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Bred To Stay

Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Racing - Public Forums
Forum Name: Racing Forum
Forum Description: General discussion about thoroughbred horse racing
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=47250
Printed Date: 11 Aug 2020 at 3:42am


Topic: Bred To Stay
Posted By: Hot2Trot
Subject: Bred To Stay
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 9:52am
Thought I would start a thread for those of us who like to identify potential stayers on their breeding.  Particularly horses likely to improve when they step up in distance.



Replies:
Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 9:54am
Pendolin.  By Pentire out of a Zabeel mare.  Full sister to Pergola who won over 3000m.  Last start winner over 1400m at Warwick Farm.


Posted By: Group 1 Selections
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 10:33am
TEAR GAS (NZ) [2010] 3yo b f 12/11/2010
http://horseform.racingandsports.com.au/viewStallion.asp?lan=&id=3AD4E775141E8FDB40922E346D" rel="nofollow - High Chaparral (IRE) - http://horseform.racingandsports.com.au/viewHorse.asp?lan=&id=39D4EC79147F93D55E8D22" rel="nofollow - Irlanda (NZ) (O'reilly (NZ)) http://www.racingandsports.com.au/SalesResults/NZBloodstock/2012/159_2012%20Premier%20Yearling%20Sale/159_0252.html" rel="nofollow - Pedigree
 
High Chap x an O'reilly mare, her dam though was better over the shorter trips which should make up for the dourness of some O'Reilly's.


Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 10:48am
Originally posted by Group 1 Selections Group 1 Selections wrote:

TEAR GAS (NZ) [2010] 3yo b f 12/11/2010
http://horseform.racingandsports.com.au/viewStallion.asp?lan=&id=3AD4E775141E8FDB40922E346D" rel="nofollow -


Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 10:50am
Originally posted by Hot2Trot Hot2Trot wrote:

Pendolin.  By Pentire out of a Zabeel mare.  Full sister to Pergola who won over 3000m.  Last start winner over 1400m at Warwick Farm.
 
Racing in 1400m mares at Rosehill.  Might be on the short side, but she can sprint home strongly.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 10:53am
Interestingly, of Imposing, Centaine, Zabeel and O'Rielly none of them where stayers. A mile was where they won their big races.




-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 11:02am
Yes it is interesting.  They obviously carry staying blood though.  Just a thought, but perhaps that's a good ingredient for a sire - to have staying blood but excel at a mile.


Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 11:08am
Yeah, O'Reilly was a sprinter-miler yet he's sired many 2000m+ horses.  Now has a reputation as a staying sire.  

Pentire most definitely a stayer and sire of such, yet he's produces some top class horses who struggle beyond a mile like King Mufhasa and Rangirangdoo.

Of course we should never forget that the sire is only half the pedigree.


Posted By: msbcooper
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 12:43pm
Another Prayer

About to jump at Randwick, Race 2


Posted By: Racing Carrot
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Group 1 Selections Group 1 Selections wrote:

TEAR GAS (NZ) [2010] 3yo b f 12/11/2010
http://horseform.racingandsports.com.au/viewStallion.asp?lan=&id=3AD4E775141E8FDB40922E346D" rel="nofollow - 1st dam

IRLANDA, by O'Reilly. 6 wins from 1200m to 1600m, NZ$300,125, Counties RC Auckland Thoroughbred Breeders' S., Gr.2, Manawatu RC Eulogy S., Gr.3, Rotorua RC Lion Red P., L, Hawke's Bay Bay Ford H., 2d Te Aroha JC New Zealand Thoroughbred Breeders' S., Gr.1, ARC Westbury Classic, Hawke's Bay DHL Global H., BOP RC Ultimate Motor Group Ford 3YO H., 3d ARC Eight Carat Classic, Gr.2, 4th Waikato RC Sir Tristram Fillies Classic, Gr.2. Half-sister to Go Our Kingi - Maverick Star(H.K.). This is her second foal. Her first foal is a 2YO.

2nd dam

CENPHIC, by Centaine. Winner at 1000m in Aust. Dam of 7 named foals, all raced, 5 winners, inc:-

IRLANDA(O'Reilly). 6 wins. See above.

Go Our Kingi - Maverick Star(H.K.) (Desert King). 4 wins from 1300m to 1600m, NZ$11,625, HK$4,239,750, M$299,000, Marton JC Rural Bulk Spreaders 3YO S., Hong Kong Racehorse Owners Association Trophy H., HKJC Kiu Tsui H., 2d Hong Kong Jockey Club Community Trophy, 3d Macau Hong Kong Trophy, L, 4th WRC Wellington S., Gr.3.

Cristal Magnum. 2 wins at 1200m, 1400m to 2010-11, HKJC Pyramid Hill H., Kut Cheong H., 2d HKJC Chengdu H.

Ottumwa. 3 wins from 1550m to 1750m, 2d WATC Puntathon H.

3rd dam

SERAPHIC, by Imposing. 8 wins from 1600m to 2200m, NZ$141,260, Rotorua Challenge S., Gr.3, 2d ARC Air New Zealand S., Gr.1, Waikato RC International S., Gr.2, ARC Trainers' Championship S., Gr.3, Manawatu Challenge S., L, Canterbury Breeders' S.H., L, 4th Waikato RC International S., Gr.1, Wairarapa Thoroughbred Breeders' S., L. Half-sister to QUEEN OF KIWI, Sekula Pata, Quiescent (dam of BIRD, HAPPY GILMOUR - SMOOTH SAILING(Mal.)). Dam of 10 foals, 8 to race, 6 winners, inc:-

Tornadic Sky. 8 wins to 1200m, A$189,150, QTC Tooheys New H, BTC Play Poker for Free H., Greenback RSL Hero's H., Ipswich TC Ray White P.

Deep Purple. Winner at 2200m, HKJC Po Shek Wu H., 2d HKJC Hyderabad H.

4th dam

TORQUAY, by Wharf. 4 wins from 1200m to 2400m, Great Northern Oaks, Gr.2, Manawatu Breeders' S., Gr.3, Masterton RC Members' H., 3d Manawatu Cup, Gr.3, WRC Telfords H., 4th Manawatu RC Royal Hong Kong Jockey Club H., L. Blood-sister to Onshore (dam of SIR DANIEL), half-sister to (Our) Sacrosanct, Pearl Dragon (dam of SPRING RAIN). Dam of 13 named foals, all raced, 9 winners, inc:-

SERAPHIC(Imposing). 8 wins. See above.



Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 3:58pm
Not getting excited by Tear Gas.  I would have liked her to have shown more ability in those short maidens.


Posted By: Group 1 Selections
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by Hot2Trot Hot2Trot wrote:

Not getting excited by Tear Gas.  I would have liked her to have shown more ability in those short maidens.
 
I wasn't either until I saw her work and what she beat in her fast work with the rider not moving a muscle Wink


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 5:00pm
Scamanda tells me, Long John.   Out of... THE PUB ..By ...TEN O'CLOCK.
That's Shocking breeding.

-------------
LADIES, If You don't want to get POLINATED, Keep the PETALS CLOSED


Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 12:11pm
Pendolin was blocked for a run on Saturday and should probably have won, especially considering the leader bias.  Look for improvement when she steps up in distance.


Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2013 at 1:22pm
May's Dream, the VRC Oaks favourite is definitely bred to stay.  Her sire New Approach (by staying sire Galileo) won the 2008 Epsom Derby, and in England has already sired the winner of the Epsom Oaks, Talent.  In Australia, New Approach's oldest progeny are only 3yos, but he already has a staying winner in Gamblin Guru (Geelong Derby Trial).  May's Dream's dam is She's Archie, who ran second to Makybe Diva in the 2003 Melbourne Cup.  She's Archie no doubt inherited her stoutness from sire Archway and grandsire Almaarad.  There is very little doubt May's Dream will stay the VRC Oaks distance, and may even be a Melbourne Cup chance next year.


Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2013 at 2:21pm
Dawn Approach is an out and out miler..


Posted By: Run For Fun
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2013 at 2:36pm
Possibly because his dam Hymn of the Dawn is predominantly bred along sprinting lines.

-------------
It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers


Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2013 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by Run For Fun Run For Fun wrote:

Possibly because his dam Hymn of the Dawn is predominantly bred along sprinting lines.


Didn't stop the experts from running him in the Derby as fav...


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2013 at 4:02pm
Hawkspur?

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 4:55pm
Watch Sevva Nights in the opener at Moonee Valley tonight.

This horse is bred to stay and stay all-night.

Watch him chasing and busting a gut trying to keep up. This is the thing that annoys me about Australian trainers.

Hopefully it has not busted a clearly talented horse.




