Sunlight
Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Breeding - Public Forums
Forum Name: Broodmares
Forum Description: Mating advice and analysis
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=65539
Printed Date: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:55pm Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Sunlight
Posted By: Second Chance
Subject: Sunlight
Date Posted: 23 May 2020 at 3:16pm
Well she's being sold, though could well be put back into work in 2020/21.
But presuming she goes to the breeding barn, how about making some suggestions on:
(a) which stallions would suit her best; and (b) what stallions will she actually visit?
Over to you...
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Replies:
Posted By: Majestic
Date Posted: 23 May 2020 at 8:17pm
My opinion, two stallions that seem to compliment most bloodlines and also seem to upgrade them, possibly hard to do with a Gp1 mare, areI Am Invincible and Snitzel. Haven’t looked at computer matching programs. No better two stallions for percentage of producing winners and SWs. I look forward to other opinions.
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Posted By: VSP.
Date Posted: 23 May 2020 at 8:33pm
She will probably be bought for a squillion to go to and help promote some overhyped new stallion with no runs on the board - owner either by Coolmore or Newgate.
------------- www.snowshoecats.webs.com
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Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 23 May 2020 at 8:35pm
I haven't checked pedigrees either but am wondering if So You Think might complement her speed and add a little more distance potential. He certainly throws quality conformation as well as athleticism.
------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Posted By: Majestic
Date Posted: 23 May 2020 at 8:47pm
My worry is, as VSP stated, Magnier or Messara will buy her. Mitchell’s rarely buy quality Gp1 mares so IAI could miss out. Anthony Miffen for Starspangledbanner? Too dear !!!!!!!! Widden Wonder Boy ??????So close to breeding season, if I was the owner, she would be served and PTIF to IAI and put on the market. At least $2M if not more. Snitzel could be losing some gloss, even with current Sires Premiership in the pocket. What do you think?
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 24 May 2020 at 1:05pm
Have a short list of about half a dozen possibles.
Don't believe you'd want more Danehill close up. Snitzel for instance gives you him 3 x 4 x 5, two of them via Redoute's Choice 2 x 4. Bit close for mine.
Am with Majestic re proven sire I Am invincible. Mostly
sprinting stock but has plenty of stakes-winners over 1400-1600m. Pedigree match appears fine in its
simplicity:
Danzig 4 x 5, 5; four lines of Star Kingdom (three via Bletchingly 4 x 5, 7 in turn via Canny Lad on two occasions 3 x 6.)
Furious might talk to the locally bred duplications and
possible inheritable faults, though both sire and dam were pretty sound before
McEvoy arguably pushed the mare too far. More later after others have had a go.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 24 May 2020 at 1:07pm
SUNLIGHT (AUS) | Bay filly 2015 | |
Zoustar Bay 2010 | Northern Meteor Bay 2005 | Encosta de Lago Bay 1993 | Fairy King Bay 1982 | Northern Dancer Fairy Bridge | 1961 1975 | 2-d 5-h | Shoal Creek Chestnut 1988 | Star Way Rolls | 1977 1984 | 6-e 4-g | Explosive Bay 1990 | Fappiano Bay 1977 | Mr Prospector Killaloe | 1970 1970 | 13-c 16-a | Scuff Chestnut 1979 | Forli Moccasin | 1963 1963 | 3-b 5-h | Zouzou Bay 2001 | Redoute's Choice Bay 1996 | Danehill Bay 1986 | Danzig Razyana | 1977 1981 | 7-a 2-d | Shantha's Choice Bay 1992 | Canny Lad Dancing Show | 1987 1983 | 14> 8-f | Meteor Mist Chestnut 1987 | Star Shower Chestnut 1976 | Star of Heaven Show | 1961 1970 | 2-o 8> | Sunbuster Brown 1982 | Blockbuster Sunshine Lass | 1973 1964 | 1-n 8-k | Solar Charged Bay or brown 2007 | Charge Forward Bay 2001 | Red Ransom Bay 1987 | Roberto Bay 1969 | Hail to Reason Bramalea | 1958 1959 | 4-n 12-c | Arabia Bay 1977 | Damascus Christmas Wind | 1964 1967 | 8-h 6-b | Sydney's Dream Bay 1991 | Bletchingly Brown 1970 | Biscay Coogee | 1965 1959 | 2-o 7-a | Dream Appeal Bay 1982 | Valid Appeal Cam Shaft | 1972 1962 | 2-c 52> | Soul Singer Bay 1998 | Danehill Bay 1986 | Danzig Bay 1977 | Northern Dancer Pas de Nom | 1961 1968 | 2-d 7-a | Razyana Bay 1981 | His Majesty Spring Adieu | 1968 1974 | 4-d 2-d | Aretha Bay or brown 1986 | Sir Dapper Bay 1980 | Vain Sikri | 1966 1967 | A10 C25 | Soul Power Bay 1972 | Le Cordonnier Vol Power | 1963 1962 | 2-n 16-a |
| Ancestor duplications: | Northern Dancer | 5m x 5m | | Danehill | 4m x 3f |
------------- reductio ad absurdum
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Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 25 May 2020 at 3:05am
They’ve certainly tried to stay in the pocket with the immediate family over the years. Besides Zoustar’s headline act, can we take anything from the attempts to add Sebring into the equation? What was he supposed to bring to the party & where else can in be found?
