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OLE KIRK

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VOYAGER View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 8:45pm
Anything over $30,000 and you are having a lend surely.

His spring was similar to The Autumn Suns, but he ahs not done anything in the autumn.

Good genes, and he might become the next I Am Invincible. but not for at least 3 seasons. 
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 10:14pm
Wouldn't pay 5000 let alone 30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 8:00am

Why do you say that?


Edited by Gay3 - 07 Oct 2024 at 5:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 8:16am
Just another overhyped 3yo
Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 8:34am
That may be true but hes pedigree page is ok for breeding is it not?
All too Hard seems to go okay and commands more than 5k
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacko1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 3:22pm
Overrated but also poorly managed. The Futurity was the wrong race, even if they wanted the WFA G1 it was too stronger field. And then backing up yesterday from a wide draw was another big ask. The Autumn Sun was a better horse, but that horses autumn was a good example of connections knowing a horses limits and placing it well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2021 at 5:36am
I looked it up, and the only horses Written Tycoon has sired that have won Gr-1 races at 1400m or 1600m are Luna Rossa (Manuwatu Sire's Produce in NZ), Odeum (One Thousand Guineas), and Ole Kirk -- all three races are in that autumn 2yo/spring 3yo age group.  All of his open-company Gr-1 winners won those races between 1000m - 1350m.

In his female line, his dam is a full sister to a once-in-a-lifetime sprinter and half-sister to a very good colt who never won past 1600m, in a family where 95% of the runners win at 1400m or less.  All of Bel Esprit's Group winners are sprinters.  

His breeding has caught up with him: matured earlier than his peers, caught a 1600m Gr-1 with that developmental advantage, and now that advantage is gone.  

It's possible that he could return to form by dropping back to sprint races that are run at set weights or handicaps rather than WFA.  A double of the Newmarket and Goodwood might suit, or he could head to Brisbane for the Stradbroke and the 10,000.  While those aren't as prestigious as WFA Gr-1's, they are still races he could win in open company.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2021 at 6:23am
Pedigree-wise, Casino Prince's foals tend to win in the 1400-1800 distance range.  This fits with All Too Hard's performance and the relatively less-sprinty performance of his progeny, and indicates that All Too Hard probably isn't the family member to use as a performance benchmark.  Magnus looks like a better horse to use as a performance benchmark.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2022 at 1:16pm
Personally, I don't mind him & love his intelligent head Heart




Edited by Gay3 - 08 Oct 2024 at 8:32pm
It takes a wise man a lifetime to grow a tree and a fool five minutes to kill one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2024 at 5:09pm
Could possibly be a few red  faces in view of his promising start Wink

‘I really believe in this horse’ 

Vinery predicting big things from Ole Kirk after his first runners make explosive start

Vinery Stud believe they are sitting on a volcano named Ole Kirk (Written Tycoon) after a start to siring life that has them feeling validated in what they saw in the stallion, delighted with the present and bubbling with enough excitement over the future to elicit a major call.

“I think he’s an extremely strong chance of being champion first season sire,” Vinery’s general manager Peter Orton said.

The prediction came after Ole Kirk – valued at $40 million by a recent share trade – began in explosive fashion when his runners hit the track on Saturday.

His first became a stakes winner, with King Kirk taking the Breeders’ Plate (Gr 3, 1000m). His second was black-type placed, with O’ Ole runner up in the Gimcrack Stakes (Gr 3, 1000m).

Both had won at Sydney’s first official two-year-old trials on September 23, sparking a surge in Ole Kirk interest leading to a personal-high book this spring capped at around 175 mares, following previous allocations of 170 in his initial season of 2021, then 160 and 146.

The Gilgai Farm-bred seven-year-old – who became a sensation for Team Hawkes in winning the Golden Rose (Gr 1, 14000m) and Caulfield Guineas (Gr 1, 1600m) back-to-back in 2020 – still stands at his starting fee of $55,000 (inc GST).

That already puts him on top of Vinery’s seven-stallion roster, but if his early indications stand up over the season – and Orton believes there is much more quality about to hit the tracks – breeders will likely expect an increase next year.

“It’s a big call to be talking about first season sires’ titles now, but I really believe in this horse,” Orton told ANZ Bloodstock News. “Just to see him tick all the boxes he’s ticking is fantastic.

“We certainly had an opinion of him, and that was backed up as we were preparing his stock for sale. And then the feedback we were getting from the breakers, the pre-trainers and trainers was exactly what we expected.

