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Russian Camelot

Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Racing - Public Forums
Forum Name: Racing Forum
Forum Description: General discussion about thoroughbred horse racing
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=65245
Printed Date: 29 Mar 2024 at 8:05am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Russian Camelot
Posted By: djebel
Subject: Russian Camelot
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2020 at 4:39pm
RUSSIAN CAMELOT (IRE)Bay colt 2017 
Camelot
Bay or brown 2009
Montjeu
Bay 1996
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Floripedes
Bay 1985
Top Ville
Bay 1976
High Top
Sega Ville
1969
1968
11-a
8-i
Toute Cy
Bay 1979
Tennyson
Adele Toumignon
1970
1971
1-t
1-u
Tarfah
Bay 2001
Kingmambo
Bay 1990
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Miesque
Bay 1984
Nureyev
Pasadoble
1977
1979
5-h
20>
Fickle
Bay 1996
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Razyana
1977
1981
7-a
2-d
Fade
Bay 1988
Persepolis
One Over Parr
1979
1972
4-n
4-o
Lady Babooshka
Bay 2011
Cape Cross
Bay or brown 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Foreign Courier
Bay 1979
Sir Ivor
Courtly Dee
1965
1968
8-g
A4
Park Appeal
Bay or brown 1982
Ahonoora
Chestnut 1975
Lorenzaccio
Helen Nichols
1965
1966
5-h
1-m
Balidaress
Grey 1973
Balidar
Innocence
1966
1968
8-d
14-c
Balalaika
Bay 1993
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Bella Colora
Bay 1982
Bellypha
Grey 1976
Lyphard
Belga
1969
1968
17-b
16-b
Reprocolor
Chestnut 1976
Jimmy Reppin
Blue Queen
1965
1967
7-d
13-e
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 5m,4m Sadler's Wells3m x 3f Danzig5m x 4m


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reductio ad absurdum



Replies:
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 4:41pm
Given the spruke around this colt I'm surprised there isn't a thread for him yet. Anyway article https://www.racing.com/news/2020-03-06/news-camelot-the-super-saturday-show-stealer-beasy" rel="nofollow - this is for you djebel.

Surely no way he could run in the Derbies at both Morphetville and Epsom?


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 5:00pm
Well in a month or two we'll better know whether he's Russian Camelot or just plain Russian Camel.


Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 5:26pm

Djebel mentioned him in the Vow and Declare thread, I read this article earlier and rather than send the V&D thread off course I decided to post it here.




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Seeing Manchester United relegated would mean more than words can describe to me.


Posted By: Lord Hybrow
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 9:01pm
One of the most interesting runners of the day at Flemington tomorrow.

But as an 11/4 favourite over only 1400m, I’ll just watch him from a future perspective.

Sounds like SA Derby 2500m is the main aim, probably via either the Port Adelaide Guineas 1800m or Chairman’s Stks 2000m


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 5:43pm
Opinions on the run?


Posted By: VOYAGER
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 6:29pm
I will have a guess SC.

Not being around the horse I bow to the trainer's knowledge of the horse, but he looks to me to be very similar to Vow And Declare aerobic wise so why not get him fit enough to run at, at least 1600m if not 2000m first up.

I thought he was a false favourite today although his run after what happened at the start was good.

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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 6:35pm
Cheers Voyager.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 11:40pm
Oustanding run.

Hopefully they find a suitable 2000m race in about 3 weeks. Let me have a look.

1800m Port Adelaide Guineas 4th April - 2500m South Australian Derby 9 May - 2400m Epsom Derby 6th June.




