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Sunlight

Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Breeding - Public Forums
Forum Name: Broodmares
Forum Description: Mating advice and analysis
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=65539
Printed Date: 10 Jul 2020 at 3:11am


Topic: Sunlight
Posted By: Second Chance
Subject: Sunlight
Date Posted: 23 May 2020 at 3:16pm
Well she's being sold, though could well be put back into work in 2020/21.

But presuming she goes to the breeding barn, how about making some suggestions on:

(a) which stallions would suit her best; and
(b) what stallions will she actually visit?

Over to you...



Replies:
Posted By: Majestic
Date Posted: 23 May 2020 at 8:17pm
My opinion, two stallions that seem to compliment most bloodlines and also seem to upgrade them, possibly hard to do with a Gp1 mare, areI Am Invincible and Snitzel. Haven’t looked at computer matching programs. No better two stallions for percentage of producing winners and SWs. I look forward to other opinions.


Posted By: VSP.
Date Posted: 23 May 2020 at 8:33pm
She will probably be bought for a squillion to go to and help promote some overhyped new stallion with no runs on the board - owner either by Coolmore or Newgate.

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www.snowshoecats.webs.com


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 23 May 2020 at 8:35pm
I haven't checked pedigrees either but am wondering if So You Think might complement her speed and add a little more distance potential. He certainly throws quality conformation as well as athleticism.


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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything, it's too late to stop reading it.


Posted By: Majestic
Date Posted: 23 May 2020 at 8:47pm
My worry is, as VSP stated, Magnier or Messara will buy her. Mitchell’s rarely buy quality Gp1 mares so IAI could miss out. Anthony Miffen for Starspangledbanner? Too dear !!!!!!!! Widden Wonder Boy  ??????
So close to breeding season, if I was the owner, she would be served and PTIF to IAI and put on the market. At least $2M if not more. Snitzel could be losing some gloss, even with current Sires Premiership in the pocket. What do you think?



Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 24 May 2020 at 1:05pm
Have a short list of about half a dozen possibles.

Don't believe you'd want more Danehill close up.  Snitzel for instance gives you him 3 x 4 x 5, two of them via Redoute's Choice 2 x 4. Bit close for mine.

Am with Majestic re proven sire I Am invincible.  Mostly sprinting stock but has plenty of stakes-winners over 1400-1600m.  Pedigree match appears fine in its simplicity:

Danzig 4 x 5, 5; four lines of Star Kingdom (three via Bletchingly 4 x 5, 7 in turn via Canny Lad on two occasions 3 x 6.)

Furious might talk to the locally bred duplications and possible inheritable faults, though both sire and dam were pretty sound before McEvoy arguably pushed the mare too far. 

More later after others have had a go.







Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 24 May 2020 at 1:07pm
SUNLIGHT (AUS)Bay filly 2015 
Zoustar
Bay 2010
Northern Meteor
Bay 2005
Encosta de Lago
Bay 1993
Fairy King
Bay 1982
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Shoal Creek
Chestnut 1988
Star Way
Rolls
1977
1984
6-e
4-g
Explosive
Bay 1990
Fappiano
Bay 1977
Mr Prospector
Killaloe
1970
1970
13-c
16-a
Scuff
Chestnut 1979
Forli
Moccasin
1963
1963
3-b
5-h
Zouzou
Bay 2001
Redoute's Choice
Bay 1996
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Razyana
1977
1981
7-a
2-d
Shantha's Choice
Bay 1992
Canny Lad
Dancing Show
1987
1983
14>
8-f
Meteor Mist
Chestnut 1987
Star Shower
Chestnut 1976
Star of Heaven
Show
1961
1970
2-o
8>
Sunbuster
Brown 1982
Blockbuster
Sunshine Lass
1973
1964
1-n
8-k
Solar Charged
Bay or brown 2007
Charge Forward
Bay 2001
Red Ransom
Bay 1987
Roberto
Bay 1969
Hail to Reason
Bramalea
1958
1959
4-n
12-c
Arabia
Bay 1977
Damascus
Christmas Wind
1964
1967
8-h
6-b
Sydney's Dream
Bay 1991
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Dream Appeal
Bay 1982
Valid Appeal
Cam Shaft
1972
1962
2-c
52>
Soul Singer
Bay 1998
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Aretha
Bay or brown 1986
Sir Dapper
Bay 1980
Vain
Sikri
1966
1967
A10
C25
Soul Power
Bay 1972
Le Cordonnier
Vol Power
1963
1962
2-n
16-a
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m x 5m Danehill4m x 3f


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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 25 May 2020 at 3:05am
They’ve certainly tried to stay in the pocket with the immediate family over the years. Besides Zoustar’s headline act, can we take anything from the attempts to add Sebring into the equation? What was he supposed to bring to the party & where else can in be found?

I’m usually in the camp that thinks there’s never enough Vain. At least with Sunlight, there are a couple of Wilkes’ daughters in the mix through Meteor Mist, so a maternal Vain influence, say Written Tycoon or All Too Hard, might spark something?

I’m also a Last Tycoon fan, so I’d have Merchant Navy on the shortlist as well.


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 25 May 2020 at 7:49am
I’m with you Red Hare. Never enough Vain. what of the impact of Bletchingly in her pedigree? 


