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John McNair.

Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Racing - Public Forums
Forum Name: Tributes Forum
Forum Description: Personal tributes to past and present day champions. Lest we forget our turf heroes.
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=29011
Printed Date: 30 Nov 2020 at 12:05am


Topic: John McNair.
Posted By: Nathan
Subject: John McNair.
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 5:33pm
'Hay List will be one of the best sprinters we've ever seen won't he? .... well, he's already there isn't he?'

LOL 

Look who he's beating. The only group one winners in the field: Weekend Hussler, Swick, Sniper's Bullet and Rostova are along way off there best. And apart from that he's beating group 2/3 horses.


John McNair was asked if he's got Black Caviar covered.... he replied 'yeh' and smirked. I didn't like that one bit. 

We'll see on Patinack day ay, she was beating better horses in a more impressive fashion IMO, and as a 3yo as well. She'll eye ball him, and she'll beat him.





Replies:
Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 5:39pm
Its hard to knock him, he is really a bombproof horse. He can relax on the pace or off it, then accelerate more than once. Will take something special to beat him


Posted By: Nathan
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 5:42pm
I'm not knocking him. He's a very good horse, a G1 horse. He may be special, but he has to beat another very, very good horse to be named that. If he can beat Black Caviar, and  a %100 fit All Silent at Flemington then i'll label him that tag and the best in Oz.


Posted By: The Stallion
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 5:48pm
He will deal with BC without too many dramas, but I am looking forward to the spectacle none the less.

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That's the smell of victory, you can't wash that out.


Posted By: diva
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 5:50pm
We shall see, the only way BC will get close if they strap her on his back


Posted By: Me3
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 5:54pm
The problem is, is if he beats Black Caviar an a "100% All Silent", there will still be someone who says he hasn't beaten another good, fit horse.  Greatness seems to be in the eye of the beholder.




Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 5:58pm
Greatness is retrospectiveWink


Posted By: bachi
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 6:17pm
Hay List will beat whoever runs up against him...... easily.

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You should never be in a hurry unless your 50 metres from the post and you're in front!


Posted By: The Layer
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 6:25pm
There's going to be a big ambush on punters come Patinack Stakes day. Was lucky to be on the best part of the track along with a nice cart by Catapult.



Posted By: princerubiton
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 6:27pm
I tend to agree, I don't think Haylist is beating much. People saying he's the best since Manikato is an insult to our great sprinters. didn't Schillachi win 10 group 1s? He has still only won 1.

I started the black caviar vs haylist thread and as long as she's come back fit i'll be in her corner in the patinack. Love to see hot danish run down the straight again too, but it won't happen.


Posted By: Hay List
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by The Layer The Layer wrote:

There's going to be a big ambush on punters come Patinack Stakes day. Was lucky to be on the best part of the track along with a nice cart by Catapult.

 
Originally posted by The Layer The Layer wrote:

.

Hay List - inexperience from his obscure trainer will make this the lay of the year today in the Gilgai. Quick back up down the straight with penalty weight will see many punters burnt. This race will be like a 1600m with the speed.

 
 
LOL LOL I will say no more
 


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Formerly known as Crash       


Posted By: The Layer
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by Hay List Hay List wrote:

Originally posted by The Layer The Layer wrote:

There's going to be a big ambush on punters come Patinack Stakes day. Was lucky to be on the best part of the track along with a nice cart by Catapult.



 

Originally posted by The Layer The Layer wrote:

. Hay List - inexperience from his obscure trainer will make this the lay of the year today in the Gilgai. Quick back up down the straight with penalty weight will see many punters burnt. This race will be like a 1600m with the speed.


 

 

LOL LOL I will say no more

 


WA racing is riddled with DRUGS. I will say no more


Posted By: Hay List
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by princerubiton princerubiton wrote:

I tend to agree, I don't think Haylist is beating much. People saying he's the best since Manikato is an insult to our great sprinters. didn't Schillachi win 10 group 1s? He has still only won 1.

I started the black caviar vs haylist thread and as long as she's come back fit i'll be in her corner in the patinack. Love to see hot danish run down the straight again too, but it won't happen.
 
 
 
Umm Hay List has only contested one Group 1
 
Plenty of time to chalk a few more up


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Formerly known as Crash       


Posted By: Hay List
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by The Layer The Layer wrote:

 


WA racing is riddled with DRUGS. I will say no more
 
 
Hay List is trained in Sydney


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Formerly known as Crash       


Posted By: Wortel
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 6:46pm

The rider didn't need to go as nothing had a crack at him and when he did go he didn't need to whip it at all.

Very easy win against a 2nd rate field.

Had the Hussler and Catapulted not been backed he would've been sent out about $1.10 which was his true odds.


Posted By: The Layer
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by Nathan Nathan wrote:

'Hay List will be one of the best sprinters we've ever seen won't he? .... well, he's already there isn't he?'
LOL 
Look who he's beating. The only group one winners in the field: Weekend Hussler, Swick, Sniper's Bullet and Rostova are along way off there best. And apart from that he's beating group 2/3 horses.
John McNair was asked if he's got Black Caviar covered.... he replied 'yeh' and smirked. I didn't like that one bit. 
We'll see on Patinack day ay, she was beating better horses in a more impressive fashion IMO, and as a 3yo as well. She'll eye ball him, and she'll beat him.


They should drug test both Hay List and McNair. Crazy quotes from the man.


Posted By: Mordiboy
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by The Layer The Layer wrote:

Originally posted by Hay List Hay List wrote:

Originally posted by The Layer The Layer wrote:

There's going to be a big ambush on punters come Patinack Stakes day. Was lucky to be on the best part of the track along with a nice cart by Catapult.



 

Originally posted by The Layer The Layer wrote:

. Hay List - inexperience from his obscure trainer will make this the lay of the year today in the Gilgai. Quick back up down the straight with penalty weight will see many punters burnt. This race will be like a 1600m with the speed.