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 11:41pm
RUSSIAN CAMELOT (IRE)Bay colt 2017 
Camelot
Bay or brown 2009
Montjeu
Bay 1996
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Floripedes
Bay 1985
Top Ville
Bay 1976
High Top
Sega Ville
1969
1968
11-a
8-i
Toute Cy
Bay 1979
Tennyson
Adele Toumignon
1970
1971
1-t
1-u
Tarfah
Bay 2001
Kingmambo
Bay 1990
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Miesque
Bay 1984
Nureyev
Pasadoble
1977
1979
5-h
20>
Fickle
Bay 1996
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Razyana
1977
1981
7-a
2-d
Fade
Bay 1988
Persepolis
One Over Parr
1979
1972
4-n
4-o
Lady Babooshka
Bay 2011
Cape Cross
Bay or brown 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Foreign Courier
Bay 1979
Sir Ivor
Courtly Dee
1965
1968
8-g
A4
Park Appeal
Bay or brown 1982
Ahonoora
Chestnut 1975
Lorenzaccio
Helen Nichols
1965
1966
5-h
1-m
Balidaress
Grey 1973
Balidar
Innocence
1966
1968
8-d
14-c
Balalaika
Bay 1993
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Bella Colora
Bay 1982
Bellypha
Grey 1976
Lyphard
Belga
1969
1968
17-b
16-b
Reprocolor
Chestnut 1976
Jimmy Reppin
Blue Queen
1965
1967
7-d
13-e
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 5m,4m Sadler's Wells3m x 3f Danzig5m x 4m


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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2020 at 5:00pm
Djebel this fella isn't going to Epsom.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2020 at 5:08pm
Have they ruled a line through that dream ? 

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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2020 at 6:10pm
What's it doing in the southern hemisphere?


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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron



Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2020 at 6:37pm
Melbourne Cup aspirations perhaps?

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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Lord Hybrow
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2020 at 5:03pm
After his antics on Saturday, this guy runs tonight in the last race over 1600m at Pakenham.

Can hopefully get his SA Derby campaign back on track.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2020 at 5:10pm
$1.25.

Jeepers, you'd want that him just getting out of the gate in one piece.

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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 12:59am
Superb, Absolutely superb.




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 9:35am
$1.50 on Betfair

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Posted By: Lord Hybrow
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 12:11pm
It was an imperious win last night.

Post race interview with Danny indicated he’d have 1 more run before the SA Derby. Theres a few 3yo races that could be options on Anzac Day - the Chairman’s Stks over 2000m at Morphettville or the Peter Armitage Hcp 1700m at Flemington.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 12:24pm
Hopefully they go the Flemington option just so it is a grand final meeting with Dalasan in the Derby.

Be a shame if they met before hand.


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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 12:41pm
O'Brien said last night he might have one more in Victoria. Things are complicated by the quarantine issue Ollie wants the ride but will have to serve 2 weeks before and after and the Derby is in 4 weeks tomorrow, 9th May.


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Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 12:43pm
https://twitter.com/Racing/status/1248206258680680448" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/Racing/status/1248206258680680448

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Posted By: Lord Hybrow
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 8:18pm
Scratched from Flemington tomorrow with an inflamed airway.

Hopefully he ends up lining up ffor the SA Derby.


Posted By: Shawy38
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:06pm
Should be good to go. John Allen booked for the Derby ride


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 3:17pm
As we have all seen Russian Camelot has not accepted for 3yo race at Sandown on Saturday.

How long would the antibiotics stay in his system ?

Is it a gamble even going to the Derby from that point of view ?


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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Shawy38
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 6:38pm
Brained them


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 6:39pm
Unbelievable



Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 6:40pm
Ditto from me.  Simply superb.


Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 6:42pm
That was arrogant, won it easily on his ear, thoughts on the ride? The colt didn't seem happy going round the first turn, got stuck 3 wide the trip out the back and still blew them away.

Very exciting future for this colt.


Posted By: Shawy38
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 6:42pm
Peach from JA


Posted By: Grey Affair
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 6:46pm
And don't forget that he was foaled in Ireland so would have received possibly 4.5 kg if this had been run at WFA.

He has an enormous future.



Posted By: Majestic
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 6:58pm
that was amazing. The run, the ride and the arrogance of horse and rider. Hope he does a Subzero. Will be the next Winx.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 7:04pm
Hey djebel, you gunna stick with the “it’s not our horses it’s our trainers” fantasy?

Lol, ‘course you are.


Posted By: Foxseal
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 7:15pm
Astonishing performance given the prep hasn’t been trouble free.