-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 4:58pm
SEVVA NIGHTS G, 2010 DP = 0-1-5-0-0 (6) DI = 1.40   CD = 0.17
http://www.pedigreequery.com/savabeel" rel="nofollow - SAVABEEL  (AUS)
br. 2001
http://www.pedigreequery.com/zabeel" rel="nofollow - ZABEEL  (NZ)
b. 1986
http://www.pedigreequery.com/sir+tristram" rel="nofollow - SIR TRISTRAM  (IRE)
b. 1971
http://www.pedigreequery.com/sir+ivor" rel="nofollow - SIR IVOR  (USA)
b. 1965 [IC]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/sir+gaylord" rel="nofollow - SIR GAYLORD  (USA)b. 1959 [IC]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/attica" rel="nofollow - ATTICA  (USA)ch. 1953 *
http://www.pedigreequery.com/isolt" rel="nofollow - ISOLT  (USA)
b. 1961
http://www.pedigreequery.com/round+table" rel="nofollow - ROUND TABLE  (USA)b. 1954 [S]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/all+my+eye" rel="nofollow - ALL MY EYE  (GB)ch. 1954
http://www.pedigreequery.com/lady+giselle" rel="nofollow - LADY GISELLE  (FR)
b. 1982
http://www.pedigreequery.com/nureyev" rel="nofollow - NUREYEV  (USA)
b. 1977 [C]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/northern+dancer" rel="nofollow - NORTHERN DANCER  (CAN)b. 1961 [BC]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/special" rel="nofollow - SPECIAL  (USA)b. 1969 *
http://www.pedigreequery.com/valderna" rel="nofollow - VALDERNA  (FR)
b. 1972
http://www.pedigreequery.com/val+de+loir" rel="nofollow - VAL DE LOIR  (FR)b. 1959
http://www.pedigreequery.com/derna" rel="nofollow - DERNA  (FR)b. 1961
http://www.pedigreequery.com/savannah+success" rel="nofollow - SAVANNAH SUCCESS  (AUS)
br. 1995
http://www.pedigreequery.com/success+express" rel="nofollow - SUCCESS EXPRESS  (USA)
b. 1985
http://www.pedigreequery.com/hold+your+peace" rel="nofollow - HOLD YOUR PEACE  (USA)
b. 1969
http://www.pedigreequery.com/speak+john" rel="nofollow - SPEAK JOHN  (USA)b. 1958 [BI]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/blue+moon2" rel="nofollow - BLUE MOON  (USA)b. 1948
http://www.pedigreequery.com/au+printemps" rel="nofollow - AU PRINTEMPS  (USA)
b. 1979
http://www.pedigreequery.com/dancing+champ" rel="nofollow - DANCING CHAMP  (USA)b. 1972
http://www.pedigreequery.com/lorgnette2" rel="nofollow - LORGNETTE  (IRE)ch. 1964
http://www.pedigreequery.com/alma+mater6" rel="nofollow - ALMA MATER  (AUS)
br. 1988
http://www.pedigreequery.com/semipalatinsk" rel="nofollow - SEMIPALATINSK  (USA)
b. 1978
http://www.pedigreequery.com/nodouble" rel="nofollow - NODOUBLE  (USA)ch. 1965 [CP]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/school+board" rel="nofollow - SCHOOL BOARD  (USA)b. 1968
http://www.pedigreequery.com/sweetie5" rel="nofollow - SWEETIE  (AUS)
br. 1981
http://www.pedigreequery.com/without+fear" rel="nofollow - WITHOUT FEAR  (FR)b. 1967
http://www.pedigreequery.com/virginia17" rel="nofollow - VIRGINIA  (AUS)br. 1972
http://www.pedigreequery.com/clermont+rose" rel="nofollow - CLERMONT ROSE  (NZ)
b. 1991
http://www.pedigreequery.com/sound+reason" rel="nofollow - SOUND REASON  (CAN)
br. 1974
http://www.pedigreequery.com/bold+reason" rel="nofollow - BOLD REASON  (USA)
b. 1968
http://www.pedigreequery.com/hail+to+reason" rel="nofollow - HAIL TO REASON  (USA)
br. 1958 [C]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/turn-to" rel="nofollow - TURN-TO  (USA)b. 1951 [BI]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/nothirdchance" rel="nofollow - NOTHIRDCHANCE  (USA)b. 1948
http://www.pedigreequery.com/lalun" rel="nofollow - LALUN  (USA)*
b. 1952
http://www.pedigreequery.com/djeddah" rel="nofollow - DJEDDAH  (FR)ch. 1945
http://www.pedigreequery.com/be+faithful" rel="nofollow - BE FAITHFUL  (USA)br. 1942 *
http://www.pedigreequery.com/new+tune" rel="nofollow - NEW TUNE  (CAN)
b. 1968
http://www.pedigreequery.com/new+providence" rel="nofollow - NEW PROVIDENCE  (CAN)
b. 1956
http://www.pedigreequery.com/bull+page" rel="nofollow - BULL PAGE  (USA)b. 1947
http://www.pedigreequery.com/fair+colleen" rel="nofollow - FAIR COLLEEN  (GB)ch. 1950
http://www.pedigreequery.com/song+of+victory" rel="nofollow - SONG OF VICTORY  (CAN)
b. 1962
http://www.pedigreequery.com/victoria+park" rel="nofollow - VICTORIA PARK  (CAN)b. 1957
http://www.pedigreequery.com/evensong" rel="nofollow - EVENSONG  (GB)dkb/br. 1950
http://www.pedigreequery.com/clermont+lass" rel="nofollow - CLERMONT LASS  (NZ)
br. 1986
http://www.pedigreequery.com/centaine" rel="nofollow - CENTAINE  (AUS)
br. 1980
http://www.pedigreequery.com/century2" rel="nofollow - CENTURY  (AUS)
br. 1969
http://www.pedigreequery.com/better+boy" rel="nofollow - BETTER BOY  (IRE)b. 1951
http://www.pedigreequery.com/royal+suite3" rel="nofollow - ROYAL SUITE  (AUS)br. 1960
http://www.pedigreequery.com/rainbeam" rel="nofollow - RAINBEAM  (AUS)
b. 1973
http://www.pedigreequery.com/vain2" rel="nofollow - VAIN  (AUS)ch. 1966
http://www.pedigreequery.com/rain+shadow" rel="nofollow - RAIN SHADOW  (AUS)blk. 1967
http://www.pedigreequery.com/bourbon+lass2" rel="nofollow - BOURBON LASS  (NZ)
b. 1963
http://www.pedigreequery.com/bourbon+prince" rel="nofollow - BOURBON PRINCE  (USA)
b. 1957
http://www.pedigreequery.com/princequillo" rel="nofollow - PRINCEQUILLO  (IRE)b. 1940 [IS]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/lyceum" rel="nofollow - LYCEUM  (USA)b. 1948
http://www.pedigreequery.com/kilt3" rel="nofollow - KILT  (NZ)
b. 1956
http://www.pedigreequery.com/faux+tirage" rel="nofollow - FAUX TIRAGE  (GB)b. 1946
http://www.pedigreequery.com/haidie" rel="nofollow - HAIDIE  (NZ)ch. 1946


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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 5:36pm
You would think djebel, with Savabeel, Sound Reason and Centaine.  Maybe not though.  The dam Clermont Rose has had five to race.  Four were so slow they failed to earn any prizemoney.  The other one was a horse called Aspinal (by Pins) who won twice at 1200m and once at 1300m.


Posted By: Run For Fun
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 5:36pm
Well for mine he's a miler/middle distance type on pedigree.  But then again underestimate the Zabeel/Sir T element at your very own risk.

-------------
It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers


Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by Run For Fun Run For Fun wrote:

Well for mine he's a miler/middle distance type on pedigree.  But then again underestimate the Zabeel/Sir T element at your very own risk.
 
I wonder if you're thinking miler because of Sound Reason.  From memory he was a miler.  However at stud he's thrown quite a few stayers, including Senator winner of the 1996 Auckland Cup.


Posted By: Gerald
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 6:01pm

That Last Tycoon, sire of O’Reilly, ran mainly at 5f, and 6f, in Europe.  When he ran in the Breeders’ Cup Mile, that was one of the strongest feelings bettingwise I’ve ever had.  His damsire was Mill Reef, who needs no introduction.  Lower down in the pedigree is Sayavirao, who won the St Leger.

Last Tycoon’s average winning distance of his 3yo+ progeny is 9.5 furlongs.



Posted By: Gerald
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 6:20pm
lol, coincidence.  The winner of the 2500m h'cap at MV just now has Savabeel as sire and Last Tycoon as damsire.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 6:27pm
Originally posted by Gerald Gerald wrote:

That Last Tycoon, sire of O’Reilly, ran mainly at 5f, and 6f, in Europe.  When he ran in the Breeders’ Cup Mile, that was one of the strongest feelings bettingwise I’ve ever had.  His damsire was Mill Reef, who needs no introduction.  Lower down in the pedigree is Sayavirao, who won the St Leger.

