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Bonjour View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Zealand Racing
    Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 7:28am
Answer me this, NZ's leading owner spends 6 mil plus on yearlings at Karaka sales.....the majority of races there are less than 6K to the winner once Jock and Trainer are paid, plus, you have to pay riding fee, and transport costs are prohibitive, so, why the hell would you invest that kind of money to expect ROI of SFA!!!! Something's not right, or are they happy over there to race for ribbons and sacks of spuds.

It makes no sense at all.....and no-one asks the questions.....why?


Edited by Gay3 - 01 Jan 2024 at 6:55pm
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Bonjour View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 7:33am
May I add......the Karaka Million evening, is subsidised by 500k from industry funds, they are closed/restricted races, they are broke, their TAB is in meltdown, the salaries paid to executives are disproportionate to the size of the industry and it's earnings.......they are so far in the red if they had shareholders there would be hell to pay.....they are unaccountable, and there should be a royal commission regarding the demise of a once proud and prosperous industry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Momentum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 9:06am
Was thinking the same thing myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 1:42pm
Without looking and confirming I assume it is te Akai and without confirming many and possibly all the horses are syndicated so the buyers of shares are playing lotto and hoping they can get an xcellent, te Akai shark, probabeel etc who can clean up big races over in NZ and be competitive in Oz. One can only assume that would be the motivation. Either way I don't think David Ellis loses.
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 6:23pm
I would be interested in how many of these horses are on sold to Asia.

I also think that Te Akau, if that is who we are talking about, invests in the stallions in NZ and Australia, so I would think that if you have shares in Savabeel, It's A Dundeel, Ocean Park and Tavistock, they could offset some of that 6 million dollars with their earnings.

I do agree however with your OP, Bonjour, that an investor spending that much, to only race in NZ does not make sense, and that to me anyway, means that they would need to compensate some of that investment through betting, which would make interesting reading as well.

   
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

I would be interested in how many of these horses are on sold to Asia.


Wouldn't that be the goal - To get an Asia buyer to overpay for your stock? The more the merrier...






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 6:42pm
I think Brudder, it is for all trainers in NZ.

Even breeders or investors, who by weanlings and then on sell as yearlings.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 6:43pm
NZ breeders and indeed the entire local industry should be eternally thankful for Ellis, who's topped the buying bench 15 years in a row.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacko1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 6:55pm
Yeah I have wondered similar when seeing them spend $500,000 or so on horses. I guess they have investors who are willing to take a punt. Good for the local industry though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 7:00pm
Eternally grateful!....is he a god or something?
Maybe he should run the industry, make it stronger.
What happens when he dies?
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Isaac soloman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 7:02pm
The Asian bench can very quickly withdraw their support and then what?
How long will the rise and rise continue? Anywhere in the racing industry.
I cant see the Chinese investing enduring if they continue to make losses.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 7:05pm
Where would the industry be without his presence?  Most of us know the answer to that, and the answer wouldn't make good reading.

What happens when he dies?  Well for starters you'll have less reason to continually troll my posts or add nothing to a discussion.Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 7:20pm

Fearless Ellis comes out on top yet again

David Ellis continues his spending spree at the top level with his NZ$875,000 purchase of the day’s session-topper, a colt by Savabeel from Windsor Park Stud’s draft.

The Te Akau boss cemented his position as the leading purchaser by aggregate after a spend of NZ$5,585,000 for 21 horses while Australian buyers have outlaid NZ$22,322,500 on 152 lots.

The dominant force

Te Akau chief David Ellis has been the leading buyer at New Zealand Bloodstock’s National Yearling Sale for well over a decade and he dominated second day proceedings with a host of purchases, including the top price of NZ$875,000 for Lot 454.

Ellis is fearless and rarely does he finish second and there was no way he was going to settle for a runner-up finish when it came to Windsor Park Stud’s stand-out son of champion sire Savabeel.

“I would have been happy to get him for NZ$750,000, but these top colts have a lot of good judges on them and sometimes you have to pay a bit more,” he said.

“A really top colt like this could turn out to be cheap, if not then he’s very expensive, but I expect him to be very good. Jamie (Richards) is so excited to be training him and it’s been a successful couple of days for Te Akau.