 

 

LOL LOL I will say no more
 
Cut you're losses, whilst you're a mile behind

 


WA racing is riddled with DRUGS. I will say no more


Posted By: The Muffin Man
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 7:07pm
He might not be beating star studded fields but the jockey barely touched him today. The win could not have been any more impressive.

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"Well, I will never post again, if the Oz dollar doesnt go below 80 cents within the year 2012." - Occy22


Posted By: Wortel
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 7:15pm
Sprinters that lead get better down the straight.

Tot, Gold Edition are a couple I remember. Just point them in the right direction, too easy.


Posted By: Shakamaker
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 7:26pm
Catapulted is a straight track specialist and went super today.
Hay List was having his first go and blitzed them hard held in 1:08.2 on a dead track.
All Silent at his very best wouldn't have mowed him down


Posted By: Nathan
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by The Muffin Man The Muffin Man wrote:

He might not be beating star studded fields but the jockey barely touched him today. The win could not have been any more impressive.

Well, it could of been, he could of ran faster LOL

But you're right, it was a fantastic win. I want to see him beat our very best sprinters before people label him one of our great sprinters, a world beater and the best since Manikato etc blah blah


Posted By: Wortel
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 7:59pm

No point in knocking him too much.

If he stays fit he will blow everything away. There isn't a sprinter in the country that can touch him wtihout stars like Takeover Target, Miss Andretti and Apache Cat in the way.


Posted By: BamBam
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by Nathan Nathan wrote:

Look who he's beating


should read 'look wh he's thrashing' Really nfi! Stop cutting down the tall poppies. let's see how royal orchid goes before we come out being a hater and not a congratulater. why is it we always knock a trainer who voices confidence in his/her charges?


Posted By: lovethegame
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 9:28pm
My support is with Mick and Hay List.
 
There isn't a horse in the country that would beat him at the moment...Wink


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If you have never failed than you have never tried.


Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 9:30pm
i think he a going to be great sprinter, he is super fit and beating whats put in front of him.
 
can the analyst check the sectionals in comparison to the previous G1 winners on the last few years.
 
any way i think he will win the Patinak and then come back even stronger in the autumn, but to call him great lets see hwat he can do to the Overseas horses.


Posted By: Nathan
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by BamBam BamBam wrote:

Originally posted by Nathan Nathan wrote:

Look who he's beating


should read 'look wh he's thrashing' Really nfi! Stop cutting down the tall poppies. let's see how royal orchid goes before we come out being a hater and not a congratulater. why is it we always knock a trainer who voices confidence in his/her charges?

Confused That time of the month? 

Like i said in previous posts, i think he is a very good horse, a G1 horse. But i want to see him beat our very best, which he hasn't, before i label him the best in Australia... People are saying he is the best since Manikato .... he needs another 8 or 9 G1's to his name before that is set in stone.




Posted By: Phantom
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by Shakamaker Shakamaker wrote:

Catapulted is a straight track specialist and went super today.
Hay List was having his first go and blitzed them hard held in 1:08.2 on a dead track.
All Silent at his very best wouldn't have mowed him down
Absolutely spot on Shaka..The time and the way he did it was awsome. He will break a few horses hearts in the upcoming races!

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The More You Put On, The More You Get Back


Posted By: Nocturnal
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 9:45pm
Shaka, Phantom , ssssshhhhhh let them pot him he is a star and will fund my spring e

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The only problem with backing winners ? You never have enough on....


Posted By: BamBam
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 9:53pm
he is the best in australia at sprinting and you sound like your having a bit each way. you canly beat what is put in front of you and you are slinging of at mcnair for being bullish about the horses chances. why attack the trainer for that. would you like him to have said no, no hope. that's right he had a smirk that poor you took offence to. give me a break.
i suppose you are upset about the jockey saying the worst part about riding hay list is the ride itself is not long enough as he is so awesome to be on. you wouldn't like that one bit.
mcnair aint no cleanskin but he has been gifted a super horse and should be positive in his discussions about the big beast.


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 9:59pm
He's really only won 11 from 13 , 1xGrp1, 1xGrp2, 2xGrp3.

He's only beaten Weekend Hussler, hmppfff. Who?
Reward For Effort, Catapulted, Pinwheel, Rostova, Youthful Jack, in his only 4 runs for McNair.

Black Caviar? Will she ever race again? If she does she''ll need to be better than very, very good to beat Hay List. I don't see that happening.




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I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2010 at 11:18pm
People can be quite amusing with the blind assessments of certain horses , without looking at some factual data ......
 Hay List is as good a sprinter as we have seen in many years .
Without going into the times alone he has run which compare a lot better than Apache Cat ever produced .
 I will leave you with the FACT = He cruised today and took .15 off the Flemington 1200 m [dead ] track record without raising a sweat in 1.8.20....Previous record had stood for 5 years.
   Please tell us the best sprinters  [ someone said he hasn't met  ]......He would carry anything else we have going around over the sprint distances.
 Hay list has won 12 from 14 .......He lost one when he pulled up lame  and was spelled 3 months and when resuming on a slow track he met severe interference and was beaten .8 L to Love Conquers All.


Posted By: Morgan
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 12:33am
Put Nikolic on his back, he will find a way to get him beaten.

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I hope that when I die, people say about me, "Boy, that guy sure owed me a lot of money."


Posted By: correctweight
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 12:46am
Originally posted by Mordiboy Mordiboy wrote:

Originally posted by The Layer The Layer wrote:

Originally posted by Hay List Hay List wrote:

Originally posted by The Layer The Layer wrote:

There's going to be a big ambush on punters come Patinack Stakes day. Was lucky to be on the best part of the track along with a nice cart by Catapult.



 

Originally posted by The Layer The Layer wrote:

. Hay List - inexperience from his obscure trainer will make this the lay of the year today in the Gilgai. Quick back up down the straight with penalty weight will see many punters burnt. This race will be like a 1600m with the speed.