Last Tycoon’s average winning distance of his 3yo+ progeny is 9.5 furlongs.


Last Tycoon is a little like Oasis Dream in my book. Both sprinters both with slightly more dour pedigrees than the typical sprinter.

LAST TYCOON (IRE)Bay or brown colt 1983 
Try My Best
Bay 1975
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Brown 1954
Nearco
Brown 1935
Pharos
Nogara
1920
1928
13-e
4-r
Lady Angela
Chestnut 1944
Hyperion
Sister Sarah
1930
1930
6-e
14-c
Natalma
Bay 1957
Native Dancer
Grey 1950
Polynesian
Geisha
1942
1943
14-a
5-f
Almahmoud
Chestnut 1947
Mahmoud
Arbitrator
1933
1937
9-c
2-d
Sex Appeal
Chestnut 1970
Buckpasser
Bay 1963
Tom Fool
Bay 1949
Menow
Gaga
1935
1942
8-g
3-j
Busanda
Black 1947
War Admiral
Businesslike
1934
1939
11-g
1-s
Best in Show
Chestnut 1965
Traffic Judge
Chestnut 1952
Alibhai
Traffic Court
1938
1938
6-d
3-n
Stolen Hour
Chestnut 1953
Mr Busher
Late Date
1946
1929
1-s
8-f
Mill Princess
Bay 1977
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Bay 1960
Nasrullah
Bay 1940
Nearco
Mumtaz Begum
1935
1932
4-r
9-c
Lalun
Bay 1952
Djeddah
Be Faithful
1945
1942
13-c
19-b
Milan Mill
Bay 1962
Princequillo
Bay 1940
Prince Rose
Cosquilla
1928
1933
10-c
1-b
Virginia Water
Grey 1953
Count Fleet
Red Ray
1940
1947
6-a
22-d
Irish Lass
Bay 1962
Sayajirao
Brown 1944
Nearco
Brown 1935
Pharos
Nogara
1920
1928
13-e
4-r
Rosy Legend
Brown 1931
Dark Legend
Rosy Cheeks
1914
1919
9-e
3-n
Scollata
Bay 1952
Niccolo Dell'Arca
Bay 1938
Coronach
Nogara
1923
1928
4-f
4-r
Cutaway
Bay 1943
Fairway
Schiaparelli
1925
1935
13-e
8-c
 Ancestor duplications:Nearco4m x 5m,4m Nogara5m x 5m,5m    


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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 6:28pm
And both are quality sires with quality representatives over vast distance range.

OASIS DREAM (GB)Bay colt 2000 
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Brown 1954
Nearco
Lady Angela
1935
1944
4-r
14-c
Natalma
Bay 1957
Native Dancer
Almahmoud
1950
1947
5-f
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Bay or brown 1959
Crafty Admiral
Olympia Lou
1948
1952
8-c
4-n
Petitioner
Bay 1952
Petition
Steady Aim
1944
1943
16-h
7-a
Foreign Courier
Bay 1979
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Bay 1959
Turn-To
Somethingroyal
1951
1952
1-w
2-s
Attica
Chestnut 1953
Mr Trouble
Athenia
1947
1943
13-b
8-g
Courtly Dee
Bay or brown 1968
Never Bend
Bay 1960
Nasrullah
Lalun
1940
1952
9-c
19-b
Tulle
Bay or brown 1950
War Admiral
Judy-Rae
1934
1944
11-g
A4
Hope
Bay 1991
Dancing Brave
Bay 1983
Lyphard
Bay 1969
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Goofed
Chestnut 1960
Court Martial
Barra
1942
1950
1-p
17-b
Navajo Princess
Bay 1974
Drone
Grey 1966
Sir Gaylord
Cap and Bells
1959
1958
2-s
1-l
Olmec
Chestnut 1966
Pago Pago
Chocolate Beau
1960
1958
1-o
3-d
Bahamian
Chestnut 1985
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Bay 1960
Nasrullah
Lalun
1940
1952
9-c
19-b
Milan Mill
Bay 1962
Princequillo
Virginia Water
1940
1953
1-b
22-d
Sorbus
Bay 1975
Busted
Bay 1963
Crepello
Sans le Sou
1954
1957
16-d
2-s
Censorship
Chestnut 1969
Prince John
Sixpence
1953
1951
14-f
19>
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer3m x 4m Sir Gaylord4m x 5m Never Bend4f x 4m 


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Gerald
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 6:38pm
I'm amused by Green Desert and Dancing Brave being in the same pedigree, as Dancing Brave prevented Green Desert from winning the 2000 Guineas.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 6:52pm
Than we have -

THIAMANDI (AUS)Chestnut filly 2010 
Street Boss
Chestnut 2004
Street Cry
Bay or brown 1998
Machiavellian
Bay or brown 1987
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Coup de Folie
Bay 1982
Halo
Raise the Standard
1969
1978
2-d
2-d
Helen Street
Bay 1982
Troy
Bay 1976
Petingo
La Milo
1965
1963
22>
1-b
Waterway
Chestnut 1976
Riverman
Boulevard
1969
1968
10-a
1-l
Blushing Ogygian
Chestnut 1994
Ogygian
Bay 1983
Damascus
Bay 1964
Sword Dancer
Kerala
1956
1958
1-o
8-h
Gonfalon
Chestnut 1975
Francis S
Grand Splendor
1957
1962
1-s
16-a
Fruhlingshochzeit
Bay or brown 1984
Blushing Groom
Chestnut 1974
Red God
Runaway Bride
1954
1962
8-c
22-d
Fruhlingstag
Bay 1975
Orsini
Revada
1954
1966
14-f
1-e
Country Class
Chestnut 1999
Woodborough
Chestnut 1993
Woodman
Chestnut 1983
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Playmate
Chestnut 1975
Buckpasser
Intriguing
1963
1964
1-s
1-s
Performing Arts
Chestnut 1987
The Minstrel
Chestnut 1974
Northern Dancer
Fleur
1961
1964
2-d
8-f
Noble Mark
Chestnut 1971
On Your Mark
Noble Joan
1964
1963
1-l
13-e
Malahide
Chestnut 1987
Kings Island
Chestnut 1981
Persian Bold
Bay 1975
Bold Lad
Relkarunner
1964
1968
2-e
9-h
Gerardmer
Chestnut 1975
Brigadier Gerard
Hants
1968
1968
14-c
2-i
Hasty Miss
Chestnut 1969
Hasty Cloud
Bay 1958
Preciptic
Clouette
1942
1947
2-e
4-p
Miss Mittens
Chestnut 1957
Jekyll
Mittie
1951
1933
2-i
14-e
 Ancestor duplications:Mr Prospector4m x 4m       


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Gerald
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 9:14pm
Is that just a study in chestnutness? Wouldn't think anything with both Woodman and Machiavellian in it would want to go more than 8-10f.



Posted By: Gerald
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2013 at 9:17pm
Oh, right, found it.  Winner at less than 5f.


Posted By: Gerald
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2013 at 12:37am
Dang, 2m h'cap at Newmarket, and we've only got 10 horses left to run in it.


Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2013 at 6:49pm
Zephyron, 5yo gelding trained by team Hawkes.  By Zabeel out of Diamond Like (Danehill), granddam Tristalove (Sir Tristram), great granddam Diamond Lover and great great Granddam the legendary Eight Carat.  Not only is Zephyron bred to stay, he's a blueblood.  Tristalove and Diamond Lover were group 1 winners and produces multiple stakeswinners at stud.  Diamond Like was only lightly races but won at listed level.  So far Diamond Like has had four foals to race and they have all won in the city, including Miss Zenella (full sister to Zephyron) who finished second in the 2013 Qld Oaks.  Although a 5yo, Zephron is very lightly raced.  Last start he won a 1500m race at Rosehill at $31.  While the odds suggest an upset, clearly it should be no surprise on his breeding.  He should continue to improve as he steps up in distance.  He's nommed in a 1600m race at Randwick on Saturday where he may be up against Pendolin, a horse I highlighted earlier in tis thread.  Zephyron is definitely a horse to follow.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2013 at 6:52pm
Apart from Octagonal getting 2400m does the family really stay ?

Tristalove sstayed well enough in South Australian company.

I tend to think the family is more 1200-2000m.


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2013 at 6:59pm
Absolutely a staying family.  Diamond Lover produced Don Eduardo (ATC Derby).  Tristalove produced Kempinsky (2nd VRC Derby).  Diamond Like produced Miss Zenella (2nd Qld Oaks).


Posted By: songline
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2013 at 8:02pm
Why is Zephyron lightly raced though? He a $2m yearling if I recall correctly. Soundness issues?


Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2013 at 5:25am
He had an 18 month spell, so must have had a major soundness issue.


Posted By: Hot2Trot
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2013 at 11:38am
Zephyron is a dual acceptor for Saturday.  I always consider this is a positive factor.


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2013 at 2:00pm
Zanbagh by Berbardini sire of 7 winners (20%) 2400 - 2500M. And a few at much longer trips in Europe.
Dam Wild Iris won an AJC Oaks 2400M. By Spectrum who has sired many staying winners in Europe.

Should handle the VRC Oaks trip on her ear.



Posted By: Gerald
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2013 at 5:55am
In the racing post database, most of bernadini's winners are 7-9f.  However, that only includes a few of his progeny.  Of the very few that have attempted it, the record is good at 12 & 14f.
3-8 at 12-13f, and 1-2 at 16+f.
Two of those 4 wins were by Bordoni, an ordinary handicapper, descended from Allez France (!) and having Sadlers Wells as damsire.

If Bernardini has a good record at 12+f in Australia, it looks like a case of in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.









Posted By: Gerald
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2013 at 5:55am
14+f, not 16+f.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2013 at 10:06am
 ARANMORE (NZ)Bay colt 2010 
O'Reilly
Brown 1993
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Bay 1975
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Sex Appeal
Chestnut 1970
Buckpasser
Best in Show
1963
1965
1-s
8-f
Mill Princess
Bay 1977
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Milan Mill
1960
1962
19-b
22-d
Irish Lass
Bay 1962
Sayajirao
Scollata
1944
1952
3-n
8-c
Courtza
Bay 1986
Pompeii Court
Bay 1977
Tell
Bay 1966
Round Table
Nas-Mahal
1954
1959
2-f
2-f
Port Damascus
Bay 1971
Damascus
Paris Pike
1964
1957
8-h
1-p
Hunza
Brown 1970
Pakistan
Chestnut 1958
Palestine
Tambara
1947
1947
3-e
6-d
Chatty Lady
Bay 1961
Chatsworth
Glamin
1950
1952
21-a
13-b
Fleece
Bay 2002
Daylami
Grey 1994
Doyoun
Bay 1985
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Milan Mill
1960
1962
19-b
22-d
Dumka
Bay 1971
Kashmir
Faizebad
1963
1962
9-c
21-a
Daltawa
Grey 1989
Miswaki
Chestnut 1978
Mr Prospector
Hopespringseternal
1970
1971
13-c
16-g
Damana
Grey 1981
Crystal Palace
Denia
1974
1973
10-e
9-e
Gold Dodger
Bay or brown 1994
Slew o' Gold
Bay 1980
Seattle Slew
Bay or brown 1974
Bold Reasoning
My Charmer
1968
1969
1-k
13-c
Alluvial
Chestnut 1969
Buckpasser
Bayou
1963
1954
1-s
9-f
Brooklyn's Dance
Bay or brown 1988
Shirley Heights
Bay 1975
Mill Reef
Hardiemma
1968
1969
22-d
1-l
Vallee Dansante
Bay 1981
Lyphard
Green Valley
1969
1967
17-b
16-c
 Ancestor duplications:Buckpasser5f x 5f Mill Reef4f x 4m,5m    


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Gerald
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2013 at 11:22am
Despite being by Mt Prospector, Miswaki appears in quite a few staying pedigrees.


Posted By: Gerald
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2013 at 11:24am
Mr


Quite a few of those Miswakis will be via being the sire of Urban Sea, I suppose.

Urban Sea getting a lot of her stamina via Allegretta.



Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2013 at 7:15pm
Here's an odd one - Shamexpress!  By O'Reilly out of a Volksraad mare and granddam by Grosvenor.  Granddam had one foal to race in Australia and it won over 2000m.  Great granddam only had two to race, one won over 2400m, the other also ran creditably at 2400m.  So far Shamexpress has been tried three times at 1400m and has failed each time.  Go figure.


Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2013 at 9:21am
Packing Empire - by High Chaparral out of a Kaapstad mare and granddam by Sound Reason.  Half brother to Prince Dande Lion (3 wins all at 2400m, 4th Sydney Cup 3200m).  So far Packing Empire has only won his maiden (2400m).  Entered in Sandown Cup 3200m on Saturday.  May lack the class of his opposition but should stay the trip.  May be a good place bet.


Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2013 at 9:44am
Star Of Tralee - by Zabeel out of Rose Of Tralee (by Sadlers Wells).  Rose Of Tralee won over 2800m in Sydney.  Star Of Tralee is a half sister to Serenade Rose (won VRC and ATC Oaks) and Irish Rhapsody (won at 2400m).  Great staying pedigree, the only problem is Star Of Tralee doesn't seem to possess much ability.  Either that or David Hayes is unable to produce it.  Also goes around in the Sandown Cup on Saturday.  Will stay the trip but may need 4200m.  Perhaps a jumping career?


Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2013 at 1:57pm
Cry Havoc.  By noted sire of stayers, Savabeel out of a Redoutes Choice mare.  Maternal grandsire is another noted staying influence in Star Way.  Classy stayers in the family include Dupain (Brisbane Cup) and Tristanagh (VRC Oaks).
 
Been leading and winning in sprint races, but bred to go much further.  Definitely one to keep an eye on.  Going around in race 4 at Kensington tomorrow.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2013 at 11:24am
BUSH PILOT (AUS)Bay filly 2010 
Henrythenavigator
Bay or brown 2005
Kingmambo
Bay 1990
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Chestnut 1961
Native Dancer
Raise You
1950
1946
5-f
8-f
Gold Digger
Bay 1962
Nashua
Sequence
1952
1946
3-m
13-c
Miesque
Bay 1984
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Pasadoble
Bay 1979
Prove Out
Santa Quilla
1969
1970
4-c
20>
Sequoyah
Bay 1998
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Brigid
Chestnut 1991
Irish River
Chestnut 1976
Riverman
Irish Star
1969
1960
10-a
1-w
Luv Luvin'
Chestnut 1977
Raise a Native
Ringing Bells
1961
1971
8-f
9-b
Bush Honey
Brown 1999
Woodman
Chestnut 1983
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Chestnut 1961
Native Dancer
Raise You
1950
1946
5-f
8-f
Gold Digger
Bay 1962
Nashua
Sequence
1952
1946
3-m
13-c
Playmate
Chestnut 1975
Buckpasser
Bay 1963
Tom Fool
Busanda
1949
1947
3-j
1-s
Intriguing
Chestnut 1964
Swaps
Glamour
1952
1953
A4
1-s
Saving
Brown 1981
Pevero
Bay 1975
Busted
Bay 1963
Crepello
Sans le Sou
1954
1957
16-d
2-s
Caprera
Bay 1967
Abernant
Primula
1946
1960
9-c
6-e
Chubb
Bay 1966
Faux Tirage
Bay 1946
Big Game
Commotion
1939
1938
6-e
9-c
Key
Bay 1958
Fair's Fair
Firstloch
1943
1950
6-e
1-b
 Ancestor duplications:Raise a Native4m,5f x 4m Mr Prospector3m x 3m Northern Dancer5m,4m x 
  Special5m,5f x       


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Gerald
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2013 at 9:28pm
Here's a fun one.

Apollo Maverick has Mr Prospector and Storm Cat and Nureyev and Riverman in its pedigree, yet still manages to win a 2m 4 and a half furlong Group 1 race in Japan by 8 lengths.

Admittedly, Mr Prospector is via Kingmambo, who is a force for stamina, and Nureyev is via Theatrical.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/apollo+maverick" rel="nofollow - http://www.pedigreequery.com/apollo+maverick



Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2013 at 10:36am
Kiss Me Ketut.  By Danroad out of a Sadlers Wells mare.  Stepping up to 1800m on Thursday.


Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2013 at 10:42am
Prince Jester.  By Golan.  Granddam by Sadlers Wells.  In the same family as Fatal Attraction (WA Oaks).  Entered Thursday over 1800m.


Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 5:18am
5yo mare Roxanne Of Sydney trained by Colin Alderson.  By Zabeel out of an Entrepreneur mare.  Granddam by Marscay.  in the same family as Hobart Cup winner Zacielo.  Not a blueblood and done nothing much to date.  However didn't start racing until she was a 4yo.  Expect improvement as she steps up in distance, fitness and race experience.  Might pay to follow.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2014 at 11:26am
DIRETTO (NZ)Brown colt 2010 
Pentire
Bay 1992
Be My Guest
Chestnut 1974
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Brown 1954
Nearco
Lady Angela
1935
1944
4-r
14-c
Natalma
Bay 1957
Native Dancer
Almahmoud
1950
1947
5-f
2-d
What a Treat
Bay or brown 1962
Tudor Minstrel
Brown 1944
Owen Tudor
Sansonnet
1938
1933
10-b
9-c
Rare Treat
Chestnut 1952
Stymie
Rare Perfume
1941
1947
1-h
8-c
Gull Nook
Bay 1983
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Bay 1960
Nasrullah
Lalun
1940
1952
9-c
19-b
Milan Mill
Bay 1962
Princequillo
Virginia Water
1940
1953
1-b
22-d
Bempton
Bay 1976
Blakeney
Bay 1966
Hethersett
Windmill Girl
1959
1961
21-a
20-c
Hardiemma
Bay 1969
Hardicanute
Grand Cross
1962
1952
3-j
1-l
In the Midnight
Brown 2000
Quest for Fame
Bay or brown 1987
Rainbow Quest
Bay 1981
Blushing Groom
Chestnut 1974
Red God
Runaway Bride
1954
1962
8-c
22-d
I Will Follow
Bay 1975
Herbager
Where You Lead
1956
1970
16-c
14-f
Aryenne
Bay 1977
Green Dancer
Bay 1972
Nijinsky
Green Valley
1967
1967
8-f
16-c
Americaine
Chestnut 1968
Cambremont
Alora
1962
1954
1-t
4-i
Tupelo Honey
Bay 1982
Vice Regal
Brown 1973
Bismark
Bay 1967
Relic
Gun Play
1945
1959
8-f
13-c
Kind Regards
Brown 1966
Le Filou
Waft
1946
1956
16-c
3-e
Mary Poppins
Bay 1963
Fair's Fair
Chestnut 1943
Fair Trial
Fairy Godmother
1932
1929
9-c
6-e
Rag
Brown 1952
Lucky Bag
Waltzing Matilda
1944
1939
9-c
2-b




This gelding just had a gut buster over the clearly unsuitable 1250m at Canterbury. Hopefully he can live up to his pedigree. Queensland Derby is an obvious target even this far out. Chris Waller does not have a greta record with these types that he has produced from the get go.


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2014 at 11:30am
Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:

5yo mare Roxanne Of Sydney trained by Colin Alderson.  By Zabeel out of an Entrepreneur mare.  Granddam by Marscay.  in the same family as Hobart Cup winner Zacielo.  Not a blueblood and done nothing much to date.  However didn't start racing until she was a 4yo.  Expect improvement as she steps up in distance, fitness and race experience.  Might pay to follow.


ROXANNE OF SYDNEY (NZ)
Bay filly 2008 
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Bay 1959
Turn-To
Somethingroyal
1951
1952
1-w
2-s
Attica
Chestnut 1953
Mr Trouble
Athenia
1947
1943
13-b
8-g
Isolt
Bay 1961
Round Table
Bay 1954
Princequillo
Knight's Daughter
1940
1941
1-b
2-f
All My Eye
Chestnut 1954
My Babu
All Moonshine
1945
1941
1-w
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Special
Bay 1969
Forli
Thong
1963
1964
3-b
5-h
Valderna
Bay 1972
Val de Loir
Bay 1959
Vieux Manoir
Vali
1947
1954
10-e
5-h
Derna
Bay 1961
Sunny Boy
Miss Barberie
1944
1950
16-a
16-c
Foxette
Chestnut 2000
Entrepreneur
Bay 1994
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Exclusive Order
Chestnut 1979
Exclusive Native
Chestnut 1965
Raise a Native
Exclusive
1961
1953
8-f
10-a
Bonavista
Bay 1964
Dead Ahead
Ribotina
1959
1960
4-m
6-e
Blucielo
Chestnut 1992
Marscay
Chestnut 1979
Biscay
Chestnut 1965
Star Kingdom
Magic Symbol
1946
1956
1-g
2-o
Heart of Market
Bay 1967
To Market
Accroche Coeur
1948
1959
10-a
4-m
Dancer's Glory
Bay 1985
Danzatore
Bay 1980
Northern Dancer
Shake a Leg
1961
1970
2-d
2-f
Taiona
Brown 1972
Sovereign Edition
Vickyjoy
1962
1965
13-a
7-d
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 4m,5m Special4m x 5f

Not a bad family. Gurners Lane and Sovereign Red come to mind.




-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 10:49am

WHARTON (AUS)
Bay colt 2010 
New Approach
Chestnut 2005
Galileo
Bay 1998
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Urban Sea
Chestnut 1989
Miswaki
Chestnut 1978
Mr Prospector
Hopespringseternal
1970
1971
13-c
16-g
Allegretta
Chestnut 1978
Lombard
Anatevka
1967
1969
1-d
9-h
Park Express
Bay or brown 1983
Ahonoora
Chestnut 1975
Lorenzaccio
Chestnut 1965
Klairon
Phoenissa
1952
1951
1-w
5-h
Helen Nichols
Chestnut 1966
Martial
Quaker Girl
1957
1961
2-e
1-m
Matcher
Brown 1966
Match
Brown 1958
Tantieme
Relance
1947
1952
20-a
16-g
Lachine
Bay 1960
Grey Sovereign
Loved One
1948
1947
6-f
19-b
Ivy League
Bay 1999
Doyoun
Bay 1985
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Bay 1960
Nasrullah
Lalun
1940
1952
9-c
19-b
Milan Mill
Bay 1962
Princequillo
Virginia Water
1940
1953
1-b
22-d
Dumka
Bay 1971
Kashmir
Bay or brown 1963
Tudor Melody
Queen of Speed
1956
1950
1-n
9-c
Faizebad
Bay or brown 1962
Prince Taj
Floralie
1954
1954
9-c
21-a
Hedera
Chestnut 1992
Woodman
Chestnut 1983
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Playmate
Chestnut 1975
Buckpasser
Intriguing
1963
1964
1-s
1-s
Ivrea
Bay 1987
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Ivy
Bay 1981
Sir Ivor
Durga
1965
1966
8-g
1-l
 Ancestor duplications:Sadler's Wells3m x 4f Mr Prospector5m x 4m


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Shammy Davis
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 1:47pm
JAZIL (SEEKING THE GOLD x BETTER THAN HONOUR) standing in VEN in 2014.  Stayers!


Posted By: Nostradamus II
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 3:44pm
One of my horses to follow. Wrote this December 2013: 

Duquesa (4m) Encosta De Lago out of Ethereal by Rhythm out of Romanee Conti by Sir Tristram out of Richebourg by Vice Regal. 

11 Dec. 2013 Ellerslie 2200m Mdn Awkward jump, settled back, made run turn and went to lead straight, too classy. Very impressive. Duquesa has obviously inherited the family ability being out of that champion race mare Ethereal, winner of the G1 The BMW, Melbourne Cup, Caulfield Cup, Queensland Oaks. Previous runs were over lesser ground so step up in distance suited and looks a special.

Encosta De Lago is by a son of Northern Dancer out of Shoal Creek by Star Way out of Rolls by Mr Prospector out of Grand Luxe by Sir Ivor out of Fanfreluche by Northern Dancer. 

Ethereal is by Rhythm (by Mr Prospector out of Dance Number by Northern Dancer) out of Romanee Conti by Sir Ivor's son Sir Tristram.  What a meshing of superior sex balanced genes involving these three breed shaping stallions, Northern Dancer, Mr Prospector and Sir Ivor. 

There are a 18 lines of breed shaping mare Selene in behind through sons and daughters involving Hyperion, Sickle, Pharamond II, New Moon and All Moonshine. There are also 22 lines of Gainsborough and 30 lines of Teddy who are from the same female family and have similar pedigrees overall


-------------
https://sites.google.com/site/cosmosthoroughbredpedigrees/" rel="nofollow - https://sites.google.com/site/cosmosthoroughbredpedigrees/


Posted By: Geraldo
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 4:57pm
hmm, Racing Post covers Chile, but not Venezuela.



Posted By: Geraldo
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 5:01pm
Seems he's got the senorita gig courtesy of Comediante.

Champion 3yo in Venezuela.


a los 3 años, Caballo del Año y Campeón Tresañero en 2012, 1º Clásico Internacional Simón Bolívar (G1), Clásico Internacional Copa de Oro de Venezuela (G1), Copa My Own Business, 2º Clásico República Bolivariana de Venezuela (G1), Copa Invitacional del Caribe, 3º Clásico Cría Nacional (G1); a los 4 años, 1º Clásico Día del Ejército (G2), Copa Remarkable News, 2º Clásico Presidente de la República (G1), Clásico José María Vargas (G2), Copa Arzak.

Caballo del Año y Campeón Tresañero en 2012 en Venezuela.


Posted By: Geraldo
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 5:09pm
I subscribe to caballos delmundo on youtube but it wasn't there - they should rename it. Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i-OrDe4SXs

Strung out like washing.