I’m usually in the camp that thinks there’s never enough Vain. At least with Sunlight, there are a couple of Wilkes’ daughters in the mix through Meteor Mist, so a maternal Vain influence, say Written Tycoon or All Too Hard, might spark something?
I’m also a Last Tycoon fan, so I’d have Merchant Navy on the shortlist as well.
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Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 25 May 2020 at 7:49am
I’m with you Red Hare. Never enough Vain. what of the impact of Bletchingly in her pedigree?
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 25 May 2020 at 4:43pm
It’s interesting that you appear to implicitly bag Sebring
as a possible match RH. FWIW I believe the match has definite attractions, such as
his:
·
proven sire record;
·
ability to get winners over most distances
including Classic performers; and
·
attractiveness from a line breeding perspective,
in particular the cross of superb broodmare Rolls.
Admittedly it brings in three (sex balanced) strains of
Danehill, but back at 4 x 4, 5.
Not saying it’s brilliant, but still well worth consideration.
And you also suggest All Too Hard which is equally interesting as the pedigree profile that results is extremely similar to that with Sebring, except that ATH introduces more Vain.
Cheers.
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Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 26 May 2020 at 1:19pm
That's a really weird take on what was posted.
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 26 May 2020 at 3:51pm
Well I've apparently misunderstood, so would appreciate if you could explain what you meant by posting ".. can we take anything from the attempts to add Sebring into the equation? What was he supposed to bring to the party & where else can in be found?"
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 26 May 2020 at 4:58pm
But moving along, here are some others that I either thought might match up - acknowledging that some quite rightly wouldn't be considered by the new owners: ie Impending, Brazen Beau, Russian Revolution and Invader.
I really fancy Impending, but wouldn't go there until he'd proved himself. No Danehill, but crosses of Encosta, Canny Lad, Mr P, Bletchingly and Vain (for those who like him as do I). The no Danehill means that any stallion or mare that results can either host or visit any number of the multitude of horses with Danehill blood without over egging the cake. Exactly as would be the case with my first choice I Am Invincible. Not that all that many appear would to look a generation forward when planning matings.
But again over to others to provide opinion, even it might be to seriously question my suggestions.
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Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 26 May 2020 at 9:11pm
Interesting to read Red Hare's comment that Vain "might spark something." Given that Sunlight was a pure speed machine from a pretty good family, I don't know if there was a missing spark that we should be looking for. Speed on speed would not be the strategy that I would be looking at. Interestingly Causeway Queen won to 2100m and the family traces back to a GB mare called Bunfeast who came out around WW1 and immediately produced Royal Feast who won the VRC and AJC Sires' Produce. A few generations later we see the family visiting stallions like Dhoti and Comic Court although with relatively little success. For me, it would be proven stallions like Lonhro, Pierro or even So You Think that look to have plenty to offer as part of a long term strategy.
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 27 May 2020 at 7:35pm
Second Chance wrote:
Well I've apparently misunderstood, so would appreciate if you could explain what you meant by posting ".. can we take anything from the attempts to add Sebring into the equation? What was he supposed to bring to the party & where else can in be found?" |
Doesn't really matter now. Appears I've been living in a cave and wasn't aware or couldn't remember that Sebring had passed.
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Posted By: Kimberley Mine
Date Posted: 27 May 2020 at 11:05pm
Second Chance wrote:
Doesn't really matter now. Appears I've been living in a cave and wasn't aware or couldn't remember that Sebring had passed. |
You're not the only one thinking Halo, although I was thinking more a Deep Impact son than a son of Sebring or More Than Ready.
In no particular order....
Since she has two crosses to Redoute's Choice and no Sir Tristram, Dundeel or Pierro. Lonhro -- not so much, he's not likely to bring some stamina to the mating. Thinking outside the box: Savabeel.