 

 

LOL LOL I will say no more
 
Cut you're losses, whilst you're a mile behind

 


WA racing is riddled with DRUGS. I will say no more


Lol, that got more and more embarrassing as he said more things.


Posted By: BamBam
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 1:19am
and that is the problem macca. we have have nat showing his ignorance all to often on this site. he has bagged the trainer and run down the horse - although he likes it a lot, without any substance. just like pie face does.
he should be shutting up and listening rather tahn running around like he thinks he is bart cummings. makes one sick to read such ignorant comments.


Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 1:43am
Originally posted by Morgan Morgan wrote:

Put Nikolic on his back, he will find a way to get him beaten.
LOLBig smileLOLBig smileLOLBig smileLOLBig smileLOLBig smile
LOLBig smileLOLBig smileLOLBig smileLOLBig smileLOLBig smile
LOLBig smileLOLBig smileLOLBig smileLOLBig smileLOLBig smile


Posted By: Nathan
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 1:47am
When have i potted the horse? I doesn't offend me, i just find McNair extremely arrogant. He didn't show one bit of respect to the opposition, he has a good horse yes, but he doesn't know what sort of horse Moody has in his yard either.




Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 1:56am
yeah i didnt see, hear or read the interview of the trainer disrespecting rivals. but he can do it a t his own peril.
 
to be honest, i had never heard of this gun sprinter a few months ago, which also means in a few months time there possibly me another sprinter ready to knock this one off.
 
gotta love racing 


Posted By: The Muffin Man
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 9:49am
Originally posted by Nathan Nathan wrote:

When have i potted the horse? I doesn't offend me, i just find McNair extremely arrogant. He didn't show one bit of respect to the opposition, he has a good horse yes, but he doesn't know what sort of horse Moody has in his yard either.




Well I suppose now would be the time to use the phrase, ''winners are grinners and the rest can please themselves.''

Hay List really is just turning into one of those put in and take out jobs when you want to boost your betting funds by 60%. The horse was probably at the most vulnerable it will be for some time as it was looking at the straight for the first time, and the straight can throw up a few surprises as far as results go, but he did it with ease. I'm just glad he is a gelding and we will be able to watch him race well into old age, instead of him being shipped off to the breeding barn and robbing us of being able to watch his talent, as is the case with so many stallions.


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"Well, I will never post again, if the Oz dollar doesnt go below 80 cents within the year 2012." - Occy22


Posted By: Nocturnal
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 10:57am
Nathan I rewatched today the interview you are referring to and i thought he simply has an opinion of his horses ability and when posed the question about him he answered honestly and forthright . Harsh marker i reckon

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The only problem with backing winners ? You never have enough on....


Posted By: Platinum
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 11:59am
Originally posted by Nocturnal Nocturnal wrote:

Nathan I rewatched today the interview you are referring to and i thought he simply has an opinion of his horses ability and when posed the question about him he answered honestly and forthright . Harsh marker i reckon
  Yep and i respect that much more than some company line


Posted By: Wortel
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 12:13pm
Odds on punters have done well but no horse is good enough to back at those odds.

Put in take out job lol
 
Bookies will clean you out if you go thinking that about anything.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by Wortel Wortel wrote:

Odds on punters have done well but no horse is good enough to back at those odds.

Put in take out job lol
 
Bookies will clean you out if you go thinking that about anything.
.
.
. Everything has a price of probability...even to crossing the road safely.....
ALL successful gamblers depend on thier accuracy of being better at compiling those odds than the opposition ..[ fellow players ].
 Sometimes the right odds of probability may be  100/1 .....Other times it is 1/10 or the 1/6 that you mentioned.
 Get your pricing wrong and you will lose big time NO MATTER IF ITS 1/6 10/1 or 100/1.


Posted By: VPI
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by Wortel Wortel wrote:

Had the Hussler and Catapulted not been backed he would've been sent out about $1.10 which was his true odds.
 
 
Originally posted by Wortel Wortel wrote:

Odds on punters have done well but no horse is good enough to back at those odds.

Put in take out job lol
 
Bookies will clean you out if you go thinking that about anything.
Question


Posted By: The Muffin Man
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Wortel Wortel wrote:

Odds on punters have done well but no horse is good enough to back at those odds.

Put in take out job lol
 
Bookies will clean you out if you go thinking that about anything.


If you back a $1.60 favourite every time it races, you will lose money. If you confine selecting a $1.60 favourite to the occasions where you believe that barring an injury during the race, the horse has a next to no chance of losing, then you will win money. I did it with Denman last year and I've done it with Hay List as well. What's wrong with increasing your funds by 60% Wortel? I'd much rather be on a $1.60 winner than whatever someone's else has backed to beat it. But then again, I might have misunderstood the point of wagering, I thought it was to win money. Do you bet to lose money? How is that going for you?


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"Well, I will never post again, if the Oz dollar doesnt go below 80 cents within the year 2012." - Occy22


Posted By: VOYAGER
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 2:37pm
I think everyone is missing a big point here with this horse.
 
When he beat Catapulted in the McEwen Kavanagh thought his horse was a special, he may not have won a group 1 yet but I think Catapulted is group 1 class.
 
It is just that Hay List is making him and other group 1 gallopers look silly at the moment.
 
That win yesterday was absolutely unbelievable. 1.08.2 is about the fourth fastest overall time ever on the course and he had no cover, the jockey had about 5 lengths up his sleeve and as has been stated he was backing up from a group 1 winning performance 9 days earlier.
 
No way is he as good as Miss Andretti, Apache Cat or definitely Takeover Target yet but he is on his way.
 
They say Kingston  Town was beating nothing when he won his 18 group 1's but he is still considered the benchmark cahmpion of the modern era.
 
It does not matter who Hay List beats it is his own performance which makes him a champion or not, and at the moment he is a win away from moving into the category with Apache Cat and Miss Andretti.
 
Takeover Target is another level up but as I said he is on his way.  


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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise


Posted By: Fairest One
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 3:05pm
Hahah always so much hate and jealousy abound these good horses.
 