Would any other leading trainer have enough confidence in their horse jump a 3yo from 1600m to 2500m?   I can’t see too many having the kahunas to do it. Well done Danny 👏

Fingers crossed we see him back in cracking form for the Spring Cups, certainly an exciting prospect 👍


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 7:17pm
Your record's totally stuck Judge, and repetitively boring to all bar you and perhaps one or two others.  Dead

Rather prefer the positivity of Foxseal and others.


Posted By: Balciano
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 7:27pm
Fair season with stayers for Danny O'Brien.

Wins the Derby 3rd up with a horse off the back of a 1400 and 1600 metre run.

Win the Melbourne Cup with a horse 3rd up.

Wins the Adelaide Cup with a horse 3rd up.

Amazing training performance.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Your record's totally stuck Judge, and repetitively boring to all bar you and perhaps one or two others.  Dead

Rather prefer the positivity of Foxseal and others.


You can keep your head in the sand about it if you like- the virtual Ponzi scheme that is our breeding industry, producing an ever increasing conga line of dismal spuds.

This is a horse racing forum. As far as I’m concerned it’s the most pressing issue in the industry today. Sorry about the lack of “positivity”, princess.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 7:35pm
Excellent and accurate observation Balciano.  


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 7:49pm
djebel, feel free to ignore the all too obvious dangling fishing line, otherwise known as trolling, especially as he's already answered his own question Disapprove

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Hey djebel, you gunna stick with the “it’s not our horses it’s our trainers” fantasy?

Lol, ‘course you are.


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 7:55pm
Everyone's welcome here, barring boringly repetitive trolls. Which Judge Holden has sadly but clearly become.  Ouch


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 8:05pm
You can call me a troll all you like, but your lack of a counter argument is conspicuous. Why should the topic of the increasing lack of competitiveness of our horses not be broached in a horse racing forum? You think you’ll hear about it in the media? Give me a good answer to those and I’ll shut up about it.

As for you Gay, djebel’s a big boy, and he’s not shy in an opinion. Why you need to tell him what he should or should not respond to is baffling to me.


Posted By: Shawy38
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 8:46pm
I just hope he sticks around and doesn’t end up in Hong Kong
I know they’ve previously had offers


Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 9:02pm
It would have to be at least 10mil because by this time next year he'd be close to amassing that sort of prizemoney.

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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Hey djebel, you gunna stick with the “it’s not our horses it’s our trainers” fantasy?

Lol, ‘course you are.


Hopefully Mr Waller has learn't a thing or two from Danny O'brien today.

Judgeyboy, How many other Aussie trainers would have had the nous to campaign Russian Camelot in this fashion ?




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 9:35pm
Sorry djebel. He only had to point that thing in the right direction and it would’ve flogged our scrubbers.

Funny, only a year or so ago O’Brien was really on the nose in here...


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 9:40pm
Unfortunately those pictures did not come out ?

Jeez I wish O'Brien trained Fifty Stars and Verry Elleegant.




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Sorry djebel. He only had to point that thing in the right direction and it would’ve flogged our scrubbers.

Funny, only a year or so ago O’Brien was really on the nose in here...

Almost any other trainer in Australasia would have made a plodder out of him by racing him into the ground over shorter trips.




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 9:50pm
He started his campaign at 1400. Then went to 1600. Then scratched at the barrier next start 1600. Typical Aussie prep until he went amiss. For gods sake man, think.

There's no need to quote the post immediately above, we're all capable of seeing it!


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 10:01pm
Almost any other trainer, with the horse displaying his speed would have gone the Dalasan route.

Waller would never get him out past a mile.




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 10:28pm
Sorry Gay, I wasn’t sure someone hadn’t posted before. I guess in this place, it’s a goddam guarantee. I’m about to quote djebel again, is that ok with you? Righteo...


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Almost any other trainer, with the horse displaying his speed would have gone the Dalasan route.

Waller would never get him out past a mile.



The horse was given a traditional “Aussie” prep until things went awry.

It didn’t matter because he wasn’t burdened with the crushing impost of having been Australian bred. That’s about it, really.


