Trots
Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: All Sports - Public Forums
Forum Name: Harness Racing
Forum Description: Discussions about the sport of harness racing. Run by the harness racing whiz, Pinevale Lad.
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=69808
Printed Date: 27 Mar 2026 at 12:51pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Trots
Posted By: Baghdad Bob
Subject: Trots
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 1:53pm
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I was just thinking the other day when were the halcyon days of the trots ? From my own point of view I think it was the days of Paleface Adios, Pure Steel, Markovina, etc when thousands attended Harold Park and the Showgrounds in Melbourne and there were bookies in various betting rings. Today the trots , a bit like the races , are not a candle on those days . |
Replies:
Posted By: iamt
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 2:33pm
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My thoughts, the success of trots was always about the spectacle and the experience. Half mile (or shorter) tracks running at night with the crowd right on top of the action. As interest declined the industry accelerated it by thinking the public wanted larger tracks and fairer racing, when the appeal was in the short tracks and the atmosphere they created.
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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:06pm
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Went to Harold Park a bit during the days of Christian Cullen and Courage Under Fire. It was a great atmosphere and good night out. Also to Newcastle a few times for heats of the MM and saw some great horses. It doesnt seem to get promoted now like it used to. ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:08pm
| The fact that the trots have moved to Melton and Menangle in Melbourne & Sydney respectively tells you all you need to know about the status of the sport. Both venue miles from anywhere and I suppose it makes sense when no one wants to go. Albion Park will be next to relocate you’d imagine. I think it’s supposed to be redeveloped for equestrian events at the Olympics but surely it’s only a matter of time that prime realestate like that gets turned into apartment blocks. Globe Derby & Gloucester Park probably a decade or so behind. They’ll likely last longer due to being in smaller cities. |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:09pm
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Used to be a great night out. Was regular at HP Always a solid peppering of the elite criminal element out in force as well  Yep - sorely missed. Some of my favourites off the top of my head along with Bobs above - Roma Hanover, Cocky Raider, Halwes (I was only a kid with him), Gammalite, the little Bathurst bulldog Hondo............. My favourite horse re punting was named Satan's Command. Won a lot of money with him - used to death seat & won a lot of races doing so. ------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:09pm
| I’d love to see them bring back the grass championships at Mooney Valley. Those races offered something different. Could they run a race or two during gallop meetings? |
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:10pm
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We went to Albion Park once, the Friday night before the Stradbroke meeting, no need to pay to get in, a telltale sign that nobody goes and there was about 5 people there. Too many entertainment and gambling options now and most know them by names like red hots, crims on rims, cheats on seats, etc, they exist now only for the after dark TAB needs. ------------- The worlds oldest fossil was discovered in Australia, they named it Rupert Murdoch. |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:15pm
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
ExceedAndExcel wrote:Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:16pm
We went to M V to a night meeting when C C won a Hunterr Cup. GGeez it was a good night out. And what about the trots at Melb and Syd Royal Shows  Exciting stuff being on the side fence feeling the dust in your face .------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:16pm
 ------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:18pm
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That showground track was a classic. Was there any straight at all Easy to get a shorty rolled there ------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:18pm
That is an interesting thought. Are Australian punters more interested in luck and entertainment ? I mean, it should be easier to back a winner on a bigger fairer track. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:22pm
still no track for GoldCoast after being promised before commonwealth games
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Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:24pm
| still have it on Brisbane show day on the small track, exciting to watch |
Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:26pm
Loved going to Harold Park on a Friday night in the 50s/60s , saw many great pacers and trotters , Caduceus the standout , 14-2 hands of pure dynamite , 50 thousand + the night he won the Inter . In 1960 , no better venue for a night meeting imo , putting poker machines in , and taking your eye off the ball the criminal element had a party , no need to tell you who the boss was . 
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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:33pm
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:43pm
Nah that’s correlation not causation. The trots crowds have followed the same trend as the thoroughbreds. Literally, the numbers of bookmakers that used to field on a Saturday would easily outnumber the number of punters in “the betting ring” today.