Seeing Hay List, Hot Danish and Black Caviar giong at it down the straight will be one of my highlights in racing.
 
Enjoy the ride!


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Cmon Apparitions!!!


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

I think everyone is missing a big point here with this horse.
 
When he beat Catapulted in the McEwen Kavanagh thought his horse was a special, he may not have won a group 1 yet but I think Catapulted is group 1 class.
 
It is just that Hay List is making him and other group 1 gallopers look silly at the moment.
 
That win yesterday was absolutely unbelievable. 1.08.2 is about the fourth fastest overall time ever on the course and he had no cover, the jockey had about 5 lengths up his sleeve and as has been stated he was backing up from a group 1 winning performance 9 days earlier.
 
No way is he as good as Miss Andretti, Apache Cat or definitely Takeover Target yet but he is on his way.
 
They say Kingston  Town was beating nothing when he won his 18 group 1's but he is still considered the benchmark cahmpion of the modern era.
 
It does not matter who Hay List beats it is his own performance which makes him a champion or not, and at the moment he is a win away from moving into the category with Apache Cat and Miss Andretti.
 
Takeover Target is another level up but as I said he is on his way.  
.
.
 Hay List would beat Apache Cat over 1200 by 50 yards now ....
ON TIMES < He is running many lengths faster on a dead track than A.C. ever ran on good.
I also accept A.C wasn't a true 1200 m horse but cleaned up the spoils available .
The coming events will be easy for Hay List as everything will avoid him ....Not his fault.
He will beat Hot Danish as he pleases if they meet..


Posted By: Wortel
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by The Muffin Man The Muffin Man wrote:

Originally posted by Wortel Wortel wrote:

Odds on punters have done well but no horse is good enough to back at those odds.

Put in take out job lol
 
Bookies will clean you out if you go thinking that about anything.


If you back a $1.60 favourite every time it races, you will lose money. If you confine selecting a $1.60 favourite to the occasions where you believe that barring an injury during the race, the horse has a next to no chance of losing, then you will win money. I did it with Denman last year and I've done it with Hay List as well. What's wrong with increasing your funds by 60% Wortel? I'd much rather be on a $1.60 winner than whatever someone's else has backed to beat it. But then again, I might have misunderstood the point of wagering, I thought it was to win money. Do you bet to lose money? How is that going for you?
 
I don't bet odds on and I do very well for myself.

Perhaps you missed my tips of Precedence and Drumbeats.

You don't need to pick something at odds on to be confident of getting a win.


Posted By: jazzman
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 3:46pm
Not the first time I've seen McNair bagged on this forum, and I doubt it will be the last. After all, there are several posters on here who are so simple that they bag certain jockeys for having a vagina.
Give it a spell.
I don't know the bloke; but he does a top job training horses. The job he's done with Hay List has been brilliant, and what about Mustard?
This bloke can train, there's no doubt about that.
 


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Istidaad kicking strongly, he's 2 lengths clear, Crawl gets out from a well back and old Mustard is grinding home... Hang on, Treasury Notes gets out from the back and she'll blouse them all!


Posted By: The Muffin Man
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by Wortel Wortel wrote:

Originally posted by The Muffin Man The Muffin Man wrote:

Originally posted by Wortel Wortel wrote:

Odds on punters have done well but no horse is good enough to back at those odds.

Put in take out job lol
 
Bookies will clean you out if you go thinking that about anything.


If you back a $1.60 favourite every time it races, you will lose money. If you confine selecting a $1.60 favourite to the occasions where you believe that barring an injury during the race, the horse has a next to no chance of losing, then you will win money. I did it with Denman last year and I've done it with Hay List as well. What's wrong with increasing your funds by 60% Wortel? I'd much rather be on a $1.60 winner than whatever someone's else has backed to beat it. But then again, I might have misunderstood the point of wagering, I thought it was to win money. Do you bet to lose money? How is that going for you?
 
I don't bet odds on and I do very well for myself.

Perhaps you missed my tips of Precedence and Drumbeats.

You don't need to pick something at odds on to be confident of getting a win.


That was never your argument. If you think a horse is a 90% chance of winning a race you would have to be an idiot to bet against it even if it was $1.60

Like I said, I don't do it very often, but there is absolutely no need to try an re-invent the wheel and look for a winner in a field when the 90% chance is staring at you in the face.


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"Well, I will never post again, if the Oz dollar doesnt go below 80 cents within the year 2012." - Occy22


Posted By: Nathan
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 5:26pm
It's the fact he was talking about a horse like Black Caviar that was doing everything he did a year ago, she was being talked up like him and although she's been out for a while but i certainly haven't forgotten about her. 


Posted By: The Stallion
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by The Muffin Man The Muffin Man wrote:

Originally posted by Wortel Wortel wrote:

Originally posted by The Muffin Man The Muffin Man wrote:

Originally posted by Wortel Wortel wrote:

Odds on punters have done well but no horse is good enough to back at those odds.

Put in take out job lol
 
Bookies will clean you out if you go thinking that about anything.


If you back a $1.60 favourite every time it races, you will lose money. If you confine selecting a $1.60 favourite to the occasions where you believe that barring an injury during the race, the horse has a next to no chance of losing, then you will win money. I did it with Denman last year and I've done it with Hay List as well. What's wrong with increasing your funds by 60% Wortel? I'd much rather be on a $1.60 winner than whatever someone's else has backed to beat it. But then again, I might have misunderstood the point of wagering, I thought it was to win money. Do you bet to lose money? How is that going for you?
 
I don't bet odds on and I do very well for myself.

Perhaps you missed my tips of Precedence and Drumbeats.

You don't need to pick something at odds on to be confident of getting a win.


That was never your argument. If you think a horse is a 90% chance of winning a race you would have to be an idiot to bet against it even if it was $1.60

Like I said, I don't do it very often, but there is absolutely no need to try an re-invent the wheel and look for a winner in a field when the 90% chance is staring at you in the face.


Pretty spot on.