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 10:53pm
@DOBrienRacing with todays win in the Group 1 South Australian Derby...that takes the total stakes (Group/Listed) win total to 99:

Group 1: 19
Group 2: 16
Group 3: 23
Listed:    41

Total: 99


One more Danny to reach the 100

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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Almost any other trainer, with the horse displaying his speed would have gone the Dalasan route.

Waller would never get him out past a mile.



The horse was given a traditional “Aussie” prep until things went awry.

It didn’t matter because he wasn’t burdened with the crushing impost of having been Australian bred. That’s about it, really.

What is Australian bred about Dalasan or Fifty Stars and so many others. There is virtually no such thing anymore.

What ever the circumstances there was nothing traditionally Australian about his campaign.




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:21pm

Danny O'Brien's Career Group 1 Wins


2020 SA Derby - 2500m (Russian Camelot)

2019 VRC Oaks - 2500m (Miami Bound)

2019 Melbourne Cup - 3200m (Vow And Declare)

2014 Australian Guineas - 1600m (Shamus Award)

2013 Cox Plate - 2040m (Shamus Award)

2013 Newmarket Handicap - 1200m (Shame Express)

2011 AJC Derby - 2400m (Shamrocker)

2011 Australian Guineas -1600m (Shamrocker)

2010 Coolmore Stud Stakes - 1200m (Star Witness)

2010 Blue Diamond Stakes - 1200m (Star Witness)

2008 Yalumba Stakes - 2000m (Douro Valley)

2008 Winter Stakes - 1400m (Absolute Glam)

2008 Robert Sangster Stakes - 1200m (Juste Momente)

2007 Caulfield Cup - 2400m (Master O'Reilly)

2005 Emirates Stakes - 1600m (Valedictum)

2005 Salinger Stakes - 1200m (Glamour Puss)

2005 Adelaide Cup - 3200m (Demerger)

2005 Goodwood Handicap - 1200m (Glamour Puss)

2001 Coolmore Claasic - 1500m (Porto Roca)

Total: 19

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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:21pm
There is no such thing as Australian bred??? Well all those demented restricted sales races will tell you otherwise...

You are wrr...., you are wrrrrrrr....

C’mon, Fonzie, you can say it.


Posted By: max manewer
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:26pm
You seem to have latterly found a combative streak in yourself Judge, from what I recall of you ? No more Mr Nice Guy ?


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:33pm
Point out what is wrong with what I’m saying...someone. The only concern in here seems to be that I’m saying it.

Make of that what you will.


Posted By: max manewer
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:35pm
What are you saying, in a nutshell ?


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:36pm
Our horses are garbage.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Point out what is wrong with what I’m saying...someone. The only concern in here seems to be that I’m saying it.

Make of that what you will.

Keep going, I am happy to debate. 


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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Our horses are garbage.

I refuse to accept that.

They are virtually the same breed as Europe as a whole.




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:38pm
I know you are, but you have no argument. Because there is none.


Posted By: max manewer
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:39pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Our horses are garbage.

The distance horses are certainly not as strong as the sprinters, who would be competitive anywhere.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Our horses are garbage.

I refuse to accept that.

They are virtually the same breed as Europe as a whole.



And Japan yadayadayda... except they keep flogging us.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:49pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Our horses are garbage.

The distance horses are certainly not as strong as the sprinters, who would be competitive anywhere.

Well that’s the understatement of the century...

When I started following the caper we won Japan Cups. Imagine saying that to someone these days..they’d avoid eye contact and back slowly toward the door.

I used to assume our sprinters were the best on the planet but I’m not even sure of that these days. We’ve bred ourselves down a rabbit hole with ridiculous restricted sales juvenile racing. 

The overseas horses/imports are flogging us.


Posted By: max manewer
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:53pm
The vast majority of races, and prizemoney, is in races a mile or shorter, so that is where the breeding emphasis is.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:57pm
Apart from the suffix all these pedigrees could have been from Europe or Japan.



