still can’t get in easily.
If you’re a copper or a nurse, you’re out of the market.
That’s never,ever been the case previously.
That’s the salient point.
I have shown time and time again here that a foot hold is achievable. Most don’t want a foot hold, they want it all
That was never the case. All my mates started with cheap apartments and a bit of help from parents.
Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:31pm
Which part of price doubled as a multiple of income in the last 23 years are you oldies not getting? It's not like it was back in your day.
------------- Manners are of more importance than laws
Edmund Burke
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:39pm
Oldies? Come in whipper snapper, how old are you and what do you own?
Posted By: marble
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:41pm
housing as an investment has ruined the great australian dream for most people.
Young couples these days may be better off renting and investing in shares rather than paying a bank hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest over 30 years
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:44pm
marble wrote:
housing as an investment has ruined the great australian dream for most people.
Young couples these days may be better off renting and investing in shares rather than paying a bank hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest over 30 years
I remember having that same discussion 20 years ago
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:48pm
Plastic letters wrote:
rusty nails wrote:
After the 60’s pretty much everyone could get a foothold in the property market.
Today, young professionals earning $200k still can’t get in easily.
If you’re a copper or a nurse, you’re out of the market.
That’s never,ever been the case previously.
That’s the salient point.
I have shown time and time again here that a foot hold is achievable. Most don’t want a foot hold, they want it all
That was never the case. All my mates started with cheap apartments and a bit of help from parents.
and people without parents alive ? or people who's parents didn't own property ? not all parents are alive or own stuff. My mum is on the pension and she's in her early 80's, what is she giving us ?
Posted By: marble
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:52pm
Plastic letters wrote:
marble wrote:
housing as an investment has ruined the great australian dream for most people.
Young couples these days may be better off renting and investing in shares rather than paying a bank hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest over 30 years
I remember having that same discussion 20 years ago
I lived in london for a couple of years back in the 80's. Home ownership was impossible for most.
You could buy a semi detached or a unit but not a house.
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 7:03pm
Plastic letters wrote:
rusty nails wrote:
After the 60’s pretty much everyone could get a foothold in the property market.
Today, young professionals earning $200k still can’t get in easily.
If you’re a copper or a nurse, you’re out of the market.
That’s never,ever been the case previously.
That’s the salient point.
I have shown time and time again here that a foot hold is achievable. Most don’t want a foot hold, they want it all
That was never the case. All my mates started with cheap apartments and a bit of help from parents.
In a previous post you told us 2 teacher mates earning combined $240K can’t afford it….
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 7:10pm
rusty nails wrote:
Plastic letters wrote:
rusty nails wrote:
After the 60’s pretty much everyone could get a foothold in the property market.
Today, young professionals earning $200k still can’t get in easily.
If you’re a copper or a nurse, you’re out of the market.
That’s never,ever been the case previously.
That’s the salient point.
I have shown time and time again here that a foot hold is achievable. Most don’t want a foot hold, they want it all
That was never the case. All my mates started with cheap apartments and a bit of help from parents.
In a previous post you told us 2 teacher mates earning combined $240K can’t afford it….
sorry, Yes. My error, I meant to attach a sarcastic icon. Like this
They certainty CAN afford it especially if they take the foothold approach.
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 7:19pm
You clearly live in a different dimension, my bad for engaging with you.
I know better than that.
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 7:23pm
Great response.
Don’t bother engaging as you know I’m right
Posted By: Baghdad Bob
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 8:01pm
Voyager posted "The solution - Forget current homes and get the first home buyers into new homes. Offer no interest no deposit mortgages to first home buyers, and limit the prices of the houses ($450,000 to $720,00). These prices could be subsidised by the government, which already is being offered (in NSW the government will pay for 40% of a homes cost for eligible first home buyers. The government owns 40% of the home but this is a good way for first home buyers to get into the market)."
That sounds like socialism to me, the government to put up $280,000 towards every new home for first home buyer. Surely that $280,000 can only come from higher taxes. On the other hand if the first homebuyers sell up I have no trouble with that initial subsidy plus the capital gain been paid back to the government for its "co-ownership" with that first homebuyer.
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:10pm
Plastic letters wrote:
Great response.