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That's the smell of victory, you can't wash that out.


Posted By: eighteentwelve
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 8:29pm
I'm extremeley pessimistic on this champion tag, Sunline was a champion, capable of making the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end. I seen Hay Lists run in the Manikato and was very impressed but his run down the straight at Flemington was magnificent, he was 'dog trotting' in second gear. To be truly great these types of horses need to do it year in year out. The 'Hustler' had a big 12 months but the day Light Fantastic beat him at Caulfield the alarm bells were ringing for me. With Haylist the very clever McNair will keep him fresh and barring incident (touch wood, I'd say he'd be the proverbial 'stick of dynamite')he will continue to sizzle. All Silent is very good but he isn't consistant. Black Cavier has had big problems and will therefore struggle to reach greatness. Hot danish may be a little less effective going Melbourne way. Hay list wins everything he runs in easily and he's sound so I reckon us pessimists will be lining up at 'Champions' in time to admire a genuine champion.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 9:39am
I love reading the statistics of racing .......Has been a real attraction of mine for well over half a century and I have spent good dollars to buy a lot of it .
 The odds on question is a statistical must .... For example.....back all favourites you lose , back all last start winners you lose , back all last start winners within 14 days that are odds on you win ....{ 10 years of stats ]...not many bets using only the main 4 racing capitals .
 There is just so many of these it makes the mind boggle.
George Moore had a lifetime win if you had a dollar on his every ride ... beat that....he must have been an honest man.....Bart Cummings has never had a favourite win / I'm joking Bart .....One did get up when you were on holidays ......Hope the elderly marvel is recovering from his recent setback ...We actually miss him .


Posted By: lotto7
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

I think everyone is missing a big point here with this horse.
 
When he beat Catapulted in the McEwen Kavanagh thought his horse was a special, he may not have won a group 1 yet but I think Catapulted is group 1 class.
 
It is just that Hay List is making him and other group 1 gallopers look silly at the moment.
 


Voyager you are correct. Kav just shook his head in awe when Hay List beat Catapulted in the McEwen. Importantly he did so after having time to think about the race and not just an off the cuff comment. Kav knows how good Catapulted is and Hay List toyed with him. I think Kav is a far better judge than most on this forum. Hay List has since franked the form and provided he stays sound I can't see him being beaten this prep.


Posted By: Phantom
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by Nocturnal Nocturnal wrote:

Nathan I rewatched today the interview you are referring to and i thought he simply has an opinion of his horses ability and when posed the question about him he answered honestly and forthright . Harsh marker i reckon
Agree far better than a company line or a kav interview! The horse didn't respect the opposition so the trainer was correct!!Wink

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The More You Put On, The More You Get Back


Posted By: Phantom
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by The Muffin Man The Muffin Man wrote:

Originally posted by Wortel Wortel wrote:

Odds on punters have done well but no horse is good enough to back at those odds.

Put in take out job lol
 
Bookies will clean you out if you go thinking that about anything.


If you back a $1.60 favourite every time it races, you will lose money. If you confine selecting a $1.60 favourite to the occasions where you believe that barring an injury during the race, the horse has a next to no chance of losing, then you will win money. I did it with Denman last year and I've done it with Hay List as well. What's wrong with increasing your funds by 60% Wortel? I'd much rather be on a $1.60 winner than whatever someone's else has backed to beat it. But then again, I might have misunderstood the point of wagering, I thought it was to win money. Do you bet to lose money? How is that going for you?
We got stats on that? Be interested to see stats in relation to odds on pops at 1.70 or less in Saturday meetings only and then also in Group races. I reckon the strike rate be fairly high in group races!!

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The More You Put On, The More You Get Back


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by Nathan Nathan wrote:

It's the fact he was talking about a horse like Black Caviar that was doing everything he did a year ago, she was being talked up like him and although she's been out for a while but i certainly haven't forgotten about her. 


I'm sure Moody hasn't missed the Hay List bandwagon. Black Caviar didn't line up against him last saturday for obvious reasons.  No flies on Moody.

At least in the Schillaci she only has to take on Mic Mac, First Command, Definately Ready, Star Witness and Solar Charged.

Hay List would beat them in a trot.

Black Caviar is lightly raced because she isn't as sound as the connections would like her to be.
So I doubt she will ever face Hay List, let alone beat him.



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I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: Coat Puller
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2010 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by Nathan Nathan wrote:

'Hay List will be one of the best sprinters we've ever seen won't he? .... well, he's already there isn't he?'

LOL 

Look who he's beating. The only group one winners in the field: Weekend Hussler, Swick, Sniper's Bullet and Rostova are along way off there best. And apart from that he's beating group 2/3 horses.


John McNair was asked if he's got Black Caviar covered.... he replied 'yeh' and smirked. I didn't like that one bit. 

We'll see on Patinack day ay, she was beating better horses in a more impressive fashion IMO, and as a 3yo as well. She'll eye ball him, and she'll beat him.


 
Black Caviar has won one Group 2 race. Please list these better horses she was beating. Here De Angels ?? Wanted perhaps?? That Newmarket was run on a strange day regards how the track played and lets not forget the weather.
 
IF they meet in the Patinack he will be hard fit she will most likely be second up ? Hay List's presence is already making some trainers reconsider there spring targets. 
 
You will most certainly get better odds than you would have thought some 6 months ago but Black Caviar has been off the scene for good reason not holidaying in the Greek Isles.
 
IMHO McNair has every reason to be bullish and frightened of nobody.
 
Good post Macca Thumbs Up


Posted By: Nathan
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 1:41am
How does this thread go down now? She looks good, as does he of course. The Patinack, if they both turn up will be a race for the ages.


Posted By: Nocturnal
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 2:03pm
Cannot wait Nathan

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The only problem with backing winners ? You never have enough on....


Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 2:19pm
Whens the Patinak? is that the old Salinger?


Posted By: Nocturnal
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 2:20pm
Emirates day , the Salinger is derby day now a group two

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The only problem with backing winners ? You never have enough on....


Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 2:36pm
OK cool,
the salinger will be competitive on Derby Day as few runners would be nominated as they're trying avoid BC & HL. 
 


Posted By: jujuno
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 3:29pm
, Nathan, if you're ever in Sydney, pm me and I'll introduce you to John McNair. The man is a gentleman. He has never smirked in his life. He is a horse-lover and worries about them as though they are his children. 
  
  While Hay List has been in Melbourne (Geelong, actually) John has not left his side...but last week when old Mustard was running at Randwick his wife Sue and I had a non-stop three hour phone link going with John to keep him up to the minute on everything Mustard was doing/behaving...and his concern for the old boy was as intense as his concern for Hay List.

 Hay List could not have gone to a better trainer. The horse has extreme hoof problems...they are like thin shells...sometimes it's almost impossible to shoe him....and a horseman like John McNair has the patience to get that right before putting the horse into hard work. And being the size he is he needs plenty of work.  The Davenports are so impressed with John's results they have handed him Hay List's full sister Golden Statue to train as well. She suffers the same hoof problem.

 To make rash comments about someone is puerile. I know you are a genuine guy, Nath, even for a St Kilda supporter, Wink ,so I think you just read that interview wrong. John has the utmost respect for Black Caviar and can't wait for their clash. He even admitted that last run of BC made him worry a bit. But he also knows Hay List's incredible ability to just eat up opponents. The horse is a freak. John is not.



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Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...


Posted By: jujuno
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2011 at 10:55am
Star I'm sorry a lot of posters on here don't know John McNair and have the pleasure of his good humour.

 His interview with Bensley this morning was typical of John. He said he had three options with Hay List. (v Black Caviar), having run into a once in 50/60 yrs freak.

 1. Be prepared to accept second prizemoney in well-paying races, with the hope that handicaps, reverse running or just pure luck could go in his favour.

 2. Go to Singapore or Honkers and avoid her altogether.

 3. Just be patient and outlast her. She may have only one more year before going to stud and Hay List can go on as long as he's fit. If Mustard can go on till 14 then Hay List should have a few more years in him. 

 When they went to Melbourne, Mick, his strapper, rode in the float with Hay List. After the race on Saturday Mick had to fly home to get to his daughter's birthday on the Sunday. So on Monday when they set off home John packed masses of extra straw in the float to make up for Mick's absence. (Mick is a big boy). When they got home every bit of straw was eaten. So the big boy was even bigger.

footnote: Mick forgot that his car was left at John's Somersby property when they left Sydney. On Saturday night a message came thru via my facebook site: 'Am tired, on the train to the central coast and just realised I have no way of getting to John's place at 11.45pm. Will have to walk up Dog Trap Rd in the dark."  This is a long, dark ,dangerous road. Started to worry until all over the site came messages from other mates saying they would get out of bed and rescue him. So Mick made it home after a very long day.

footnote 2; Typical John.(and Sue).... Mustard's Perth owner had his 60th birthday about a month ago. John spent ages collecting archives, videos, interviews with every jockey who ever rode the old boy and made it into a special presentation as a birthday present. Wish I had a copy. 

 Never met a nicer bloke in racing. His mother told him not to get emotionally involved with the horses he trains. John disobeyed his mum. Glad he did. Certain other well-known trainers should follow suit. 

 Clap Star



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Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...


Posted By: The Stallion
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2011 at 12:32pm
Nice read. Loved the part how Hay List ate every bit of straw :).. What is his stable name at McNairs anyway?

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That's the smell of victory, you can't wash that out.


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2011 at 3:14pm
i think i heard him referred to as Grandad , would that be right ?
( Mustard, not John ! ).
and yes, some other trainers could do with some lessons on how to look after their horses, from John.


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animals before people.


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2011 at 3:16pm
oh sorry, stallion.  you meant Hay List, but i was thinking of the old fella !!Embarrassed 

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animals before people.


Posted By: carche
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2011 at 3:21pm
Many thanks jujuno.  A highly entertaining and enlightning read.  I somehow missed the 27 Oct post, so thanks for that too Thumbs Up
 
Glad to hear that even though Black Caviar may have broken Hay List's heart, it didn't affect his appetite LOL
 
Hope you don't mind me asking but what exactly is your connection to McNair?  Sounds as though you have a close affiliation with him.
 
Gotta feel for McNair.  I have a huge amount of respect for Hay List but when faced with a freak like Black Caviar, what are your options?  Nice to see it hasn't affected his sense of humour.  Any chance he'd be sizing up Royal Ascot as a possibity for Hay List?


Posted By: jujuno
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2011 at 3:45pm
 Hay List's nickname is Sooky for obvious reasons...I call him Gaily for obvious reasons...

 Mustard is Mussy when he's sweet, Grandad when referred to with the press, but more often "the old bugger" when he's playing up and taking chomps out of everyone. 

 As for John's nickname, there's been one or two  unsavoury ones over the years but Sue and I have taken the name-callers down a few pegs in his defence. John just laughs it off. He's that sort of bloke.



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Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...


Posted By: jujuno
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2011 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by carche carche wrote:

Many thanks jujuno.  A highly entertaining and enlightning read.  I somehow missed the 27 Oct post, so thanks for that too Thumbs Up
 
Glad to hear that even though Black Caviar may have broken Hay List's heart, it didn't affect his appetite LOL
 
Hope you don't mind me asking but what exactly is your connection to McNair?  Sounds as though you have a close affiliation with him.
 
Gotta feel for McNair.  I have a huge amount of respect for Hay List but when faced with a freak like Black Caviar, what are your options?  Nice to see it hasn't affected his sense of humour.  Any chance he'd be sizing up Royal Ascot as a possibity for Hay List?

 Met John and Sue several years ago. I was always at the stalls chatting to Gai or her offsiders and my daughter was besotted with Mustard. His stall is always next to Gai's lot at R'wick. Got talking to the McNairs.  We just fell into a friendship.