TERERAS (AUS)Brown filly 2016 
Toronado
Bay 2010
High Chaparral
Bay 1999
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Kasora
Brown 1993
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Delsy
1975
1972
1-l
13-c
Kozana
Brown 1982
Kris
Koblenza
1976
1966
2-o
1-n
Wana Doo
Bay 2000
Grand Slam
Bay or brown 1995
Gone West
Bay 1984
Mr Prospector
Secrettame
1970
1978
13-c
2-f
Bright Candles
Chestnut 1987
El Gran Senor
Christmas Bonus
1981
1978
8-f
9-c
Wedding Gift
Bay or brown 1993
Always Fair
Bay 1985
Danzig
Carduel
1977
1978
7-a
19-b
Such Style
Bay 1977
Sassafras
Regal Lady
1967
1970
8-c
1-d
Kellys Ocean Jewel
Bay 2005
Dansili
Bay or brown 1996
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Hasili
Bay 1991
Kahyasi
Bay 1985
Ile de Bourbon
Kadissya
1975
1979
4-i
5-e
Kerali
Chestnut 1984
High Line
Sookera
1966
1975
5-e
11>
Trellis Bay
Bay 1996
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Bahamian
Chestnut 1985
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Milan Mill
1960
1962
19-b
22-d
Sorbus
Bay 1975
Busted
Censorship
1963
1969
2-s
19>
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 5m,4m Sadler's Wells3m x 3f Danzig5m x 4m


FIFTY STARS (IRE)Bay colt 2015 
Sea the Stars
Bay 2006
Cape Cross
Bay or brown 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Foreign Courier
Bay 1979
Sir Ivor
Courtly Dee
1965
1968
8-g
A4
Park Appeal
Bay or brown 1982
Ahonoora
Chestnut 1975
Lorenzaccio
Helen Nichols
1965
1966
5-h
1-m
Balidaress
Grey 1973
Balidar
Innocence
1966
1968
8-d
14-c
Urban Sea
Chestnut 1989
Miswaki
Chestnut 1978
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Hopespringseternal
Chestnut 1971
Buckpasser
Rose Bower
1963
1958
1-s
16-g
Allegretta
Chestnut 1978
Lombard
Chestnut 1967
Agio
Promised Lady
1955
1961
9-h
1-d
Anatevka
Chestnut 1969
Espresso
Almyra
1958
1962
7-a
9-h
Swizzle Stick
Bay 2007
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Brown 1954
Nearco
Lady Angela
1935
1944
4-r
14-c
Natalma
Bay 1957
Native Dancer
Almahmoud
1950
1947
5-f
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Bay 1968
Hail to Reason
Lalun
1958
1952
4-n
19-b
Special
Bay 1969
Forli
Thong
1963
1964
3-b
5-h
Viz
Bay 2002
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Bay 1975
Mill Reef
Hardiemma
1968
1969
22-d
1-l
Delsy
Brown 1972
Abdos
Kelty
1959
1965
1-e
13-c
For Example
Bay 1992
Northern Baby
Bay 1976
Northern Dancer
Two Rings
1961
1970
2-d
17-b
Bold Example
Bay 1969
Bold Lad
Lady Be Good
1962
1956
5-f
8-h
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m x 3m,5m       


RUSSIAN CAMELOT (IRE)Bay colt 2017 
Camelot
Bay or brown 2009
Montjeu
Bay 1996
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Floripedes
Bay 1985
Top Ville
Bay 1976
High Top
Sega Ville
1969
1968
11-a
8-i
Toute Cy
Bay 1979
Tennyson
Adele Toumignon
1970
1971
1-t
1-u
Tarfah
Bay 2001
Kingmambo
Bay 1990
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Miesque
Bay 1984
Nureyev
Pasadoble
1977
1979
5-h
20>
Fickle
Bay 1996
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Razyana
1977
1981
7-a
2-d
Fade
Bay 1988
Persepolis
One Over Parr
1979
1972
4-n
4-o
Lady Babooshka
Bay 2011
Cape Cross
Bay or brown 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Foreign Courier
Bay 1979
Sir Ivor
Courtly Dee
1965
1968
8-g
A4
Park Appeal
Bay or brown 1982
Ahonoora
Chestnut 1975
Lorenzaccio
Helen Nichols
1965
1966
5-h
1-m
Balidaress
Grey 1973
Balidar
Innocence
1966
1968
8-d
14-c
Balalaika
Bay 1993
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Bella Colora
Bay 1982
Bellypha
Grey 1976
Lyphard
Belga
1969
1968
17-b
16-b
Reprocolor
Chestnut 1976
Jimmy Reppin
Blue Queen
1965
1967
7-d
13-e
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 5m,4m Sadler's Wells3m x 3f Danzig5m x 4m