Don’t bother engaging as you know I’m right
To extrapolate on Tlaz's earlier comment, if you the median price for a house was $150k when the median income was $40k but now the median house price is $600k and the median income is $80k, which presents as a better position to get into the housing market?
------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch.
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:12pm
Baghdad Bob wrote:
Afros wrote:
Bobby clearly has some investment properties, based on comments from him over a period of time here,
Bobby's opinions on the housing situation are driven by self interest, not the greater good.
I do have investment properties in suburban Melbourne, which along with my SMSF, provide me with a retirement income so that I do not rely on any government welfare, in fact, as I should, I pay income tax on my income from those investments. My concern today is helping out my sons to get into the property market, which without my help they would find it difficult. To buy an average 3 bedroom home inner better suburbs of Melbourne will set them back $ 2K +, so the only hope they have is a help from my wife and myself. Sure it is difficult for young people to get into the housing market, but like those
have gone before them , unless they get that bit of help, they could finish up as renters for life.
So you can acknowledge that circumstances have made it easier for you to be in the position you are in now than current circumstances make it for your own sons to even purchase their own home?
------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch.
Posted By: Baghdad Bob
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:42pm
Having been born into a working-class family of 6 and if I had not the ability to calculate figures in my head on a racetrack, I very much doubt I would be giving my sons a kick along to purchase their homes.
I am grateful to have been in the right place at the right time.
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:50pm
Afros wrote:
Plastic letters wrote:
Great response.
Don’t bother engaging as you know I’m right
To extrapolate on Tlaz's earlier comment, if you the median price for a house was $150k when the median income was $40k but now the median house price is $600k and the median income is $80k, which presents as a better position to get into the housing market?
No one has said that scenario is wrong. Or I certainly haven’t. My comments have been around expectations.
In the meantime, what’s the take home pay on 85k?
Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 10:49pm
Fiddlesticks wrote:
Plastic letters wrote:
rusty nails wrote:
After the 60’s pretty much everyone could get a foothold in the property market.
Today, young professionals earning $200k still can’t get in easily.
If you’re a copper or a nurse, you’re out of the market.
That’s never,ever been the case previously.
That’s the salient point.
I have shown time and time again here that a foot hold is achievable. Most don’t want a foot hold, they want it all
That was never the case. All my mates started with cheap apartments and a bit of help from parents.
and people without parents alive ? or people who's parents didn't own property ? not all parents are alive or own stuff. My mum is on the pension and she's in her early 80's, what is she giving us ?
Your mother has already gave you what's needed , a life ! and lucky you , your sanity .
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 10:58pm
That's not the point in relation to what PL said, it was about inheriting or getting a help along financially from your parents, nothing to do with being born or gratitude, but you knew that already.
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 9:12am
Plastic letters wrote:
Afros wrote:
Plastic letters wrote:
Great response.
Don’t bother engaging as you know I’m right
To extrapolate on Tlaz's earlier comment, if you the median price for a house was $150k when the median income was $40k but now the median house price is $600k and the median income is $80k, which presents as a better position to get into the housing market?
No one has said that scenario is wrong. Or I certainly haven’t. My comments have been around expectations.
In the meantime, what’s the take home pay on 85k?
It would be around $65k.
I get most of your points but did you not see where you contradicted yourself by commenting both that your friends with a combined household income of $240k cannot get a start, given that 4 in 5 Australians earn less than $100k they're both individually inside the top 20% of income earners in Australia.
You also commented that people need to just accept "getting a foothold" in the market.
So which is it? The situation is that shot that a couple comfortably ensconed inside the top 20% of household incomes cannot get a go in the market or people are just not accepting that they have to buy at the lower end of the market and work their way up?
------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch.
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 10:14am
Average wage in Australia is between 90k and 110k from my understanding. Once tax and super is taken out its around 60 to 75k take home. 10 years ago this was ok, you would have had a little bit you could save and spend, now most of that wage is chewed up in bills. It's almost like companies have done the math on what people earn and calculated that we can all pay more for everything, anything people save or usually spend they want instead. If this keeps going, and we are forced to pay more and more for everything with nothing ever going down in price, we are going to see a surge of people on the street or people living in their cars at the beach and various car parks around the cities. This is how you start the formation of slums and shanties.