“And then to see his runners make such a great start – we couldn’t have asked for better.”

These are still early days, of course. Ole Kirk’s position atop the first season sires’ table comes after just four two-year-old races across the country, all on Saturday.

But the fact he is achieving off relatively small numbers is another factor convincing Vinery they made the right move in buying into the regally-bred entire after his powerful Caulfield Guineas triumph.

From those 170 first season covers, Ole Kirk so far has just 28 named foals. For comparison’s sake, the Australian Stud Book shows fellow first season sire Farnan has 40 from 192 covers, Snitzel 55 from 165, and Capitalist 57 from 243.

And Orton believes that like their sire, Ole Kirk’s first foals will only grow better as this season and next progress.

“Numbers are important, but the mares and the quality of the farm they come from are really important to us, and the support this horse has got and the farms that they’re on is really good. We know his stock aren’t being rushed,” Orton said.

“When you look at the horse and what he did, and look at his stock, they’re going to be back-end two-year-olds and three-year-olds. So whatever he’s doing now is a bonus right across the board. That’s the mark of a very good stallion.

“Over the next few months as the two-year-old races get going, you’ll see more and more and more.

“The horses getting ready for the Magic Millions will run in the races leading up to the Magic Millions. They’re not going to run now and then spell. So we’ve still got plenty of time to see more and more of his stock. There’s still a lot of quality in the wings, and we’ve seen just a glimpse in jump-outs and trials.

“We know there are some really good ones out there that haven’t been shown yet, so the best is yet to come. We’re in for a very good time with this horse.”

Orton flagged that Chris Waller had a “strong opinion” of Saveur (Ole Kirk), a filly bought at the Gold Coast by Star Thoroughbreds and Randwick Bloodstock for $150,000, who ran second in a Rosehill barrier trial last Friday.

Vinery were the underbidder on O’ Ole, also bred by Gilgai Farm, who was bought by Bjorn Baker and Clarke Bloodstock for $325,000 at the Magic Millions Gold Coast sale.

“We were keen to get hold of a couple of good ones. We just missed out on O’ Ole, so I’m glad she’s got into good hands with Bjorn and his team,” Orton said.

“We did buy into a few through the sales, given the chance, but we ended up putting two of his colts into our colts syndicate because they were just really good horses. They could turn into anything.”

Those as yet unnamed colts are out of Listed winner Wayupinthesky (Snitzel), and city-winner Pop Girl (Snitzel), with Vinery part-owner Neil Werrett breeding the latter and her colt.

With a five per cent share in Ole Kirk selling in July for $2 million valuing Ole Kirk at $40m, Vinery’s choice in moving in on the stallion four years ago appears to have been more than vindicated.

But apart from type and track results, the stallion’s pedigree also underscores his appeal.

Not only is he out of a sister to Gilgai’s all-time superstar Black Caviar in the unraced Naturale (Bel Esprit/Helsinge), he is entirely Danehill-free. Not only that, the ubiquitous Northern Dancer (Nearctic) makes no appearances in his first five generations, and only four times in his first eight.

The Ged Nolan-bred King Kirk, incidentally, is also Danehill-free, thanks also to his dam Oxford Angel (Nicconi). And remarkably, he only has Northern Dancer once in his first five generations.

“It’s very hard to get a proper stallion, and they’re very expensive,” Orton said. “But the one thing we do try to stick to is pedigree.

“And Ole Kirk, he was a great racehorse, but the depth of pedigree he had was amazing. And if you get good types on the ground and you follow it up with that pedigree, you’re in good shape.

“Being out of a full sister to Black Caviar doesn’t hurt, and we were certainly keen on him being an outcross. Outcross is what we got in business with, with Red Ransom and More Than Ready, so he certainly follows on from that.

“Being free of Danehill, he fits in with a lot of mares here. And being free of Northern Dancer in his first five generations is a big head start when you consider the horses that are at stud down here.”

Orton said interest in Ole Kirk had boomed after King Kirk and O’ Ole won at Randwick’s trials.

“He had a good book already coming to him, and off the back of the trials we picked up a lot of mares, so he’s pretty well filled up from that,” he said. “We’ll try to fit in what we can without overusing him.

“A lot of mares came back to him from previous seasons because he was beautifully bred, and a good racehorse.

“But breeders weren’t really ready to fully let go until he showed what he could do. We had a feeling about what he could do, and it’s good to see him follow up, because you’re often wrong.