 Now on Mussy's racedays I do odd jobs for them or the strappers because Mussy won't be stabled and has to have someone continually walking him. The strappers need replenishing. I have become as besotted as my daughter was. The horse is such a character. I always get a nice soggy  nuzzle from the old bugger. (Mustard, not John) If the stable has runners on  mid-weekers at Randwick I will watch the races with John (or Greg)  because Sue prefers to go to bingo. John and I have had a four-year argument going whether Mustard is better over 1200 or 1400. John conceded to me last week...about bloody time. He will only run 1200m from now on.
 
  I take stable photos and video gallops.

  Several of the strappers are facebook friends, especially Mick. So I get info sent to me when I can't be there. 

 Went to Melbourne when Hay List ran the McEwan. Met the Davenports. Liked Liz. Terry is a bit vague, especially with jokes. 

 You are welcome to visit my facebook page and see funny photos of Hay List's legs or Mussy plus another group of photos of my special horses at Gai's. 

 link: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?profile=1&id=100000519342496
 


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Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...


Posted By: jujuno
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2011 at 5:17pm
 Go to Julie Ashworth on facebook if the link doesn't work.

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Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...


Posted By: carche
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 11:22am
Thanks for responding jujuno and for being so candid.  McNair seems the genuine article and a wonderful horseman.  I'm sure he appreciates your friendship as much as you do.
 
It's funny how some horses seem to work their way into our hearts when you least expect it.  All it takes sometimes is one look and you're hooked, line and sinker.  Mussy knows his onto a good thing with you Big smile
 
I'll make sure to check out your facebook page.  Again, many thanks.
 
Came across this article yesterday and it pretty much sums up what McNair said in his interview.
 
http://www.racingandsports.com.au/racing/rsNewsArt.asp?NID=201681&story=Book_now_for_TJ_Smith_Stakes_clash - http://www.racingandsports.com.au/racing/rsNewsArt.asp?NID=201681&story=Book_now_for_TJ_Smith_Stakes_clash


Posted By: Bi Carb
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 12:13pm
Sorry to be a stick in the mud Jju.
How many drug convictions ?
What about the latest stretch when he coerced the stablehand into lying at the enquiry ?
That wouls be from the day the stipes busted him in the truck doing the deed if my memory serves me correctly, but correct me if i am wrong.
I think it was 18 months wasnt it the last stretch ?
Anyway , he is doing a good job with big Hay List so i hope he goes well for them.


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2011 at 12:56am
Originally posted by Bi Carb Bi Carb wrote:

Sorry to be a stick in the mud Jju.
How many drug convictions ?
What about the latest stretch when he coerced the stablehand into lying at the enquiry ?
That wouls be from the day the stipes busted him in the truck doing the deed if my memory serves me correctly, but correct me if i am wrong.
I think it was 18 months wasnt it the last stretch ?
Anyway , he is doing a good job with big Hay List so i hope he goes well for them.


so,,,BI-CARB ?? ?? you would know about drug convictions maybe ??
ahhh give 'im a break !!
what about the big stables that get away with murder ??  care to elaborate there ?? cocaine floating on air ?? and all the rest of the La La Land stuff we hear !
at least he looks after his horses after they cant run anymore.
how many others do that ??



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animals before people.


Posted By: jujuno
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2011 at 9:38am
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Originally posted by Bi Carb Bi Carb wrote:

Sorry to be a stick in the mud Jju.
How many drug convictions ?
What about the latest stretch when he coerced the stablehand into lying at the enquiry ?
That wouls be from the day the stipes busted him in the truck doing the deed if my memory serves me correctly, but correct me if i am wrong.
I think it was 18 months wasnt it the last stretch ?
Anyway , he is doing a good job with big Hay List so i hope he goes well for them.


so,,,BI-CARB ?? ?? you would know about drug convictions maybe ??
ahhh give 'im a break !!
what about the big stables that get away with murder ??  care to elaborate there ?? cocaine floating on air ?? and all the rest of the La La Land stuff we hear !
at least he looks after his horses after they cant run anymore.
how many others do that ??


 Not the first time I've dealt with this issue. A disgruntled punter once called John a gangster. Ten minutes later he was apologising to Sue and I after we took his argument apart.

 Obviously if John was "guilty" of everything he is supposed to have done he would not have a licence. He called his stable runner 'Robbed' because he says that's what the stewards did to him.

 There are several very high-profile trainers (not Gai) whom the stewards have turned a blind eye to over the years.  One very famous. Though they did rap him hard ONCE. He still cheats. No-one cares because of who he is.

 John may or may not not have been a total cleanskin in the past.  I can only judge the person I know and I believe he would never deliberately harm any horse.  

 


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Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...


Posted By: jujuno
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2011 at 10:27am
 But never offer him a milkshake.

 he was not found "doing it". just had the equipment in the float.


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Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...


Posted By: correctweight
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2011 at 4:26pm
Fantastic result for John Mcnair with 10yo Mindreader winning the 5th on the Kensington track. He also had Robbed in the race who finished 3rd!

Hopefully Hay List will be able to race until his 10 so he can outlast Black Caviar lol


Posted By: jujuno
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2011 at 4:31pm

 Great trainer of aged horses. 

 The mad lip-licker Mindreader, aged 10, wins with a great finish.

 But you nearly undid me, John.  Robbed gave a scare for one brief moment. At last they're coming from the back at R'wick.

 nice odds...ta...

 

 


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Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...


Posted By: BalmainTiger
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2011 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by jujuno jujuno wrote:


 Great trainer of aged horses. 

 The mad lip-licker Mindreader, aged 10, wins with a great finish.

 But you nearly undid me, John.  Robbed gave a scare for one brief moment. At last they're coming from the back at R'wick.

 nice odds...ta...

 

 
 
He hasn't been scratched from Wyong yet. He's not backing up today is he?


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2011 at 12:13pm
Looks like it


Posted By: bs
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2011 at 6:46pm
Beaten out of sight.
He did something like this with My Vegas some time ago.
Won at Wagga on the friday, floated to Sydney to run the next day in extreme heat and ran hopeless.


