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second opinion

Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Breeding - Public Forums
Forum Name: Conformation
Forum Description: Discuss horse conformation, anatomy, athleticism, size and type
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=64611
Printed Date: 29 Mar 2024 at 4:31pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: second opinion
Posted By: v and m
Subject: second opinion
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 6:31pm
I'm part owner of this horse and when I got this photo I saw something that I've seen in other horses and knew what it is but when I told the trainer he said he had never heard of it and I needed glasses and my partner laughed. so without telling you all what it is so I can't be accused of leading people to what I see could you please have a good look at the photo and tell me if you can see anything wrong with him. I am hoping I'm wrong though and others can't see anything too, it just means I'll have to go to spec savers.
thankyou





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ZAMINGA



Replies:
Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 6:57pm
Hello again v &m, long time no hear.

First a question and a comment ie:

how old is he, and please don't say it's about his feet.

Over to you and others.

ps photos do tell lies.


Posted By: SkyDancer
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 7:11pm
Can’t see anything out of the ordinary from the photo angle


Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 7:47pm
3 years old but the particular condition I see in him I have seen in another not much older than him

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ZAMINGA


Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 7:48pm
yah its been a while, been busy :)

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ZAMINGA


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 7:56pm
NH pastern swelling.


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: GAJ
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:11pm
NH as Gay says, It also looks longer and thickened, but may be the way the photo is taken. quite straight through Hind legs. Post Legged??


Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

NH pastern swelling.


he is still running trackwork and swimming so could he possibly have that and still be going well in those activities?


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ZAMINGA


Posted By: GAJ
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by v and m v and m wrote:

Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

NH pastern swelling.


he is still running trackwork and swimming so could he possibly have that and still be going well in those activities?
 
Yes if its an old injury or condition that he's lived with and it doesn't worry him.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:28pm
All I see then, is a nicely enough conformed horse! Pity about the boots tho', I hate them with a passion as they cause more problems than they'll ever prevent & shouldn't be necessary with correctly balanced feet.


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:36pm
Maybe angle of forelegs to shoulder, maybe lack of hindquarter, but those possibilities along with the earlier mentioned pastern would be understood by the trainer.

So it's presumably something more obscure.


Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:40pm
hope you guys are right about the NH swelling and its not something more serious. hopefully he doesn't go lame again when racing.
also he has always had those boots on in training and never had any problems with his front legs so...


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ZAMINGA


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 9:59pm
I think he may have a developing ringbone problem in that n/h, he's quite straight in the hocks , not a fan of boots either unless bandaged under them, sand build up can cause chaffing which can lead to infection .


Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

I think he may have a developing ringbone problem in that n/h, he's quite straight in the hocks , not a fan of boots either unless bandaged under them, sand build up can cause chaffing which can lead to infection .


that's actually what I was thinking when I saw it :S

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ZAMINGA


Posted By: JoH
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 11:38pm
The n/h swelling and possible developing ringbone is what jumped out at me  v & m ... and add me to the list of boot haters too.    
JMO but  no good will come from leaving them on a second too long







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suck it up ... Life isn't run at w.f.a. :)


Posted By: Spearmint
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 12:58am
Also agree as above about swelling and potential ringbone on near hind pastern.

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"Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come"


Posted By: GAJ
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 8:39am
Ringbone manifests along the coronet band but a vet would probably be the one to say.
 
The bandage boots thing I agree with Gay, unless the horse is awkward in its movement, thus hitting its own tendons in work then I wouldn't use them, the heat caused by them in work can degrade the structure of the fibres in the tendon sheath, therefore weakening them.


Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 3:55pm
thanks everyone for your input. we'll see how he goes and I'll question the trainer about the boots.

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ZAMINGA


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 8:51pm
Whilst some very good judges have identified the near hind as a problem it's perhaps important to remember that photos of white pasterns/joints can sometimes give a false impression.

And even if the comments are indeed correct, which is very possible, I don't really believe they were the actual focus of V & M's concerns.

Tick, tick....




Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 10:24pm
just to give some background history. he was given corrective farrier work on that hoof because he toed out.

he was going really well in trackwork when he had his first prep but then he had to get gelded. got an infection from it, had to be rested in the stable which he didn't seem to like because his behaviour got a lot worst (kicking and biting people, broke his handler's finger) and some of us thought he needed to go out for a spell but trainer persisted with him and so he resumed normal work.
he calmed down and seemed a lot happier being able to go for a run and got a lot better after 2 barrier trials.
We then sent him out for a spell and he spent the first week mostly laying down in the paddock (growth spurt).
came back 6 weeks later I think and showing good signs of having gotten better but then about a week before putting him in his 2nd race his trackworker said there was something wrong, he wasn't extending like before but when trainer checked him over he could find nothing so he kept going with him. Entered him in a race and he ended up going lame. Vet checked him, gave him a radiogragh and swelling noted in LH pastern but vet said nothing else.
he was treated for it and then raced again when he was given vet clearance. He went lame again and vet looked him over again and this is the report:

Confirming that I examined him following a poor performance the week prior. He had previously been lame left hind and had his left hind pastern joint xrayed and injected.