Posted By: Pihanga
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2014 at 5:01am
try this yearling bred from a Traditionally (damsire of 29 winners of $1.23m from 60 runners) daughter of Pihanga, I'm offering him for private sale at $50k, he's been gelded, has a huge overstep and a great walk, will grow to 16.2hh and is shown here photographed this week where he is being broken in by shane hapeta, 15k from karaka 

http://www.nzracing.co.nz/Breeding/313281/Taku-Poi-E-NZ-2012.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://www.nzracing.co.nz/Breeding/313281/Taku-Poi-E-NZ-2012.aspx

http://pic.twitter.com/3GKxhe4Qd3" rel="nofollow - pic.twitter.com/3GKxhe4Qd3


-------------
OAKS FILLY!
Karaka Lot1191 chestnut full sister to Gr1,Gr2,Gr3 placed stayer Blue Breeze,only Book 2 2018 full sibling to a Gr1 &2400m performer;
her 2017 full sister's an exciting 2yo Sheeze A Breeze


Posted By: Geraldo
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2014 at 6:29am
Fiddler is looking for a horse.  Would you mind if he sent him jumping?




Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2014 at 11:06am
Anacott Steel filly 2011  
Tavistock (NZ)
Bay 2005
Montjeu
Bay 1996
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Floripedes
Bay 1985
Top Ville
Bay 1976
High Top
Sega Ville
1969
1968
11-a
8-i
Toute Cy
Bay 1979
Tennyson
Adele Toumignon
1970
1971
1-t
1-u
Upstage
Bay 1998
Quest for Fame
Bay or brown 1987
Rainbow Quest
Bay 1981
Blushing Groom
I Will Follow
1974
1975
22-d
14-f
Aryenne
Bay 1977
Green Dancer
Americaine
1972
1968
16-c
4-i
Pedestal
Chestnut 1986
High Line
Chestnut 1966
High Hat
Time Call
1957
1955
2-o
5-e
Mrs Moss
Chestnut 1969
Reform
Golden Plate
1964
1964
5-h
14-b
Penny Bright (NZ)
Brown 2006
Pentire
Bay 1992
Be My Guest
Chestnut 1974
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
What a Treat
Bay or brown 1962
Tudor Minstrel
Rare Treat
1944
1952
9-c
8-c
Gull Nook
Bay 1983
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Milan Mill
1960
1962
19-b
22-d
Bempton
Bay 1976
Blakeney
Hardiemma
1966
1969
20-c
1-l
Bright Beauty
Brown 1998
O'Reilly
Brown 1993
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Mill Princess
1975
1977
8-f
8-c
Courtza
Bay 1986
Pompeii Court
Hunza
1977
1970
1-p
13-b
Splash of Beauty
Chestnut 1990
Luskin Star
Chestnut 1974
Kaoru Star
Promising
1965
1968
31>
2-e
Vanotrice
Bay 1980
Vain
Toltrice
1966
1969
A10
43>
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 4m       


Just ran behind the placings in the 900m 2yo scamper at Sandown.

Bound to improve over further. Oaks filly.




-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Geraldo
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2014 at 12:30pm
Phountzi is down on the Pedigree Query site as Mrs Moss's 1986 foal.  I suppose Pedigree Query is wrong what with anyone being able to add to it.


Phountzi destroyed due to savaging Stud Master March 2002.   Unhappy  Got another one to add to my list of unnatural stallion deaths - got four of them, without looking for them.


Posted By: Geraldo
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2014 at 12:33pm
Oh, Pedestal is now appearing instead of Phountzi.  Must be some computer bug. Confused


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2014 at 10:52am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Anacott Steel filly 2011  
Tavistock (NZ)
Bay 2005
Montjeu
Bay 1996
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Floripedes
Bay 1985
Top Ville
Bay 1976
High Top
Sega Ville
1969
1968
11-a
8-i
Toute Cy
Bay 1979
Tennyson
Adele Toumignon
1970
1971
1-t
1-u
Upstage
Bay 1998
Quest for Fame
Bay or brown 1987
Rainbow Quest
Bay 1981
Blushing Groom
I Will Follow
1974
1975
22-d
14-f
Aryenne
Bay 1977
Green Dancer
Americaine
1972
1968
16-c
4-i
Pedestal
Chestnut 1986
High Line
Chestnut 1966
High Hat
Time Call
1957
1955
2-o
5-e
Mrs Moss
Chestnut 1969
Reform
Golden Plate
1964
1964
5-h
14-b
Penny Bright (NZ)
Brown 2006
Pentire
Bay 1992
Be My Guest
Chestnut 1974
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
What a Treat
Bay or brown 1962
Tudor Minstrel
Rare Treat
1944
1952
9-c
8-c
Gull Nook
Bay 1983
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Milan Mill
1960
1962
19-b
22-d
Bempton
Bay 1976
Blakeney
Hardiemma
1966
1969
20-c
1-l
Bright Beauty
Brown 1998
O'Reilly
Brown 1993
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Mill Princess
1975
1977
8-f
8-c
Courtza
Bay 1986
Pompeii Court
Hunza
1977
1970
1-p
13-b
Splash of Beauty
Chestnut 1990
Luskin Star
Chestnut 1974
Kaoru Star
Promising
1965
1968
31>
2-e
Vanotrice
Bay 1980
Vain
Toltrice
1966
1969
A10
43>
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 4m       


Just ran behind the placings in the 900m 2yo scamper at Sandown.

Bound to improve over further. Oaks filly.



Does anybody know Paul Rocke the trainer of this filly ?

He had her nominated for a listed 1200m at Flemington on Saturday but chose instead to run her over a 1000m at Cranbourne on Friday night.

Despite the massive class difference I would have preferred to see her in the Flemington race. 




-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 10:23am
Forever Loved.  3YO filly by High Chaparral.  On the mare's side traces back to Eight Carat, through Diamond Lover, Tristalove and Diamond Like. Half sister to Zephyron (won MV 2000m) and Miss Zenella (2nd Qld Oaks).  In a 1600m race at Randwick.  Anyone know if she's heading for the Oaks?


Posted By: SYT
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 10:24am
Yes she is on an Oaks path Bonfield.


Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 2:27pm
I should have checked the markets.  She's $17 with IAS.


Posted By: Fremz
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 5:47pm
How about Veloce Forte that debuted for the O'Shea stable on Monday at Kembla.

2yo Filly by High Chap out of a Zabeel mare, half too Gypsy Diamond who is by Not a Single Doubt a noted speed sire.... If she doesn't a trip I'll give it away

-------------
for those about to punt, we salute you...


Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 5:56pm
You bet!  I like these 'stayers' able to win over sprint distance early in career.  Very promising filly.  Bet they are already thinking about winning an Oaks next year.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2014 at 10:08am
PROXY (AUS)Bay colt 2011 
Authorized
Bay 2004
Montjeu
Bay 1996
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Floripedes
Bay 1985
Top Ville
Bay 1976
High Top
Sega Ville
1969
1968
11-a
8-i
Toute Cy
Bay 1979
Tennyson
Adele Toumignon
1970
1971
1-t
1-u
Funsie
Bay or brown 1999
Saumarez
Bay or brown 1987
Rainbow Quest
Bay 1981
Blushing Groom
I Will Follow
1974
1975
22-d
14-f
Fiesta Fun
Brown 1978
Welsh Pageant
Antigua
1966
1958
1-s
16-a
Vallee Dansante
Bay 1981
Lyphard
Bay 1969
Northern Dancer
Goofed
1961
1960
2-d
17-b
Green Valley
Bay or brown 1967
Val de Loir
Sly Pola
1959
1957
5-h
16-c
Secret Women's Biz
Bay 2004
Diatribe
Bay 1996
Brief Truce
Bay 1989
Irish River
Chestnut 1976
Riverman
Irish Star
1969
1960
10-a
1-w
Falafel
Bay 1973
Northern Dancer
Queen's Statute
1961
1954
2-d
22-b
Gabbing Gloria
Bay 1986
Desert Wine
Bay 1980
Damascus
Anne Campbell
1964
1973
8-h
16-g
You're My Lady
Bay 1980
Roberto
Spring Adieu
1969
1974
12-c
2-d
Confidential Miss
Bay 1993
Rivotious
Bay 1983
Riverman
Bay 1969
Never Bend
River Lady
1960
1963
19-b
10-a
Glorious Song
Bay 1976
Halo
Ballade
1969
1972
2-d
12-c
Secret Mistress
Bay 1982
Yeats
Bay 1976
Nijinsky
Lisadell
1967
1971
8-f
5-h
Lavinia
Chestnut 1975
St Paddy
Andiamo
1957
1958
14-c
6-b
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m,5m x 5f Rivermanx 5m,4m


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Superb
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2014 at 10:19am
Good call on Tear Gas earlier in this thread!