I Am Invincible because he upgrades pretty much every mare he sees and his dam is by Canny Lad.
Written Tycoon is interesting. No Danzig but he does Noholme, Marscay, and Vain. This cross would be all speed, however he's one of the best outcross stallions in Australia for Danehill.
So You Think for a cross to High Chaparral. I like Dundeel better for a High Chap son.
One more outside the box: Ocean Park. Although it took him a few years to hit his straps, it's notable that he produces with mares from just about any broodmare sireline.
And that's pretty much it for proven sires in her league with no Danehill.
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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 10:52am
Appears I've been living in a cave and wasn't aware or couldn't remember that Sebring had passed.
I must have been in the same cave ! That was kept very quiet I think ? I saw nothing in the general run of things, and none of ours here posted . Did they ??
What happened to him ?
------------- animals before people.
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Posted By: Dizzy
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 12:01pm
Sebring had a heart attack Feb 2019.
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Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 7:08pm
Hello, I wasn't lookuing so deep in Sunlight's ped. My suugestion would be a Sire with Machiavellian in his ped. He is from the same damline as Danehill, but via a different strain. Zoustar is by "Northern Meteor", a very Close inbred sire from the Dalmary Family. On the other Hand "Solar Charged" carries none of them, so Sires with Sadlers Wells/Nureyev/Perugine etc. comes to mind. An interestiong mating would be with the promising 3 year old colt "Palm Springs" (Maxios-Panatella by Medicean) here in Germany.; because he is 3x3 Machiavellian/Coup de Genie FB/FS. I knew, it's very very hypothetical. A bit of topic "Star Shower" carries the Germanbred Sire "Novalis" (from Owen Tudor). regards, Ticino
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Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 7:35pm
Hello, as example "Lope de Vega" is 3x3 Machiavellian: regards, Ticino
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 12:25pm
So what do people think about the Justify match?
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Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 2:06pm
I thought it simply a case of 'best to best' &/or market aimed, as I did with Invincibella I guess hype always sells well, so probably good econimic decisions.
------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 5:56pm
Progold wrote:
Given that Sunlight was a pure speed machine from a pretty good family, I don't know if there was a missing spark that we should be looking for. For me, it would be proven stallions like Lonhro, Pierro or even So You Think that look to have plenty to offer as part of a long term strategy. |
I'm along this line of thought also, with Impending and Pierata also at the forefront. Ok they were both best at about 1300m, however believe the strong Lonhro/Octagonal/Zabeel strength might well come to the fore in their well matched progeny.
But reckon you could bet your last dollar that Sunlight will visit Pierro sooner rather than later.
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 6:30pm
With a mare like this it's just not good enough to go to the second tier. Coolmore have bought her and others to go to Justify. Yes not my first choice for her either but his Nijinsky blood at least offers some cross for Redoute's and Ogygian (sire of the dam of Johannesburg) is from the same female line as Sunlight herself but is closer to Fappiano (in Zoustar) with them both decending from Plucky Liege.
As she is going to Coolmore there is always the chance she will also visit Pierro or So You Think sometime in the future. While I think Snitzel is to close for the Redoute's cross.
Also I'd prefer he go to Justify (who's sire was much better) than Amerian Pharoah even though Pioneerof Tee Nile is from the sire line of Fappiano which could be interesting. But that mating will also probably be on the cards in the future.
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 6:34pm
I forgot to say that I also love the I am Invincible cross but that seems highly unlikely now.
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Posted By: Take2
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2020 at 11:48pm
Ticino wrote:
Hello,I wasn't lookuing so deep in Sunlight's ped. My suugestion would be a Sire with Machiavellian in his ped. He is from the same damline as Danehill, but via a different strain. Zoustar is by "Northern Meteor", a very Close inbred sire from the Dalmary Family. On the other Hand "Solar Charged" carries none of them, so Sires with Sadlers Wells/Nureyev/Perugine etc. comes to mind. An interestiong mating would be with the promising 3 year old colt "Palm Springs" (Maxios-Panatella by Medicean) here in Germany.; because he is 3x3 Machiavellian/Coup de Genie FB/FS. I knew, it's very very hypothetical. A bit of topic "Star Shower" carries the Germanbred Sire "Novalis" (from Owen Tudor). regards, Ticino |
i think you might be on the money there ticino with the sadler's wells - nureyev suggestions, also your machiavellian /coup de folie thoughts , let's hope that they dont waste her as happens so frequently with great racemares, and like always all most of us can do about her is drool and dream
------------- change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol
www.3rdmillenniumbloodstock.com.au
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