Posted By: jujuno
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2011 at 11:42pm
Originally posted by bs bs wrote:

Beaten out of sight.
He did something like this with My Vegas some time ago.
Won at Wagga on the friday, floated to Sydney to run the next day in extreme heat and ran hopeless.

 Remember that. I sent a message to the stables about Robbed backing up but they'd left already and haven't heard back.

 Ironically My Vegas runs tomorrow.

 John must have had a rush of blood.

 He was going to run Mustard in Saturday's 1600m Liverpool Leader until the old bugger's leg blew up early this week. He's now resting in the paddock. John might need to as well.


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Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...


Posted By: princerubiton
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 8:28am
I thought he was going to keep his mouth shut? What a sook this bloke is.

Quotes attributed in this mornings paper to him.

On talking to the handicapper "...I may as well be talking to my dog."

"its only the Victorians who don't want us."

But then he says if they gave haylist half a kilo less he would run????

Now he is running haylist in the group 2 challenge stakes and not the group 1 William Reid at wfa where he would walk in or taling up the chalkenge of the newmarket like black caviar did last year when she carried 58.Very poor programming.



Posted By: Blaster
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 8:43am
Hay List to run in Newmarket

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He's Not Heavy,It's My Brother


Posted By: princerubiton
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 8:45am
He's running! Well done to the owners, made macnair look an even bigger fool.


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 8:45am
https://twitter.com/#!/RacingInsider" rel="nofollow - - ‏  - @
  • https://twitter.com/#" rel="nofollow - - Reply 
  • https://twitter.com/#" rel="nofollow - - https://twitter.com/#" rel="nofollow - - ·  https://twitter.com/#!/RacingInsider/status/174610373280940032" rel="nofollow -

    RT  https://twitter.com/#!/AndrewBensley" rel="nofollow - - AndrewBensley : Davenport family announce Hay List is running in Newmarket. John McNair has been informed and is training horse for race.



    Gotta love that LOL



  • Posted By: Lordy
    Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 9:09am
    All empty threats it seems.


    Posted By: andynr123
    Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 9:15am
    As Steve Meakes (@ourmaizcay) so eloquently pointed out on Twitter - the only person with bigger credibility issues than our federal pollies at the moment is now John McNair!

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    http://http://www.scmp.com/author/andrew-hawkins" rel="nofollow - The Griffin


    Posted By: Mayor
    Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 9:23am
    That's so unfair on John McNair and an insult to his great work on getting Hay List back from death's door to giving Black Caviar a scare in the Lightning. An absolute insult. He is perfectly within his rights to comment on the weight given to his horse, which I also believe was excessive. The more trainers who voice their opinions, the better. What sort of world it would be if you can't make a civil protest.

    -------------
    Mayor


    Posted By: Lordy
    Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 9:29am
    Mayor, nobody doubts his ability as a horseman.  Trouble is you can't believe too much that comes out of his mouth.  Its not like he intentionally misleads people.  He's just constantly changing his mind, sometimes even mid sentence.


    Posted By: topoftherise
    Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 9:35am
    i think thats pretty harsh on McNair, it does seem the owners have changed their minds and pushed McNair into the Newmarket. 

    i think the owners will look pretty silly if they get beat - giving 8kg to foxwedge is a tough ask

    i like that McNair said he wants to stay in Sydney, why should we pressure Sydney horses to race down there, i would have loved to see the big fella go around at the farm on chipping norton day. 

    now its a shame for the ATC could have seen Pinker Pinker and Hay List around on the same day would have been a great result for south-west sydney




    Posted By: ChrisB
    Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 9:45am

    This story reminds of a kid who gets out, spits the dummy and takes his bat and ball and cries home. McNair is a very poor loser.

    As Lordy said, as a horseman he may be one of the best in the country, but the Davenport's should ban him from the media.
     
    58.5 for Hay List is a perfectly reasonable weight in my opinion considering what Caviar carried last year. If he is good enough he will win.......if not he loses but so what, he would not lose one admirer for taking on the top races like all champs.


    Posted By: Browndog
    Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 9:45am
    Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

    Mayor, nobody doubts his ability as a horseman.  Trouble is you can't believe too much that comes out of his mouth.  Its not like he intentionally misleads people.  He's just constantly changing his mind, sometimes even mid sentence.

    With the statement today, is it a case of McNair trying to keep up with what Davenports are doing and trying to look like he is the one in control? Not a good position for the trainer to be in and explains a lot of conflicting statements


    Posted By: Lordy
    Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 9:59am
    58.5kg is on the money for weight.  I was surprised initially to hear his strong objections.  Pretty much all the horses are accurately weighted.  Some are just more suited under the handicap conditions than others.


    Posted By: andynr123
    Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 10:00am
    I don't necessarily agree with Steve's comments, or perhaps how harsh they are, but he has a point.

    He's whinging that Black Caviar is too close to Hay List at the weights - on their WFA clashes, he would be meeting her 5kg better! That's about right given how far he's been beaten by her!


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    http://http://www.scmp.com/author/andrew-hawkins" rel="nofollow - The Griffin


    Posted By: princerubiton
    Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 10:06am
    Harsh on McNair? Read the quotes in today's paper from him. Totally irrational.

    Everyone is obsessed with Foxwedge's weight. Why shouldn't he get a light weight. He won one half decent race and he fell in against Masthead.


    Posted By: Lordy
    Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 10:21am
    Foxwedge is 100% accurately weighted based on performane to date. He can't be given more for what people believe he's capable of. Let him do it first and then he can earn the extra.


    Posted By: djebel
    Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 10:33am
    Originally posted by andynr123 andynr123 wrote:

    As Steve Meakes (@ourmaizcay) so eloquently pointed out on Twitter - the only person with bigger credibility issues than our federal pollies at the moment is now John McNair!


    I dont agree with that. I am sure John McNair is very sincere in his thoughts on the situation.


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    reductio ad absurdum






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