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 10:18am
its already started in the US.
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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 12:41pm
When you read that is makes you feel like the Australian Gov either doesn't care about foreign investment in homes, or is getting money from it, or is a puppet gov for China-is under pressure from China to allow it otherwise > install whatever threat you want about grain, meat or wine shipping.
Otherwise someone explain to me why Australia allows foreign investment in Australian homes ? When a lot of Asian countries for example, forbid us buying and owning property in their country.
As for the grab hag comments, nothing winds me up more than when I see this happen. I used to live next door to a loverly Maori island family, I lived with them next door for 16 yrs. They had banana and mango trees in their backyard, very very well established trees. Whenever the fruit appeared and was ready to pick it was like chaos in my rear laneway. I had to threaten to call the cops on these women so many times, they would climb onto my garage roof with ladders they brought with them, and fill up these brown sugar sacks they brought with them, full of fruit. They would climb onto my garage roof then jump across into the neighbours yard to steal the fruit. I used to get so fkn angry, they damaged the garage roof so badly it started to leak badly and ruin my tools and stuff I stored in there. Their thievery left a huge mess of leaves, with broken branches, broken fruit etc everywhere outside my garage door. You could warn them face to face and they wouldn't bat an eyelid, they simply didn't care what I had to say, and would simply come back an hr later, getting a dog was great cause he would alert me constantly as they started coming in the nights more and more.
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 3:07pm
Afros wrote:
Plastic letters wrote:
Afros wrote:
Plastic letters wrote:
Great response.
Don’t bother engaging as you know I’m right
To extrapolate on Tlaz's earlier comment, if you the median price for a house was $150k when the median income was $40k but now the median house price is $600k and the median income is $80k, which presents as a better position to get into the housing market?
No one has said that scenario is wrong. Or I certainly haven’t. My comments have been around expectations.
In the meantime, what’s the take home pay on 85k?
It would be around $65k.
I get most of your points but did you not see where you contradicted yourself by commenting both that your friends with a combined household income of $240k cannot get a start,
I did, I mentioned a post or 2 later that I mistyped and got the message Arsey about
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 3:17pm
If you make $85,000 a year living in Australia, you will be taxed $19,792. That means that your net pay will be $65,208 per year, or $5,434 per month.
Re my point with getting a foothold.
Maybe someone who has a household budget done can extrapolate it out here BUT I’m convinced that standard of living demands and the position or postcode demands are what are holding people back, quite often………not always
In Sydney you can rent a very nice apartment for between $500-600 per week. For a young couple on 85k each that’s $2500 a month. After tax they earn 11k per month.
I’d love to see where the 8.5k is being spent if they can’t save.
In saying that, the need for banks to get a deposit has always seemed very odd to me. If you’re lending 500k the risk is marginally different if there was no deposit.
Maybe governments Ps should offer no deposit loans to help first buyers. Mind you, they no longer own a bank cuz the private sector do it better, apparently
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 3:38pm
A very nice apartment for $5-600pw?
Where?
Need for a deposit?
You are completely financially illiterate.
Not only do you need a deposit, but in most cases of loans with high LVR’s you are also required to pay mortgage insurance.
Google that….
Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 4:00pm
The major issues i see holding people back from buying are of course the difficulty in saving a large enough deposit but also not being prepared to move to a cheaper area to get a foot in the door. Maintaining the lifestyle appears to be a higher priority that buying, and then they complain. It’s quite comical. But that’s ok guys, you stick with renting your expensive apartment in an inner-suburb forever. It’s quite ok by me.
The first place I bought was a 2 bedroom townhouse, 20km+ from Brisbane CBD. That might not seem like far for posters from Sydney but in Brisbane that is in the sticks. Undesirable. But the price was right, $250k in the late 2000s.
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 4:28pm
rusty nails wrote:
A very nice apartment for $5-600pw?
Where?
Need for a deposit?
You are completely financially illiterate.
Not only do you need a deposit, but in most cases of loans with high LVR’s you are also required to pay mortgage insurance.
Google that….