He wasn’t lame when examined, and no abnormalities were noted on endoscope or cardiac examination.

While this doesn’t give a reason for his poor performance, I would still be suspicious of it being because of the left hind pastern, given the nature of his xray changes.


Nothing else was said so it left us scratching our heads.    


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ZAMINGA


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 11:58pm
Some obscure reasons for lameness
cracked pedal bone, which can take time to show on xray, the horse can be lame on different surfaces eg lame in sand but not on firm
abcess in the bone, fetlock a "common" area, literally a hole in the bone, end of racing career. Cant remember the term for it.
a gas in the hoof wall moving down, therefore intermittently lame. Will mean a large area of hoof wall to be parred away to release bad area.

 Getting the "right" vet and farrier will be the key. 




Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 12:09am
Bone cyst
Most joint disease in the horse is as a result of wear and tear but there are a few conditions that have a definite cause such as chip fractures and osteochondrosis. Another relatively common cause of joint disease occurs following the development of a bone cyst (or, correctly speaking, an osseous cyst-like lesion).
https://clydevetgroup.co.uk/bone-cysts-horse" rel="nofollow - https://clydevetgroup.co.uk/bone-cysts-horse


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 12:17am
The "swelling" in the bone you can see is probably a result of new bone being laid down as a result of changed dynamics eg new farrier work and the bones reaction to that and the underlying cause of the lameness.


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 12:24am
“What causes the pain isn't just the inflammation, but the physical accumulation of pus and often gas, if it's anaerobic bacteria, inside the hoof capsule. It can do a lot of damage to the hoof capsule and the hoof wall if they're not able to get the pus out and drain the abscess where you can treat it directly.”Sep 26, 2017
https://www.usef.org/tune-in/equestrian-weekly/hoof-abscesses-tips-for-treatment-prevention" rel="nofollow -



Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 12:27am
https://www.naturalhorseworld.com/hoof-abscess/" rel="nofollow - https://www.naturalhorseworld.com/hoof-abscess/


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 12:31am
"Last year I nearly had one of my horses PTS as he had been lame for over 5 months on first one leg then the other and nothing was helping, vet couldn't make him react to hoof testers and nothing found on X-ray. I poulticed for weeks: nothing. Bute: nothing. Finally an abscess broke out at the heel, but still very lame 2 weeks on, so 2nd, braver, vet dug a HUGE hole in the sole of the OTHER hoof and found horrible, black, nasty gunk. More poulticing, nappying, etc. and now.......I have a completely sound horse! So hang in there and be prepared for the long haul. I would never have thought that a horse could be so lame for so long with such a simple cause, nor that both front feet could be affected. Poor little man; he's very stoic.
Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/longest-abscess-experiences-please.689527/#xstAhbsMFZ11H1DP.99" rel="nofollow - https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/longest-abscess-experiences-please.689527/#xstAhbsMFZ11H1DP.99"


Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

Some obscure reasons for lameness
cracked pedal bone, which can take time to show on xray, the horse can be lame on different surfaces eg lame in sand but not on firm
abcess in the bone, fetlock a "common" area, literally a hole in the bone, end of racing career. Cant remember the term for it.
a gas in the hoof wall moving down, therefore intermittently lame. Will mean a large area of hoof wall to be parred away to release bad area.

 Getting the "right" vet and farrier will be the key. 




that's a possibility since when he started going bad was when track got wet and both times he got lame was on a slow track.
thanks for all the possible reasons, its given me plenty to think about, maybe too much

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ZAMINGA


Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 3:42pm
well...I sold him 2 weeks ago and he goes and wins his first race today :S
still cheered him on the whole way

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ZAMINGA


Posted By: Sister Dot
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 4:27pm
The vet we had out one day commented “at uni we are taught if a horse is non weight bearing, the first two things to look at are abscess or fracture.
So many times people think the horse is sore in the shoulder....but my experience is it usually ends up being an abscess.
Having said that we picked our horses up from bushy paddock agistment, when we returned from hols. Gelding lame, thought for sure ‘abcess’. Ended up being a quarter crack of the pedal bone 🙁 Two years later and after much treatment, we had to give up and gave him away as a companion horse. Our best paint riding horse, a joy to own.
Fracture, the young vet was on point. The corner diagonal rack was the downfall.

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“Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined”


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 5:49pm
What's his name? Does anyone know Confused


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 6:00pm
Zapluck I think.


Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 6:04pm
zapluck

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ZAMINGA


Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 6:12pm
should have listened to the jockey who said that the horse keeps on choking down the start before. this was the first time with a tongue tie on. I have also always thought that he got nervous when horses were running on the outside of him (like his mother) so I think he got the kind of run that he preferred.   

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ZAMINGA


Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 6:18pm
still have his brother though who has better conformation, stronger looking and is mentally tougher. Zapluck is the kind gentle kids pony type and his younger brother is the leader of the herd type who doesn't get frightened by other horses. so hopefully the next one is better :)

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ZAMINGA



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