DALASAN (AUS)Chestnut colt 2016 
Dalakhani
Grey 2000
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Bay 1975
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Milan Mill
1960
1962
19-b
22-d
Hardiemma
Bay 1969
Hardicanute
Grand Cross
1962
1952
3-j
1-l
Delsy
Brown 1972
Abdos
Bay or brown 1959
Arbar
Pretty Lady
1944
1942
9-e
1-e
Kelty
Bay 1965
Venture
Marilla
1957
1957
7>
13-c
Daltawa
Grey 1989
Miswaki
Chestnut 1978
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Hopespringseternal
Chestnut 1971
Buckpasser
Rose Bower
1963
1958
1-s
16-g
Damana
Grey 1981
Crystal Palace
Grey 1974
Caro
Hermieres
1967
1958
3-o
10-e
Denia
Chestnut 1973
Crepello
Rose Ness
1954
1965
16-d
9-e
Khandallah
Brown 2008
Kitten's Joy
Chestnut 2001
El Prado
Grey 1989
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Lady Capulet
Grey 1974
Sir Ivor
Cap and Bells
1965
1958
8-g
1-l
Kitten's First
Bay 1991
Lear Fan
Bay 1981
Roberto
Wac
1969
1969
12-c
20>
That's My Hon
Chestnut 1983
L'Enjoleur
One Lane
1972
1961
4-g
2-d
La Rochelle
Bay 2003
Honour and Glory
Bay 1993
Relaunch
Grey 1976
In Reality
Foggy Note
1964
1965
21-a
3-o
Fair to All
Bay 1986
Al Nasr
Gonfalon
1978
1975
4-r
16-a
Milaoshu
Bay 1985
Fappiano
Bay 1977
Mr Prospector
Killaloe
1970
1970
13-c
16-a
Turtle Cove
Bay or brown 1970
Dr Fager
Sunny Cove
1964
1957
1-r
1-l
 Ancestor duplications:Mr Prospector4m x 5m


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 12:04am
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

The vast majority of races, and prizemoney, is in races a mile or shorter, so that is where the breeding emphasis is.

The Melbourne Cup, Caulfield Cup, Cox Plate? These aren’t lucrative?

But if you have (two) restricted sales 2yo races worn 2 million each, who cares, right? Instant money, baby. 

We used to be good. Now we’re crap. And we deserve every bit of it.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 12:13am
I think Anthony Van Dyck, Highland Reel and Cape Of Good Hope suggest other wise.

-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 12:19am
At 3 years and 40 days he is not the youngest horse to win a Derby in Australia but I think he is the first Northern bred to do so.

 Ever since James White took 3 Australian breds to the UK to campaign for the English Derby in 1890 it has been considered a bridge too far because of the 6th month advantage the northern breds have.  Only Kirkham (Chester - La Princesse) made it into the race and he finished 7th and second last.  

Likewise the northern breds are disadvantaged when contesting age restricted races in Australia - although you wouldn't know it on the strength of Russian Camelot's win at Morphettville.


Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 10:44am
It is a shame they had to abort the English Derby prep as he would have to have been a big chance.

And as i mentioned in another thread, unless Addeybb or any topliner from Europe or Japan comes, I can't see anything in the country that would challenge him at 2000m and beyond. Although Verry Ellegant and Master of Wine could provide a decent challenge.


-------------
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world.


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 10:48am
early days folks, early day💡


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 10:56am
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

It is a shame they had to abort the English Derby prep as he would have to have been a big chance.

And as i mentioned in another thread, unless Addeybb or any topliner from Europe or Japan comes, I can't see anything in the country that would challenge him at 2000m and beyond. Although Verry Ellegant and Master of Wine could provide a decent challenge.

I know this would be unpopular but I would love Ballydoyle to buy this colt and aim him at The Pommy Derby whenever that might be.