Listen, there’s a website called realestate.com…….go Google that……….and educate yourself
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 4:30pm
People want to live as close to work as possible otherwise they are just adding to roads chaos and your weekly costs go up with fuel etc plus all that time lost travelling is the pits...Its only natural to want to live as close as possible to your job. Sometimes you just can't though and might have to drive an hr to work, and your work is in a wealthy suburb while you live in a crappy area.
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 4:32pm
Also if you have kids moving to dodgy areas to save money can be really hard on them, not to mention the stress its adds on you as a parent with crime and drugs etc.
That example PL shows with 85k now just imagine you are a single parent, that money disappears fast as all the bills are on yourself, not shared with someone. That's me and my life.
Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 4:35pm
Fiddlesticks wrote:
People want to live as close to work as possible otherwise they are just adding to roads chaos and your weekly costs go up with fuel etc plus all that time lost travelling is the pits...Its only natural to want to live as close as possible to your job. Sometimes you just can't though and might have to drive an hr to work, and your work is in a wealthy suburb while you live in a crappy area.
That’s fine but it’s a choice. Don’t make that choice and then whinge about property investors and not being able to buy your own place.
Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 4:40pm
We first bought in 1978. Paid $42,500 when the average Australian annual wage was $36,900.
Last sold in 2016, unimproved in or out since 1978, for $641,000 which was nearly 7 times the average Australian wage.
Do the comparison, it's not rocket science.
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 4:45pm
Plastic letters wrote:
To my mind it seems older singles are the ones struggling with the massive rent hikes and the ability to buy
I understand your plight Fiddler. As I mentioned above a bit earlier but I also don’t accept that things like lifestyle choices are an excuse for many
Not sure what you consider a dodgey area but there’s plenty of nice stuff in good areas for rent in the bracket I spoke about
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2023 at 9:50pm
Sell up in Sydney and move out. Buy a home in a country town.
Plenty of work out here in the sticks.
But, If you want to stay in the big smoke
------------- animals before people.
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 8:24am
AA daughter has tried for a job in many country towns. Usually doesn't hear back. She tried for one at Orange and didn't hear back. She doesn't want to go to Queensland again as the heat was too much for her. Also looking around the country towns the prices went up with people working from home opting out of city life. All that meant was many locals couldn't find rental or housing. Sorry that doesn't alway work either.
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 9:09am
That’s the point furious. It’s never been easy and certainly not easy for everyone.
Posted By: Hello Sunshine
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 10:16am
Australians are so soft.
Easy looked after by the government.
No wonder refugees and immigrants can make a go of this country.
Will go wherever aussies wont and dont.
And what of the indigenous who HAVE to stay on country...no jobs out there sport, not unless you train up and become what your communities need.
I was doing doing work eg working in market gardens, orchards, 40 odd years ago.
now, where are the australian youth to work?
Posted By: Hello Sunshine
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 10:17am
Look at vision of yesteryear, many fit slim australians.
Nowadays same is hard to spot amongst a sea of fatties, and mentally damaged.....
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 11:08am
Fruit and vegetable harvest in this country is nearly exclusively done by a combination of European and Asian backpackers alongside workers in the pacific islands labour scheme, younger Australians for whatever reason, don't seem to have the drive or desire to get out and do this work.
I'm not sure how many people are aware but we are slowly strangling ourselves out of producing our own fruit and veg in Australia, costs of production continue to rise, the #1 cost being wages, the wage laws have changed around piece work which has helped drive cost of production up, the only thing that isn't increasing is the return to the grower.
Don't forget that the price for produce in the shops has a fair % of it trimmed off from fruit agents, transort, packaging, harvesting and growing costs before the producer sees anything, for example something around $5/kg for tomatoes would see well less than $1/kg in the growers pocket, some produce even sees the grower lose money.
Feeding our population may be as big a challenge as housing them if we're not careful.
------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch.
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 11:12am
A succession of governments have failed to address that issue.
Albanese is no different
We’re screwed on many levels for decades to come
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 11:18am
Why should workers picking fruit not have similar conditions as those working on construction sites / factories ?
It’s not easy work picking fruit !
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... !