“People were keen on him, but it just took that bit of extra confidence from the trials for them to really pin their ears back and get into him.”

It takes a wise man a lifetime to grow a tree and a fool five minutes to kill one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Take2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2024 at 7:22pm
All male duplications for 7 Generations, (then lalun twice in the 8th) so much for the observation about all male duplications
change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2024 at 7:55pm
No-ones said anything about male duplications in his pedigree until now M8, so what is your point exactly?  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Take2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2024 at 10:52pm
i dont think i inferred anyone from here has said that, however i have read countless times from many sources, that all male duplications in a pedigree is not really desirable, hence 7 gens all male dups, is worthy of mention.
Seeing as i have your attention, but on a slightly different bent , First Settler, is inbred 3x3 to Last Tycoon, and 3x4 Kenmare, and nothing read anywhere about it, if it was danehill 3x3 would be a different story, (again, not saying anyone in particular did or didn't say anything re that, either)and i know one swallow dont make it a spring etc etc/ heres a quote from Dr Google " 3x3 inbreeding like this isn't the most desirable (4x4 is usually preferred), but it's certainly not the worst and is seen fairly frequently with some success. for example, the 2008 Kentucky Derby and Preakness winner Big Brown is inbred 3x3 to Northern Dancer and 3x4 to Damascus."

from a previous post on the subject of all male duplications
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Male duplications
    Posted: 20 Dec 2023 at 4:01pm
Interested in knowing facts or opinions on ALL male duplications in Males V female pedigree's 

From my own readings All male in a filly is ok 
However in a Male a little sweating




Edited by Take2 - 08 Oct 2024 at 10:58pm
change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote QuizAbout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2025 at 5:37pm
2025 FEE - 99,000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2025 at 10:26pm
He is on a roll,   and he is up there,,,,,Reckon he will be  a good one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Foxseal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2025 at 10:38pm
Can someone post his winners/runners & other relevant breeding stats that would form the basis for Vinery would use to justify a stallion fee increase from $55k to $99k?

He had 121 live foals in his first crop, which are now 2yo’s.  But from this he’s only had 2 stakes winners - a G3 Breeders Plate and a Listed St Albans Plate.  Hardly taking the racing world by storm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2025 at 11:31pm
Total WinsWin%Indiv.WinnersTotal RunsIndiv.RunnersTotal PMAv.PM/Indiv.RunnerWinners to Runners%
Total1342.0%113118$2,666,234$148,12461.1

The Spirit of Zero resuming. Raymond(Midnight) Resuming next week. Lulu (Rising) spelling. Alli - Spelling. Jeffrey spelling. Ambi Boo spelling. Sh'bourne Angel spelling.
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Total Stakes WinnersTotal G1 WinnersTotal RunnersStakes Winners to Runners (AUS & NZ only)
All401136.4%
2yo401136.4%
The Spirit of Zero resuming. Raymond(Midnight) Resuming next week. Lulu (Rising) spelling. Alli - Spelling. Jeffrey spelling. Ambi Boo spelling. Sh'bourne Angel spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2025 at 11:33pm
pretty good numbers for first season Foxseal. is it worth the rise. I don't know. It's too hard to keep up with. 
The Spirit of Zero resuming. Raymond(Midnight) Resuming next week. Lulu (Rising) spelling. Alli - Spelling. Jeffrey spelling. Ambi Boo spelling. Sh'bourne Angel spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote QuizAbout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2025 at 2:08am
Personally, i thought it would have justified it to maybe 75k max, even better 66k, i think at 99k they are pricing themselves out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2025 at 9:56am
I've been lucky with the ones I picked from the sales with winners O' Ole (MM) and TIberius.  But without a G1 winner I find $99K a tad dear.  The Autumn Sun and Castelvecchio are sitting far cheaper and that is with three and two G1 winners to their names.  Even Dundeel is cheaper with multiple G1 winners and two young sire sons performing at stud.

He had a very good first season and will no doubt get that top class horse in the future but maybe a rise to in the $60's would of been fairer.  It will be interesting to see what price they put on Farnan also as he has started just as well.  But the only first season sire with a G1 winner is Brutal and his fee is far below the other two.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote VSP. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2025 at 12:17am
A 1% share in Ole Kirk sold at auction today for $600,000 - putting a $60 million value on the stallion.
He celebrated with his 20th individual first crop winner at Sandown today too!
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