It aint going to be in June and the horse would ultimately look good on their stallion roster.

YES, I would like him to stay in training at least another year.

He will ultimately end up at Coolmore or Shadai.





-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 12:33pm
Epsom Derby to be run early July ... or maybe never.

-------------
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron



Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 12:48pm
My friend Adam Blencowe who does the Timeform Australia ratings at Racing and Sports said this via Twitter earlier this morning in regards to the South Australia Derby win (2500m) by Russian Camelot:

"No longer TBD. Timeform rating of 122. Best in the modern history of the SA Derby. Move over Mummify, Big Pat and Subzero. And higher than the Vic and NSW equivalents (both winners 115) as well. And did it with plenty against. Some win"

So to me Russian Camelot will be big chance in this year's Melbourne Cup and has the same profile as northern hemisphere 3 year-old Cup winners Rekindling and Cross Counter and that is - high Timeform rating, light weight, young horse. Only difference is Russian Camelot is already in Australia and doesnt need to acclimatise where as Rekindling/Cross Counter ran first up in Australia in the Melbourne Cup.

-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Lord Hybrow
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:04pm
What weight does RC get allocated for the Caulfield & Melb Cups?

As a G1 Derby winner, you’d expect more than the similarly aged Cross Counter 51 & Rekindling 51.5, both of who were G2/3 performers as NH 3yo’s.



Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:09pm
Lord Hybrow - in the range of 52kg - 52.5kg.

Also for those interested, as a comparison Subzero rated at 116 (Timeform) for his win in the SA Derby in 1992, he went on to win the Melbourne Cup later that year. Mummify rated at 117 (Timeform) for his win in the 2003 SA Derby, he went on to win the Caulfield Cup later that year. Russian Camelot rated at 122 (Timeform) for his SA Derby win..best rating in the modern history of the race.

-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:25pm
Our horses aren't garbage. They're just not here.


Posted By: Baguette
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:27pm
So your saying that Timeform think that the SA Derby was the strongest Derby run this year? I must be missing something but maybe someone could explain why?


Posted By: Shawy38
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:34pm
Exactly right TJ
Any horse with a glimpse of ability these days ends up in Asia


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:51pm
Shawy thats not true. Not all horses with an ounce of ability end up in Asia. You need to be more specific.

-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:56pm
Baguette - not sure about Timeform's reasoning. But the win was impressive. Both winners of the Vic and NSW Derbies rated at 115 (Timeform), Russian Camelot rated at 122.

-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Lord Hybrow Lord Hybrow wrote:

What weight does RC get allocated for the Caulfield & Melb Cups?

As a G1 Derby winner, you’d expect more than the similarly aged Cross Counter 51 & Rekindling 51.5, both of who were G2/3 performers as NH 3yo’s.



They whack the ATC derby winner up to an unwinnable weight every spring no matter how ordinary the race was and this years SA derby rates higher than them so 56, 57kg.Big smile


-------------
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron



Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 2:13pm
Baguette the VRC Derby is usually weak as immature 3yos. ATC Derby this year was on a big track and the fancy runners like castelvecchio, shadow hero, warning were not effective for one reason or another. Look at form of Rosehill and Randwick guineas and it is obvious who the top 3yos were.

That form didn't stand up on the bog. Ramadan went to another level once he was finally stepped up beyond a mile and warnings two runs against him show the level of that form vs rh and rw guineas.

And the fact Russian Camelot did what he did and was eased late shows how good he was and that he was the best of this year's Derby winners as some of us predicted pre race that this was the strongest Derby of season.

-------------
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world.


Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 2:25pm
Ramadan equals dalasan, damn autocorrect!

-------------
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world.


Posted By: Shawy38
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Shawy thats not true. Not all horses with an ounce of ability end up in Asia. You need to be more specific.


Are you serious


Posted By: Grey Affair
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

So your saying that Timeform think that the SA Derby was the strongest Derby run this year? I must be missing something but maybe someone could explain why?


It would be because Russian Camelot was a Northern Hemisphere bred colt but carried the same weight as the rest of the field. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, if it was a WFA race, he would have received considerable weight from the ANZ bred runners (possibly 4.5 kg).