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 11:19am
With the changes to piece rate payment, a worker now has to be given a minimum of 76 hours work before they're allowed to be shunted back out the gate, they also have to have their days pay topped up to minimum wage should they not make minimum wage. I'm not saying farmers should get away with under-paying staff but it all drives up the costs of a production of a product being sold to a public that has a culture of not wanting to pay a good price for good fruit and veg.
------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch.
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 11:21am
Indeed it’s not.
Given the money albo is throwing at those ankle bracelet wearing* criminals, couldn’t they go pick fruit
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 11:21am
oneonesit wrote:
Why should workers picking fruit not have similar conditions as those working on construction sites / factories ?
It’s not easy work picking fruit !
Of course they should be paid fairly, it is hard work, I'm not saying they shouldn't, but at the same time why can't the Australian consumer pay a fair price for good produce?
Would you send your plastic grass off to a customer without any idea of what they will pay? Thats what farmers are expected to do.
------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch.
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 11:41am
Speaking of good produce I just want to buy a nectarine or plum that I can eat straight away rather than having to wait a week
Posted By: Hello Sunshine
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 11:56am
I dont bother buying stone fruit from the shops.
Always disappointed, tasting like cardboard.
feel sorry for todays faminlies, they have no idea of tasty food.
Had apricots from a friends tree, just like my childhood.
So, i bought an apricot tree instead!
Looking forward to best tasting in the future.
Posted By: Hello Sunshine
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 11:58am
Afros wrote:
Fruit and vegetable harvest in this country is nearly exclusively done by a combination of European and Asian backpackers alongside workers in the pacific islands labour scheme, younger Australians for whatever reason, don't seem to have the drive or desire to get out and do this work.
I'm not sure how many people are aware but we are slowly strangling ourselves out of producing our own fruit and veg in Australia, costs of production continue to rise, the #1 cost being wages, the wage laws have changed around piece work which has helped drive cost of production up, the only thing that isn't increasing is the return to the grower.
Don't forget that the price for produce in the shops has a fair % of it trimmed off from fruit agents, transort, packaging, harvesting and growing costs before the producer sees anything, for example something around $5/kg for tomatoes would see well less than $1/kg in the growers pocket, some produce even sees the grower lose money.
Feeding our population may be as big a challenge as housing them if we're not careful.
Will be fully imported from China
including milk.
Have to help out with the Chinese economy and workforce.
Australians are a working basket case.
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 12:41pm
Don’t need to worry. Once Albo achieves his election promise of bring manufacturing back to our shores it will all be sorted
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... !
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 12:47pm
and housing ?
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 2:03pm
Hello Sunshine wrote:
I dont bother buying stone fruit from the shops.
Always disappointed, tasting like cardboard.
feel sorry for todays faminlies, they have no idea of tasty food.
Had apricots from a friends tree, just like my childhood.
So, i bought an apricot tree instead!
Looking forward to best tasting in the future.
Economic reasons, most fruit is harvested when the average meets required standards, the days of sending a crew through a patch several times to pick each fruit as it is at optimum ripeness (like you will with your tree at home) are gone, the returns are just not there to justify the cost.
------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch.
Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 2:17pm
Plastic letters wrote:
Speaking of good produce I just want to buy a nectarine or plum that I can eat straight away rather than having to wait a week
Have the same problems. Irritating. Avocados are the issue for me. Need one to make guacamole whenever I do Mexican and they are always as hard as a rock.
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 3:36pm
Afros wrote:
With the changes to piece rate payment, a worker now has to be given a minimum of 76 hours work before they're allowed to be shunted back out the gate, they also have to have their days pay topped up to minimum wage should they not make minimum wage. I'm not saying farmers should get away with under-paying staff but it all drives up the costs of a production of a product being sold to a public that has a culture of not wanting to pay a good price for good fruit and veg.
Well you sort of are. Seems you want to have it both ways. Do you think construction workers wages influence Building costs ? - well of course they do. So are you advocating to reduce their conditions to make houses cheaper for the community - or commercial properties for business ? Fact is primary producers have been getting away with blue murder re workers conditions / wages since year dot. Do they pay anymore when they have bumper crops / seasons ?
Mind you - I do get your point re those in the middle. The big retailers are screwing both the supplier & the consumer at the same time - & truth be known are probably having more end price impact than farm labourers wages could ever have. The duopoly of Woollies / Coles continue to control the market & surprise, surprise continue to post record profits. I'd suggest this is the area we need to start homing in on
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... !