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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:48pm
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What were the odds of HP trot attendees travelling to bloody Menangle. That was real banjo playing country back them Not much better now ------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:49pm
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If you’d been to HP before they moved. You’d know the crowd could fit in the committee room……
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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:53pm
I kid you not there was not one item of food available after the last pie got sold about 2.30 pm And of course the horse lost  I have since been to the big nights (Miracle Mile , Interdominion) as an invited guest into the catered Miracle Mile room. That's pretty good. ------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
Posted By: iamt
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:56pm
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Its actually harder to back a winner on the larger tracks. Larger fields and gate speed being slightly lessened leave a few more chances and should have average price of winners widened. I didn't say the move to larger tracks caused the shift, it was already underway as you say, but moving away from the smaller tracks was a negative and accelerated the descent.
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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 3:58pm
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 5:59pm
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Interest in Melbourne pacing arguably first started to decline when they moved from the showgrounds to Moonee Valley. It was quick and easy to get to the showgrounds via car, tram or most likely train - all of which got you close to the turnstiles. And punters were right on top of the action and could circle the entire track to watch the races. The Valley was also relatively accessible but having a track inside the horse racing circuit hardly did anything for atmosphere. And whatever crowds were left certainly dissipated with the move to Melton where you'd be extremely fortunate to find anyone there not associated with a stable. There's of course more fundamental reasons for the decline of public interest in the sport, ones which'll never be reversed. Until about six months ago a past active member of TBV was marketing manager for Harness Racing Victoria and worked his butt off, most recently gaining exposure on Racing.com, however the damage in interest and to wagering pools had far earlier surfaced and he forever faced a thankless battle. FWIW. ps though there's a marvelous Harness racing facility in my current hometown of Bendigo, and it's quite anachronistic that there's a set of lights on the McIvor Highway that serves little purpose other than to allow drivers and their gigs to access the training track from their stables on the other side of the highway.  |
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 6:49pm
| The move from HP was a tough one and had a huge imoactnbut don’t underestimate the affect the booze bus had in many sports across NSW. A great night out after work, with the lads soon turned into a quiet dull affair for many |
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 6:55pm
He was my favourite  Much to my eternal shame I was escorted from the track by security after he got rolled in the biggest boat race ever. 1982 Lord Mayors cup
I was only young but not silly, I saw what went on |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 6:55pm
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True I has a Kombi & then a Hi-ace van for that very reason. If only vans could talk And the sticker on the back "if its a rocking, don't bother knocking" ------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 7:02pm
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
Posted By: Baghdad Bob
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 7:44pm
| Nice to see we all agree about the great horses and the demise of the trots since they are no longer held at the Showgrounds and Harold Park, whereas when we get on Joff's we are continually arguing amongst ourselves. |
Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 8:22pm
He certainly was. The sad thing is, he didn’t need to race in that style but it was the trainer/owners tactics. I remember quite a few times he came from back in the field and sprinted. QLD derby he would have lost over 100m in a scrimmage and came rattling home in a massive effort. I’ve got no doubt if driven and train3d by Vin Knight and his dad, he would have beaten Poppy many more times
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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 9:50pm
Had some beauty's in my early days , Captain Sandy , Ribands , Uncle Joe , Fettle , Sibelia , Sparkling Pearl , Apmat , Opal Chief , Cardigan Bay , then along came Paleface Adios , Pure Steel , Mt . Eden , too many really , anyone have a beer at the Harold Park Hotel ? 
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Posted By: Plastic letters
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 10:06pm
| Way too many beers at the HP. Used to go there for comedy nights as well |
Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 10:14pm
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My favourites were Hondo Grattan, koala king and popular alm. Great days but they are long gone. ------------- Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance. DiEM25 for the world. |
Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 10:31pm
Gone , but not forgotten by trotting lovers , Hey PL , I use to walk out of HP past that pub when I was too young to drink  then years later when I was old enough I had to get up at 3-30am to start at 4 am so couldn't risk it at that late hour I went with my dad in those early years , it was magic , my favourite race caller drank there all the time , his name was Geof Mahoney , the on course broadcaster for the AJC and STC , brilliant caller , accurate , precise , with a voice like velvet , called all the fights too , I think the writer Frank Harding drank there too .