Posted By: Geraldo
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2014 at 11:00am
Proxy should stay 2 miles quite easily, by the time he's a 4yo.


Posted By: Geraldo
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 8:56am
Gai thread gone.

Three-year-olds.

BREMNER 
B c Manduro - Maggie Lou. 
Improved in all three outings last season, third over seven on first of them at York then won next two, seven furlong maiden at Ayr then mile novice at Ayr in September by two and three quarter lengths from Illuminating Dream and rated 95. Trained by Kevin Ryan last season, yet to race for present yard. 
"I'm still getting a line on him but his recent work on the polytrack was very good then not so good when he got on the Limekilns in his latest bit. I will be taking him to work at Great Leighs because I want him to sparkle again. Possible he might be better for gelding and could be better in blinkers but I think we'll see the best of him on the track. I will up him in trip but how much I don't yet know but will probably start at nine or ten furlongs. There is the Investec Derby Trial at Epsom on April 23 which might be suitable. The aim is to run at Royal Ascot then go to Australia as he's owned by a syndicate headed by Gai Waterhouse."




Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2014 at 11:00am
Could have sworn I posted a comment on Savage Coup.

We wonder why our stayers are no good when they are campaigned like this filly is.

At least tonight she will get a bog track.

SAVAGE COUP (NZ)Brown filly 2011 
Savabeel
Brown 2001
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Attica
1959
1953
2-s
8-g
Isolt
Bay 1961
Round Table
All My Eye
1954
1954
2-f
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Valderna
Bay 1972
Val de Loir
Derna
1959
1961
5-h
16-c
Savannah Success
Brown 1995
Success Express
Bay 1985
Hold Your Peace
Bay 1969
Speak John
Blue Moon
1958
1948
1-l
12-b
Au Printemps
Bay 1979
Dancing Champ
Lorgnette
1972
1964
4-r
17-b
Alma Mater
Brown 1988
Semipalatinsk
Bay 1978
Nodouble
School Board
1965
1968
A1
23-b
Sweetie
Brown 1981
Without Fear
Virginia
1967
1972
4-c
1-o
Justine Coup
Bay 2000
Entrepreneur
Bay 1994
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Exclusive Order
Chestnut 1979
Exclusive Native
Chestnut 1965
Raise a Native
Exclusive
1961
1953
8-f
10-a
Bonavista
Bay 1964
Dead Ahead
Ribotina
1959
1960
4-m
6-e
Royal Sirt
Chestnut 1993
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Attica
1959
1953
2-s
8-g
Isolt
Bay 1961
Round Table
All My Eye
1954
1954
2-f
6-e
Royal Regatta
Chestnut 1979
Sea Anchor
Chestnut 1972
Alcide
Anchor
1955
1966
2-f
11-d
Shelly Burford
Bay 1965
Pakistan
Nighella
1958
1957
6-d
28>
 Ancestor duplications:Sir Tristram3m x 3f Northern Dancer5m x 4m Special5m x 5f


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2014 at 12:35pm
3yo filly High Harmony, trained by Guy Walter.  By High Chaparral out of a Danske mare, with granddam by Straight Strike.  Full sister to Hippopus (won VRC St Leger 2800m).  Stepping up to 2000m today in the Adrian Knox Stakes.  On face value she's outclassed, but may improve sharply over the trip and in the wet.


Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2014 at 11:47am
Lucia Valentina.  3yo filly trained by Kris Lees.  By Savabeel out of Montjeu mare.  Granddam by Star Way.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 02 May 2014 at 12:53pm

SLEEK BRAHMA (NZ)
Bay filly 2008 
Darci Brahma
Bay 2002
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Bay 1968
Ribot
Flower Bowl
1952
1952
4-l
4-d
Spring Adieu
Bay 1974
Buckpasser
Natalma
1963
1957
1-s
2-d
Grand Echezeaux
Brown 1996
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Isolt
1965
1961
8-g
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982
Nureyev
Valderna
1977
1972
5-h
16-c
Richebourg
Brown 1980
Vice Regal
Brown 1973
Bismark
Kind Regards
1967
1966
13-c
3-e
Mary Mead
Bay 1964
Wilkes
Easter Rock
1952
1957
13-c
16>
Colourship
Bay 2001
Rainbow Quest
Bay 1981
Blushing Groom
Chestnut 1974
Red God
Chestnut 1954
Nasrullah
Spring Run
1940
1948
9-c
8-c
Runaway Bride
Bay 1962
Wild Risk
Aimee
1940
1957
3-f
22-d
I Will Follow
Bay 1975
Herbager
Bay 1956
Vandale
Flagette
1943
1951
3-c
16-c
Where You Lead
Chestnut 1970
Raise a Native
Noblesse
1961
1960
8-f
14-f
Up Anchor
Bay 1989
Slip Anchor
Bay 1982
Shirley Heights
Bay 1975
Mill Reef
Hardiemma
1968
1969
22-d
1-l
Sayonara
Bay 1965
Birkhahn
Suleika
1945
1954
1-j
16-c
Pageantry
Bay 1980
Welsh Pageant
Bay 1966
Tudor Melody
Picture Light
1956
1954
1-n
1-s
Norfolk Light
Bay 1972
Blakeney
Strong Light
1966
1967
20-c
3-e
 Ancestor duplications:Natalma5m,5f x


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 03 May 2014 at 12:11pm
Leebaz.  By Zabeel and half brother to Polish Knight (2nd ATC Derby).


Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 07 May 2014 at 1:52pm
Amexed.  By Pentire out of a Danasinga mare.  Granddam by Shy Rambler.  Half brother to Danahere (won 2400m) and Digital Fortress (4th VRC Derby).  Running in Rough Habit Plate on Saturday over 2000m.  In form trainer Tony Gollan.


Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 07 May 2014 at 8:23pm
Herllo,
I think "Colour Ship" has some interesting 'Connections' further down her ped.
Blushing Groom/Mill Reef are tracing to the FS Black Ray/Black
Gem by Black Jester. Up Anchor by Slip Anchor o/o Sayonara from tze Schwarzgold Family, the taprootmare in Germany is Schwarze Kutte by Black Jester! Shirley Heights is 5 x 5 to Bimelech/Ardan respectivly
La Troienne and her 3/4 relative Adargatis, their Granddam Doxa is a FS of Absurdity. Just to make things even more interesting Welsh Pageant traces via Picture Play to Absurdity.
Their is another intriguing similarity in „Slip Anchors“ pedigree.

Black Ray/Black Gem FS (by Black Jester, dam Absurdity!) – Lady Brilliant (Sundridge) - Our Lassie (Ayrshire) – Yours (Melton), 4th Dam of Mill Reef
Bramouse,is the dam of Birkhahn.If you compare the peds of Bramouse (by Cappiello) and Picture Play (by Donatello), Peregrine (Granddam of Bramouse) and Amuse (Dam of Picture Play) they are very similar bred, both mares carrying the same Phalaris/Sunstar/Melton pattern in their damline + Donatello/Cappiello (Pretty Polly, Fam. 14).

best regards from Germany,
Ticino


Posted By: anabel
Date Posted: 07 May 2014 at 8:28pm
Thanks for the info on Colourship, I actually own Sleek Brahma - lovely mare with ability but niggling issues. She will be off to stud this year I'd say.


Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 08 May 2014 at 1:10pm
Rezoned.  3yo filly trained by Robert Smerdon.  By Zabeel out of a Flying Spur mare.  Stepped up to 2000m in the Australasian Oaks last start and would have at least finished just behind placegetters if had gotten a clear run.  Up to 2500m on Saturday.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 May 2014 at 1:13pm
Many here would remember Blue Denim...........