Posted By: Grey Affair
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 2:54pm
He was foaled on 29 March 2017.



Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by Shawy38 Shawy38 wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Shawy thats not true. Not all horses with an ounce of ability end up in Asia. You need to be more specific.


Are you serious



Well Winx didnt go to Asia, neither did So You Think. Lots of horses with in your words "an ounce of ability" have stayed in Australia.

-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 3:10pm

Reference: https://www.racing.com/news/2020-05-10/news-options-open-with-camelot" rel="nofollow - https://www.racing.com/news/2020-05-10/news-options-open-with-camelot


Options open with Camelot

Brad Bishop@bradbishop12

12:48pm

Russian Camelot is now favourite for this year’s Melbourne Cup, but Danny O’Brien has not limited his sights to Australia’s most famous race with the boom colt.

The Flemington trainer is happy to consider all options with the Northern Hemisphere-bred three-year-old, who sensationally won Saturday’s South Australian Derby (2500m).

The Caulfield Cup (2400m) and Cox Plate (2040m), Australia’s premier middle-distance weight-for-race, are also on the table.

“He’s only had the five runs, so it’s a little bit hard to assess whether he could line up against the best horses in Australasia in the Cox Plate or whether we’d stick to the handicaps like the Caulfield and the Melbourne Cups,” O’Brien said.

Along with heading BetEasy’s Melbourne Cup market at $13, Russian Camelot is $11 equal favourite with Master Of Wine in the Caulfield Cup and a $21 chance in Cox Plate betting.

The Group 1 Makybe Diva Stakes (1600m) at his home track of Flemington shapes as a telling early assignment.

“We’ll just give him the chance over the next few months to mature and then we’ll kick off in something like the Makybe Diva,” O’Brien told RSN927’s Correct Weight.

“Maybe the Makybe Diva then the Turnbull (2000m) and that will tell us where he goes.

“There’s probably a good case for saying in the spring he could win a big race at the mile or certainly a mile and a quarter, he probably does have that little bit more versatility than Vow And Declare.”



-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by Shawy38 Shawy38 wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Shawy thats not true. Not all horses with an ounce of ability end up in Asia. You need to be more specific.


Are you serious



Well Winx didnt go to Asia, neither did So You Think. Lots of horses with in your words "an ounce of ability" have stayed in Australia.



 

Well, Jamal, it’s clear you’re just playing semantics 


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 3:31pm
What was the best performed Australian horse ever sold to HK? Best performed in Australia.


-------------
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron



Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 3:43pm
Beauty Generation goes 👍 

To be trained next by Hayes as per racing.com


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:



“There’s probably a good case for saying in the spring he could win a big race at the mile or certainly a mile and a quarter, he probably does have that little bit more versatility than Vow And Declare.”



I don't know the name of the program nor science but Dan referenced it this morning on RSN in saying Vow & Declare tests more dour than RC,who has a much sharper profile.
He could quite conceivably have the Cox Plate in mind.



-------------
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Lopartega
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 4:12pm
The science refers to specific gene groupings found in thoroughbreds. Sprinters (1000mts-1400mts)have in general a CC grouping. Middle distance horses (1600mts-2400mts) have a CT grouping and stayers (2400+) have a TT grouping. Vow and Declare has a TT and Russian Camelot a CT. Of course this isn't an exact science so variances will always occur


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 4:19pm
sadly my horses have had a eeyore eeyore rating🥵


Posted By: Shawy38
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 5:30pm
That’s two examples Jamal

Look at the hundreds that are exported every year

Take your blinkers off


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 5:33pm
Suspect we might be drifting off topic.  Wink


Posted By: Summer Regent
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 5:59pm
According to Dominic Beirne, the 122 Timeform rating for Russian Camelot includes 10lbs differential Southern-Northern Hemisphere, which makes it less impressive than at first glance.

Still, an amazing win, very impressive.


Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 10 May 2020 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

Ramadan equals dalasan, damn autocorrect!

It was a timely mistake though kavg.  I thought you might have been getting hungry.  LOL



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