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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 10:34pm
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I started listening to the trots on car radio , driving from Newtown to Dorrigo, when OH and I first became a number. There was a great race where a filly broke a track record and I was willing her on all the way,,,,,round about Taree. Now cant even recall her name.I loved Christian Cullen. Blakes A Fake. And the other one,,came from out Bathurst way,,,,,bloody hell my mind is shot,,,,help ,,, ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 10:38pm
| Was it Hondo Grattan ? |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 11:01pm
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No Carioca,,, later times , sort of, raced around Blacks A Fake or a bit earlier. Won some good races. On the tip of my tongue but wont come out of the grey matter,,, ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 11:03pm
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Our Sir Vancelot ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 11:05pm
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And Smoken Up. ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2023 at 11:36pm
| Anyone remember when an intruder into the Albion Park calling box tried to strangle David Fowler mid-race? Would have been 20 years ago. |
Posted By: Grey Affair
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 1:16am
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Was it Norm's Daughter? |
Posted By: Ready to Run
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 3:38am
| Smooth Satin |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 7:07am
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I remember seeing Rip Van Winkle win a race at HP by near on half a lap as a youngster. Always stayed with me Probably was no where near that much - amazing how the memory plays tricks. Just watched the famous Mount Eden Miracke Mike win.again. I thought he lost a lot more ground at the start than he actually did . 80 or 90 yards over a mile was nothing for a horse like that 😂 ------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 7:09am
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https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=mount%20eden%20pacer&tbm=&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:d1b332eb,vid:r8QBn0RYCkY,st:0" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=mount%20eden%20pacer&tbm=&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:d1b332eb,vid:r8QBn0RYCkY,st:0
------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
Posted By: Baghdad Bob
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 10:59am
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I know the Miracle Mile in the modern era is raced on a bigger track than Harold Park but back in the 1960s & 1970s a horse could win the race by breaking 2 minutes, but today a winner needs to break 1 minute and 50 seconds. I doubt any of Lucky Cteed, Mount Eden, Hondo Grattan or Paleface Adios etc were any inferior to today's best pacers, but their winning times in the Miracle Mile were pedestrian in comparison.
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Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 11:58am
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Mount eden was a good galloper 😂
------------- acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of the land on which we meet and pay my respects to their Elders past and present |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 1:18pm
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Smooth Satin ! Yes ! Thanks. But I remember Norms Daughter too. Thank You both. ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 4:12pm
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Did any of you see some of the photos of the OTT SBs that showed at Menangle and Hawkesbury shows ? Some stunners there. ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: Freefall
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 8:32pm
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I got bitten by the racing bug early. In the late 60's, early 70's (I was almost a teenager), my mum worked for a friend at the local TAB in Central West NSW. Friday nights she was at work and my old man and I used to watch the trots at Harold Park on TV. From memory the ABC used to show the legs of the daily double live and at the end of the night show a replay of each race. I was allowed to have a 25c daily double and sometimes a 50c. Paleface Adios, Hondo Grattan and Pure Steel were my favourites. After my mum finished (manually) collating all the tickets, locking up the TAB and getting home we were about half way through the replays. She knew the name of every winner! Good memories.
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Posted By: Freefall
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 8:44pm
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Fast forward a "few" years and I was going to uni in Sydney. Myself and 3 mates shared a terrace house in - you guessed it - Glebe. A 10 min walk to Wentworth Park and a short, student concession bus ride to Harold Park. The only time I've ever been to Gloucester Park in WA my wife and I skydived in lol. There was an Italian Festival on there and we were in a 4-man skydive demo team sponsored by one of the local radio stations 6PR. Our chief instructor's brother was the CEO of the station and they bought us canopies with a big "6PR" on them, jumpsuits, trailing flags, flares - and paid us too!! I remember we were floating over the WACA and a Sheffield Shield match was on and when you looked down you could see the game had stopped and all the players were looking up. |
Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 8:57pm
Cheers Freefall. 