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 3:43pm
Yes, Avos are always hard as golf balls. Have to leave them sit for a week before you can eat them.
And the wineries struggle every year to get staff at harvest time. No one wants to do the hard yards, not even young fit kids. They all come out of school and expect to step straight into a CEOs job .
------------- animals before people.
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 3:51pm
Afros wrote:
oneonesit wrote:
Why should workers picking fruit not have similar conditions as those working on construction sites / factories ?
It’s not easy work picking fruit !
Of course they should be paid fairly, it is hard work, I'm not saying they shouldn't, but at the same time why can't the Australian consumer pay a fair price for good produce?
Would you send your plastic grass off to a customer without any idea of what they will pay? Thats what farmers are expected to do.
What has a farmer knowing what he is going to get paid at the gate got to do with farm labourers wages & conditions ? No difference to me selling grass - when I sell it I should know what it has cost me. The difference for a primary producer is that he may not know what he is going to be paid for it - although most operate under contract so not even sure that's the case
That's not saying they are getting paid enough - that's a different question.
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... !
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 10:19pm
Are you really that out of touch with how the world works little fella?
1. I do think that workers should be paid a fair pay, that goes without saying for me.
2. A good point in regards to construction workers pays influencing the cost of building, the difference being that it leads to people paying more for a house to be built, wheras for primary producers it doesn't lead to an increase in price.
3. Another good point about Coles and Woolworths, they control the price of fresh produce in this country and have zero concern about growers viability, they put out all of this rubbish in their ads but in reality its all about selling it for more than they pay.
4. Some primary producers operate under a contract but it is never as going in and growing next years crop with an already agreed price, majority of the time produce is simply sent to markets and hope for the best. In annual crops such as mangoes or mac nuts, growers are putting the money down 12 months or more in advance of selling the produce with absolutely no idea what the market price will be at time of harvest.
Also when it comes to bumper crops, quite often that leads to a downturn in prices due to supply and demand so their harvest cost is increased because of a larger yield but the returns are diminished because of increased supply ergo decreased demand.
------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch.
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 12:02pm
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Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 12:20pm
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 1:29pm
So they've more or less quadrupled over 20 years, wage growth hasn't matched that.
------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch.
Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 5:51pm
Just got hit with a huge wave of nastagia . 😩
Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 5:52pm
Carioca wrote:
Just got hit with a huge wave of nastagia . 😩
** Nostalgia .
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 5:54pm
Carioca wrote:
Just got hit with a huge wave of nastagia . 😩
Afros tends to have that effect on people Carioca
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... !
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 5:55pm
I remember those food prices like they were just last week.
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 6:00pm
Fiddlesticks wrote:
From an article in 2018
A casual glance at the news in recent months may have left you thinking the average Australian earns almost $85,000 a year.
If that sounded insanely high to you, then your instincts were bang on. An ordinary Australian earns way, way less than that.
But it doesn’t appear to have stopped Treasurer Scott Morrison using the figure to sell his https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/news-federal-budget/2018/05/08/budget-2018-morrison-tax-system/" rel="nofollow - income tax cuts .
A piece of Treasury modelling given to https://www.afr.com/news/middleincome-earner-biggest-winners-from-tax-cuts-today-and-in-the-future-20180525-h10jwo?login_token=MdKt-TH-iqk_X9cjXSZxeiOG3E8rzjhCsMPunGUjA1Ds-60iZo3J7xeSkgpW8HBq431wT4jp9rSLqbshDW-_Yw&expiry=1528436364&single_use_token=kr6eiT_GIy_rKZjpoyYtsHO46M2dturjA2xAfw4kecYcbFMBwb7iXNs9OhRh11Cd6oiJlr7frOWGnOSCIoTVSA" rel="nofollow - Fairfax and https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/turnbulls-tax-plan-targets-middle-class/news-story/17ad2257df93adc28c6ce503a3a164be" rel="nofollow - News Corp two weeks ago appeared to claim $84,600 a year was an average income. And that, https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2018/05/28/government-tax-cuts-middle-australia/" rel="nofollow - by a specious line of reasoning , meant the tax cuts would benefit middle Australia the most.