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 25 May 2020 at 4:43pm

It’s interesting that you appear to implicitly bag Sebring as a possible match RH.  FWIW I believe the match has definite attractions, such as his:

·         proven sire record;

·         ability to get winners over most distances including Classic performers; and

·         attractiveness from a line breeding perspective, in particular the cross of superb broodmare Rolls.

Admittedly it brings in three (sex balanced) strains of Danehill, but back at 4 x 4, 5.

Not saying it’s brilliant, but still well worth consideration.

And you also suggest All Too Hard which is equally interesting as the pedigree profile that results is extremely similar to that with Sebring, except that ATH introduces more Vain.

Cheers. 


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 26 May 2020 at 1:19pm
Confused That's a really weird take on what was posted.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 26 May 2020 at 3:51pm
Well I've apparently misunderstood, so would appreciate if you could explain what you meant by posting ".. can we take anything from the attempts to add Sebring into the equation? What was he supposed to bring to the party & where else can in be found?"


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 26 May 2020 at 4:58pm
But moving along, here are some others that I either thought might match up - acknowledging that some quite rightly wouldn't be considered by the new owners: ie Impending, Brazen Beau, Russian Revolution and Invader.

I really fancy Impending, but wouldn't go there until he'd proved himself.  No Danehill, but crosses of Encosta, Canny Lad, Mr P, Bletchingly and Vain (for those who like him as do I).  The no Danehill means that any stallion or mare that results can either host or visit any number of the multitude of horses with Danehill blood without over egging the cake.  Exactly as would be the case with my first choice I Am Invincible.  Not that all that many appear would to look a generation forward when planning matings. 

But again over to others to provide opinion, even it might be to seriously question my suggestions.  Wink  Smile


Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 26 May 2020 at 9:11pm
Interesting to read Red Hare's comment that Vain "might spark something." Given that Sunlight was a pure speed machine from a pretty good family, I don't know if there was a missing spark that we should be looking for. Speed on speed would not be the strategy that I would be looking at. Interestingly Causeway Queen won to 2100m and the family traces back to a GB mare called Bunfeast who came out around WW1 and immediately produced Royal Feast who won the VRC and AJC Sires' Produce. A few generations later we see the family visiting stallions like Dhoti and Comic Court although with relatively little success. For me, it would be proven stallions like Lonhro, Pierro or even So You Think that look to have plenty to offer as part of a long term strategy.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 27 May 2020 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Well I've apparently misunderstood, so would appreciate if you could explain what you meant by posting ".. can we take anything from the attempts to add Sebring into the equation? What was he supposed to bring to the party & where else can in be found?"

Doesn't really matter now.  Appears I've been living in a cave and wasn't aware or couldn't remember that Sebring had passed.


Posted By: Kimberley Mine
Date Posted: 27 May 2020 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:


Doesn't really matter now.  Appears I've been living in a cave and wasn't aware or couldn't remember that Sebring had passed.

You're not the only one thinking Halo, although I was thinking more a Deep Impact son than a son of Sebring or More Than Ready.

In no particular order....

Since she has two crosses to Redoute's Choice and no Sir Tristram, Dundeel or Pierro. Lonhro -- not so much, he's not likely to bring some stamina to the mating.  Thinking outside the box: Savabeel.

I Am Invincible because he upgrades pretty much every mare he sees and his dam is by Canny Lad.

Written Tycoon is interesting.  No Danzig but he does Noholme, Marscay, and Vain.  This cross would be all speed, however he's one of the best outcross stallions in Australia for Danehill.

So You Think for a cross to High Chaparral.  I like Dundeel better for a High Chap son.

One more outside the box: Ocean Park.  Although it took him a few years to hit his straps, it's notable that he produces with mares from just about any broodmare sireline.

And that's pretty much it for proven sires in her league with no Danehill.




Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 10:52am
Appears I've been living in a cave and wasn't aware or couldn't remember that Sebring had passed.

I must have been in the same cave ! Embarrassed  That was kept very quiet I think ?  I saw nothing in the general run of things, and none of ours here posted . Cry   Did they ?? Confused  What happened to him ?


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animals before people.


Posted By: Dizzy
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 12:01pm
Sebring had a heart attack Feb 2019.


Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 7:08pm
Hello,
I wasn't lookuing so deep in Sunlight's ped.
 
My suugestion would be a Sire with Machiavellian in his ped. He is from the same damline as Danehill, but via a different strain.
 
Zoustar is by "Northern Meteor", a very Close inbred sire from the Dalmary Family. On the other Hand
"Solar Charged" carries none of them, so Sires with Sadlers Wells/Nureyev/Perugine etc. comes to mind.
 
An interestiong mating would be with the promising 3 year old colt "Palm Springs" (Maxios-Panatella by Medicean) here in Germany.; because he is 3x3 Machiavellian/Coup de Genie FB/FS. I knew, it's very very hypothetical.
 
A bit of topic "Star Shower" carries the Germanbred Sire "Novalis" (from Owen Tudor).
 
regards, Ticino
 


Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 7:35pm
Hello,
as example "Lope de Vega" is 3x3 Machiavellian:
 
regards, Ticino



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