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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2024 at 11:10pm
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Who remembers Christian Cullen ? I just saw a short vid of him and he looks a million dollars, and he is 30 years old this week !!! ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: Lord Hybrow
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2024 at 7:33pm
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Glad to hear Christian Cullen has enjoyed such a long life, he sure was a gun Kiwi pacer in the late 90’s. It’s a bit sad how the trots here in Australia have fallen out of the limelight over the past 20 years. When I first started following thoroughbred racing as a kid in the late 80’s, I also took an interest in harness racing. The trots back then was a vibrant sport with star horses like Village Kid, Westburn Grant, Blossom Lady, Thorate, Roleyalla, Our Maestro, Rufus Youngblood, Chokin, etc. I used to take a great deal of interest in all the big races, like thr Miracle Mile, Victoria Cup but especially the heats & final of the Inter Dominion, which got shared around every state. Not sure when I lost interest, maybe early 2000’s. I honestly couldn’t tell you who won any of those big trot races this year?? |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2024 at 7:48pm
No interest in these today? Phenomenal efforts by both horses  Swayzee, Just Believe triumph in NZ group 1 double
In arguably the most amazing "story" of the $NZ 1 million Group 1 NZ Cup's 121-year history, Swayzee overcame a manic racing and travel schedule to become the first Aussie pacer to successfully defend his title in the iconic race. Earlier in the day, champion Australian trotter Just Believe thrashed his rivals in the other feature race, the $NZ 400,000 Group 1 Dominion Trot. But Swayzee's win was the story of the day. The mighty NSW stayer, backed into $2.20 favourite, raced and won at Young last Friday night and then had flights from Sydney to Auckland and another to Christchurch, only arriving at 9.30pm on Sunday night. Just when it looked like the challenge might have found him out and local star Don't Stop Dreaming headed Swayzee at the 100m, the Aussie found another gear and pulled clear for a remarkable win. Winning back-to-back NZ Cups is more amazing when you consider Arden Rooney (2015) is the only other Aussie-trained pacer to win the race since My Lightning Blue did in 1987.
"Now we'll come back and chase a third Cup," triumphant trainer Jason Grimson said. "People made a lot of his travel, but I always felt he had the demeanour to handle it. He's an amazing horse." Driver Cam Hart, who also won on Swayzee last year, said this year was even sweeter. "It doesn't get better than this, just to come back and win it again … it sort of ices his greatness," he said. "I actually wasn't that worried when Dont Stop Dreaming came at me because Swayzee was loafing. As soon as he saw that horse, he switched on again and really lifted. He was hitting top gear again on the line." Grimson said Swayzee would bypass the NSW Inter Dominion, starting later this month. "He won't be here Friday, either. He's going for a bit of spell," he said. Earlier, Just Believe smashed through the $2 million prize money barrier with his Dominion win. It was Just Believe's 10th Group 1 – and this third at Group 1 level in NZ – and took his career earnings to $2,015,845. Driver and co-trainer Greg Sugars was moved to declare the win, in front of a packed NZ Cup Day crowd – as the highlight of his stellar career. "That's top of the tree for me," he said. "To come over here (NZ) and win the TAB Trot at Cambridge earlier this year was really special to me, but this, here at this track, is better again." To underline the significance of the win, Just Believe was the first Aussie-trained horse to win the Dominion since the mighty Scotch Notch a staggering 41 years ago. Incredibly, Just Believe has gone to another level since his daunting three-race Swedish raid in the middle of last year. Since returning home, the rising nine-year-old has raced 21 times for 19 wins and two seconds. "Jess (Tubbs, trainer) and I just marvel at him. You run out of things to say about him," Sugars said. "Somehow, despite his age, he's not only going as well as ever, but possibly better." Just Believe will back-up at Addington on Friday, chasing an 11th Group 1 win in the $NZ 100,000 NZ Trottting free-for-all. Adam Hamilton is a paid contributor writing on harness racing for News Corp. ------------- It takes a wise man a lifetime to grow a tree and a fool five minutes to kill one. |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2024 at 9:14pm
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I was like you, L.H. Used to remember and follow all the good ones. Remember Courage Under Fire ? The mighty mouse . I saw Christian Cullen win some of his bigger races , and got lucky enough to get an invite to see him work one morning, at the place he was staying , near Maitland, the year he won that good race at Bankstown, and I cant think of its name now. On the vid I saw this week CC looked amazing. Racing around his paddock, neck arched and tail swishing, not creeping around like an old horse. He always was a stunner. I remember standing in front of him when he was in the tie ups, and the width of his chest amazed me, as so many of the SBs of the time were so narrow when you looked at them front on. ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2024 at 8:33am
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Gee just goes to show how long I've been away from the game Always been hard to go to NZ & win......esp in a Trotting race. They used to have laps on our best trotters Times have obviously changed. ------------- And The Boys Light Up.... ! |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2024 at 9:22pm
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The race at Bankstown. The Truer Memorial. ------------- animals before people. |