But official government figures show this is highly misleading. According to figures provided to The New Daily by Treasury itself, the average wage is just over $62,000 a year.
And the median wage — a more useful measure — is just over $55,000 a year.
Figures from the Grattan Institute, meanwhile, show the median tax-filer’s income is just under $45,000 — only just over half the supposed “average income” used by The Australian and others to justify the government’s proposed income tax cuts.
The $84,600 a year is not plucked out of thin air. It actually comes from the Australian Bureau of Statistics’ ‘full-time adult average weekly total earnings’.
According to the ABS, in November last year the average full-time wage, with overtime and penalty rates, was $1628 a week. Multiply that by the number of weeks in a year (52) and you get $84,656.
Sounds fair enough, right? Wrong.
First of all, only 68% of workers are full-time workers, according to the ABS. Include the 32% of workers who are part-time, and the average drops dramatically to around $62,000 a year.
Secondly, this ‘average’ is the mean rather than the median. This is a crucial difference. The mean takes the total collective income earned, and divides it by the number of earners. But because some people earn way, way more than others, the mean is significantly skewed towards the upper end.
As independent economist Saul Eslake put it: “If Bill Gates walks into a bar full of ordinary Australians, the mean income of the room has suddenly gone up a lot; but the median income hasn’t changed at all.”
The median is more focused on actual people rather than abstract numbers. It essentially lines up every worker in Australia from lowest income to highest income, finds the person right in the middle, and that person’s income is the median wage.
According to Treasury, the median wage or salary is $55,063 a year.
The New Daily’s calculations, using ATO data which you can view https://www.ato.gov.au/About-ATO/Research-and-statistics/In-detail/Taxation-statistics/Taxation-statistics-2015-16/?anchor=info1#Table3" rel="nofollow - here , suggested the median income is closer to $50,000. But either way, nobody is seriously arguing that it is anywhere near $84,661.
And if you’re wondering why the graphic above puts average full-time wages at $81,843 — well, that’s because it refers to ordinary earnings. The $84,661 includes penalty rates.
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 6:01am
Liberal party MO.
Skew the average as high as they can, introduce cuts to suit people at that level, shrug their shoulders and say they're helping the average income earner when in reality they're helping only the high income earners at the expense of low to middle income earners.
There was an article that came out a while ago about it, talking of the Liberals MO of trumpeting tax cuts that in actual fact only deliver for a few in higher income brackets and in fact lead to increased taxation.
------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch.
Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 8:10am
The dirty little secret that keeps Australian housing wildly unaffordable
Unaffordable housing has a political cause and a political solution, but
its victims simply don’t have enough political clout to make it happen.
They are mainly the people born after the mid-1980s, who either can’t
enjoy the freedom and security that owning a place to live in can
provide, or if they do manage it, have no money left for anything else
and no time for their kids because they have to work full-time, often in
two jobs. But there are not enough of them to move the political dial.
It’s not just that renters are in the minority – some minorities have
real power – but the nation’s attitude to housing is deeply ambivalent
and well hidden. There has been, and still is, a public dialogue about
the problem of housing affordability and plenty of sympathy expressed
for the disenfranchised, but the majority who own a house are quietly
happy with their high prices, and economists and businesspeople approve
of the economic “wealth effect”. Also, the minority who don’t own a
house talk about the property ladder and the need to get on it. The idea
of housing as the main, if not the only, form of real wealth creation
for ordinary people is deeply embedded in the national psyche.
Superannuation is starting to rival it but is still a long way behind.
That means
doing something about it requires true political leadership – that is,
doing something right that’s unpopular. Study after study on the subject
has concluded that the high price of housing is leading to dangerous
inequality and distorting the economy and society, yet political leaders
have never tackled it effectively, for obvious reasons.
The fact
that one of the three least-populated countries on earth contains the
world’s second-most expensive housing is a national calamity and a
stunning failure of public policy. For decades, political leaders have
paid lip service to housing affordability, while doing nothing that
would bring prices down. In fact, most of the big political decisions
have done the opposite.