CARCASSONNE (AUS)Bay filly 2010 
Testa Rossa
Bay 1996
Perugino
Bay or brown 1991
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Bay 1968
Hail to Reason
Lalun
1958
1952
4-n
19-b
Special
Bay 1969
Forli
Thong
1963
1964
3-b
5-h
Bo Dapper
Bay 1985
Sir Dapper
Bay 1980
Vain
Chestnut 1966
Wilkes
Elated
1952
1957
13-c
A10
Sikri
Bay 1967
Golden Plume
Miss Sikri
1960
1963
19-b
C25
Bodega
Bay 1973
Without Fear
Bay 1967
Baldric
Never Too Late
1961
1957
13-c
4-c
Salon
Brown 1964
Fortino
Soiree
1959
1953
4-r
1-w
Chateau Marmont
Bay 1998
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Attica
1959
1953
2-s
8-g
Isolt
Bay 1961
Round Table
All My Eye
1954
1954
2-f
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Valderna
Bay 1972
Val de Loir
Derna
1959
1961
5-h
16-c
Blue Music
Bay 1986
Western Symphony
Bay 1981
Nijinsky
Bay 1967
Northern Dancer
Flaming Page
1961
1959
2-d
8-f
Millicent
Bay 1969
Cornish Prince
Milan Mill
1962
1962
1-s
22-d
Blue Denim
Bay 1975
A Chara
Bay 1966
Worden
Cannon Ball
1949
1959
13-c
3-o
Blue Carlyle
Bay 1969
Crest of the Wave
Delph Blue
1961
1961
1-e
14-e
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 5m,5m Special4f x 5m    


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 May 2014 at 1:11pm
 MERCI CHERIE (NZ)Bay filly 2010 
Sir Percy
Bay 2003
Mark of Esteem
Bay 1993
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Bay 1975
Mill Reef
Hardiemma
1968
1969
22-d
1-l
Delsy
Brown 1972
Abdos
Kelty
1959
1965
1-e
13-c
Homage
Bay 1989
Ajdal
Bay 1984
Northern Dancer
Native Partner
1961
1966
2-d
7>
Home Love
Bay 1976
Vaguely Noble
Homespun
1965
1969
1-d
17-b
Percy's Lass
Bay or brown 1984
Blakeney
Bay 1966
Hethersett
Bay 1959
Hugh Lupus
Bride Elect
1952
1952
19>
21-a
Windmill Girl
Bay 1961
Hornbeam
Chorus Beauty
1953
1952
1-p
20-c
Laughing Girl
Bay 1973
Sassafras
Bay 1967
Sheshoon
Ruta
1956
1960
14-a
8-c
Violetta
Bay 1958
Pinza
Urshalim
1950
1951
3-i
3-c
Menaka
Bay 2005
Montjeu
Bay 1996
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Floripedes
Bay 1985
Top Ville
Bay 1976
High Top
Sega Ville
1969
1968
11-a
8-i
Toute Cy
Bay 1979
Tennyson
Adele Toumignon
1970
1971
1-t
1-u
Daralimara
Bay 1999
Valanour
Bay 1992
Lomond
Bay 1980
Northern Dancer
My Charmer
1961
1969
2-d
13-c
Vearia
Bay 1985
Mill Reef
Val Divine
1968
1971
22-d
4-n
Daralinsha
Bay 1984
Empery
Bay 1973
Vaguely Noble
Pamplona
1965
1956
1-d
2-s
Darazina
Bay 1979
Labus
Djebellina
1971
1965
13-c
1-e
 Ancestor duplications:Mill Reef5m x 5f Northern Dancer5m x 4m,5m Vaguely Noble5f x 5m


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 09 May 2014 at 4:02pm
Darci Magic.  3yo gelding trained by Bede Murray.  By Darci Brahma out of an imported mare by Sadlers Wells.  Only raced up to 1600m so far and 2 starts back won easily over that distance at Warwick Farm.  Failed last start in Brisbane, but back to Rosehill and up to 1900m tomorrow.  If he hasn't trained off we will see how good he is.


Posted By: Dizzy
Date Posted: 09 May 2014 at 7:20pm
Noob question - is La Amistad (Makybe Diva half sister) actually bred to stay?


Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 09 May 2014 at 7:52pm
Clearly there is staying blood in La Amistad's pedigree through Makybe Diva, however being by Redoutes Choice she isn't bred to be a died in the wool stayer - more middle distance.  However going by her form to date I'm sure she's effective up to at least 2600m.  Although MD won over 3200m, she was very effective over a middle distance too.


Posted By: Dizzy
Date Posted: 09 May 2014 at 9:17pm
Makybe was able to win at a lot shorter than 2000, yet La Amistad ist seen to. Asking if- the Redoubt's blood line plug on the staying side?


Posted By: Bonfield
Date Posted: 10 May 2014 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by Dizzy Dizzy wrote:

Makybe was able to win at a lot shorter than 2000, yet La Amistad ist seen to. Asking if- the Redoubt's blood line plug on the staying side?
 
Not really.


Posted By: Red Rum
Date Posted: 11 May 2014 at 2:13am
A horse may be "bred to stay", but doesn't mean it will. Temperament needs to be taken in to consideration. I backed a filly today at Lingfield called Casual Smile. By an Epsom Derby winner out of an Epsom Oaks winner, pulled hard and had no chance of getting home.

-------------
value is everything


Posted By: Red Rum
Date Posted: 11 May 2014 at 2:16am
When a horse is too enthusiastic it won't stay as far as pedigree suggests. If lazy it will stay further than breeding suggests.

-------------
value is everything


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 11 May 2014 at 2:29am
It certainly does not help if the trainers are not up to it.




-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 11 May 2014 at 2:32am
CASUAL SMILE (GB)Chestnut filly 2011 
Sea the Stars
Bay 2006
Cape Cross
Bay or brown 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Foreign Courier
Bay 1979
Sir Ivor
Courtly Dee
1965
1968
8-g
A4
Park Appeal
Bay or brown 1982
Ahonoora
Chestnut 1975
Lorenzaccio
Helen Nichols
1965
1966
5-h
1-m
Balidaress
Grey 1973
Balidar
Innocence
1966
1968
8-d
14-c
Urban Sea
Chestnut 1989
Miswaki
Chestnut 1978
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Hopespringseternal
Chestnut 1971
Buckpasser
Rose Bower
1963
1958
1-s
16-g
Allegretta
Chestnut 1978
Lombard
Chestnut 1967
Agio
Promised Lady
1955
1961
9-h
1-d
Anatevka
Chestnut 1969
Espresso
Almyra
1958
1962
7-a
9-h
Casual Look
Bay 2000
Red Ransom
Bay 1987
Roberto
Bay 1969
Hail to Reason
Brown 1958
Turn-To
Nothirdchance
1951
1948
1-w
4-n
Bramalea
Bay or brown 1959
Nashua
Rarelea
1952
1949
3-m
12-c
Arabia
Bay 1977
Damascus
Bay 1964
Sword Dancer
Kerala
1956
1958
1-o
8-h
Christmas Wind
Bay 1967
Nearctic
Bally Free
1954
1960
14-c
6-b
Style Setter
Chestnut 1990
Manila
Bay 1983
Lyphard
Bay 1969
Northern Dancer
Goofed
1961
1960
2-d
17-b
Dona Ysidra
Bay 1975
Le Fabuleux
Matriarch
1961
1964
13-c
16-g
Charleston Rag
Chestnut 1982
General Assembly
Chestnut 1976
Secretariat
Exclusive Dancer
1970
1967
2-s
10-a
Music Ville
Bay 1972
Charlottesville
Meadow Music
1957
1956
14-a
11-f
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m x 5m


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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Red Rum
Date Posted: 11 May 2014 at 2:37am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

It certainly does not help if the trainers are not up to it.




In most cases it is not the trainers at fault Djebel, just how the horse performs. Different characters in horses as there are in humans. Sometimes it doesn't come out until they've actually run at the trip, with everything that happens on a racecourse.

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value is everything


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 11 May 2014 at 2:46am
Originally posted by Red Rum Red Rum wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

It certainly does not help if the trainers are not up to it.




In most cases it is not the trainers at fault Djebel, just how the horse performs. Different characters in horses as there are in humans. Sometimes it doesn't come out until they've actually run at the trip, with everything that happens on a racecourse.

In Australia stayers have all there speed trained and raced out of them. This has been proven over time.

Casual Smile raced a little fresh but if she is actually up to that class she will stay all right. Its a worry that they have her wearing a nose roll, Pommy trainers as a rule do not like head gear unless there are issues.




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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Red Rum
Date Posted: 11 May 2014 at 4:13am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:


Originally posted by Red Rum Red Rum wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

It certainly does not help if the trainers are not up to it.




In most cases it is not the trainers at fault Djebel, just how the horse performs. Different characters in horses as there are in humans. Sometimes it doesn't come out until they've actually run at the trip, with everything that happens on a racecourse.


In Australia stayers have all there speed trained and raced out of them. This has been proven over time.

Casual Smile raced a little fresh but if she is actually up to that class she will stay all right. Its a worry that they have her wearing a nose roll, Pommy trainers as a rule do not like head gear unless there are issues.




Normallly I'd agree Djebel, it might be a worry for a horse to run with a sheepskin noseband (often used to keep their head down). But her trainer is Andrew Balding, son of Ian - who trained the great Mill Reef. Since Mill Reef ran in a noseband in 1971 most (even the most genuine) horses coming out of the Kingsclere establishment wear them. However, Casual Smile did play up a bit beforehand, getting rid of her jockey. May be if settling better (in prelims as well as in race itself) will eventually learn to stay 12f.

Surely speed in a racehorse is important even in stayers, those with a turn of foot having an advantage? Especially where home straights are as short as in Australia.

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value is everything



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