For
example, the capital gains tax discount in 1999 was designed by
business leaders to encourage investing in their businesses, but it only
led to a surge in investment in housing. Since then, there have been
official inquiries and taskforces into housing affordability in 2003,
2004, 2008, 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2018 and 2022.
Throughout all this time, house prices kept rising, except when APRA
cracked down on bank lending to investors in 2017, and when the Reserve
Bank increased interest rates in 2022. Policy has been nowhere, done
nothing.
When the ALP adopted its policy to modify negative gearing in 2016 and
there was an opportunity for the political class to come together and
actually achieve something, it was turned into another occasion for
rivalry, and was later excluded from the terms of reference of yet
another inquiry. https://www.smh.com.au/link/follow-20170101-p5ek6z" rel="nofollow - Transport infrastructure decisions
have usually favoured roads – usually toll roads, not fast rail – and
all the work on the latter has focused on the pie in the sky of https://www.smh.com.au/link/follow-20170101-p5c4f6" rel="nofollow - inter-capital city trains , rather than anything designed to increase the supply of housing.
And perhaps most important of all, decisions about the https://www.smh.com.au/link/follow-20170101-p5ejm7" rel="nofollow - level of immigration have been driven by the needs of business, with little thought to housing the new arrivals or to the impact on house prices.
...
The bottom line is that Australian capital-city housing is too
expensive compared to incomes for a healthy society, and that needs to
change. Merely bringing the rate of increase in house prices back to the
rate of growth in incomes isn’t enough – that ratio needs to come down,
so it isn’t a stretch to buy a place to live. To achieve this will
require active, and serious, government intervention. It won’t be enough
simply to restore the amount of housing construction to what it was
before the pandemic, as the federal government is now aspiring to do.
We
don’t need another inquiry or a royal commission; there’s a room full
of inquiries, reports and submissions. They just need a taskforce drawn
from Treasury and the housing department to go through the work that’s
been done already and come up with a policy that has a clear aim and is
likely to work. That would be a good start.
------------- Manners are of more importance than laws
Edmund Burke
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 8:57am
Have we sorted out why fruit pickers should be treated like second class citizens yet ?
Here's a plan. Have a massive big pot & when farmers have great years they can put the cream in it to cover the years they have bad years
That should help farm labourers get conditions similar to workers in other industries.
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... !
Posted By: Baghdad Bob
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 9:12am
Many older Australians are living and holding onto their oversized family homes, many with more than one bedroom unoccupied, because if they sell up, they fear they will lose their pension. Whilst a family home is exempt from the assets test for eligibility for the age pension once that pensioner downsizes or moves into a retirement village the excess proceeds from the sale of that family home are assessed for pension eligibility.
Rather than cutting back or even cancelling pension entitlements if those selling up were to retain those entitlements thousands more homes would come on the market, thus offering the opportunity for those younger Australians to buy a home.
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 9:16am
Offered a mate 2 days a week in our warehouse recently. Thought it would help both him & me.
Came back 2 days later saying thanks but no thanks - would complicate his pension payments too much
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... !
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 10:05am
I'm an older Australian who will never sell because I have two adult children having to live at home with no where else to go! I'm still working and not on the Pension. It is simple BB the houses are too dear to begin with but nothing can change that because too many people would be hurt. Fancy owning a house you bought for $1,200,000 and still paying it off to the bank. Only to be told its now worth $800,000. Somehow that is not going to happen because apart from anything else there would be mass suicides.
Look Oneone my son has issues (due to bullying and low self esteem and maybe slight autism - adhd or whatever that is) He is fine running the local bridge club and has a fine brain. He isn't on the pension or getting anything from the government. I have no idea what will happen to him when I die (it's a nightmare waiting to happen). But he's past trying to get work and now just doesn't even try. He can't get past the phone stage but even so I don't think he's game enough to say yes now. So yes he's dependant on my home and me working. And yes I do try to encourage him to try.
There are go getters and ones like my son who had any go bullied out of them long ago. He is like me artistic and musical and the school bully loved pestering him. So he stopped playing the piano and singing. THe art is too much apart of him so that still comes out.
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 10:11am
I don't have an issue with people having Govt support if they need it. My post was more questioning allowing those on a pension more flexibility in taking on part-time employment.
The current criteria almost seem counter productive to me.