“I’m thrilled to have got so many nice horses and I can’t wait for them to be racing for Te Akau. I also want them for New Zealand racing and the studs here.

“If we want to take this industry to the next level we have to buy these top-quality colts at the sales.”

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Straight arrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 7:59pm
The boat sailed on NZ racing years ago! Greedy people Selling there sole. And poor racing administrators! They only now trade to Asia , and the odd one to OZ if the OZ bloodstock agent can make money! It’s why half of OZ racing is full of Kiwis. That is fact. The more that get in will bring our product down. Can remember years ago trainers complaining and then jockeys. But with the current imagration polices in place? We are in a way? NZ .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 8:03pm
Karaka Book 1 2020: Australian buyers outlaid NZ$22,322,500 on 152 lots at an average close to $150k..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Straight arrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 8:35pm
So what are you saying?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2020 at 7:36am
Their domestic product is rooted, a root and branch dissection is the only answer. The appointment of duds and I'm being polite, to run the industry there has been disastrous and they are now in their death throes.

The breeders have had it good for so long, and there is a cartel of northern trainers that also rode the gravy train, selling off good stock to the detriment of industry.   If you keep selling good stock, there has to be payback time...and that has come in the shape of a diminished studbook, inadequate racing and a loss making TAB...

Please remember NZ does not have a gambling culture - not like ours - and if they had a revenue stream from bookmakers taxation it might be different.  The NZ Government has been propping racing up for years, let me give you an example, the Racing Board had 30 million is reserves, they borrowed against that to increase maiden stakes from 7-5K to 10K only 3 seasons ago, yes, back in 2014 they were racing for 7-5K for your maiden, plus find the money for the jockey and nom fees, they still charge for jocks fee and if you are lucky enough to get to R72, and race for 11k at midweeks, you have to find an acceptance fee also.

Nothing will change, there are too many with private agendas and protecting their arse to make changes, plus the tax system in NZ is very generous indeed toward the breeding and racing/selling sector.

Those Kiwi's that dance to the tune of others, have/will end up in Oz, those that play the tune remain in NZ......and/or are just trapped and can't flee even if they wanted to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Straight arrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2020 at 9:35am
BONJOUR? F......g well said. I wanted to put down something similar. But I could Not put it into words so eloquently. Well done
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 9:26am
I apologise in advance to Gay if there is a thread already regarding the above mentioned!

CEO of AIR New Zealand Greg Foran has offered to take a 250,000 pay cut in light of the airlines poor performance re the Coronavirus.

Well, NZ Racing, both bodies, the NZRB and NZTR have executives on the most ludicrous salaries, some approaching and some exceeding that of the Prime Minister, NZ Racing is losing millions, and I mean tens of millions each year, their operating costs, the NZRB/RITA has been announced as 211 million for the past financial year, yet returned only 100 million to the industry.

NZ needs a Royal Commission into the misuse of industry funds........at least Greg Foran at AIR NZ had the integrity to offer up a pay cut in recognition of circumstances ......the suits at HQ NZR are disgusting in their behaviour, there is no accountability, good governance and or propitiatory !

Let's hope this never happens here, we have a gambling culture that funds our industry, no oncourse bookmakers in NZ, it's funding is untenable and the moral zealots across the Tasman find bookmaking offensive. Their TAB has a corporate arm of fixed price dealers, they are not bookmakers backsides, and the odds they offer are hilarious, only attracting the true mug punter/loser.......only an independent transparent commission could uncover the ineptitude and mismanagement that destroyed a once proud and prosperous industry over there.

There is a cartel of about 50 people over there that have prospered handsomely from this incumbent system, some breeders, trainers and owners, plus bloodstock agents that will suffer greatly should change for the better come about. There is no capital gains on sales of horses overseas, their taxation system is far worse than ours by returns to the industry......the select few will continue to enjoy for a while yet the creaming, the majority will keep sliding down the slippery slope to oblivion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 10:45am
The online auction house Gavel House has a record catalogue this week, some absolutely lovely mares with foals at foot by great commercial stallions and some well performed racing stock.

This is reflective of an industry in the abyss, those responsible for the demise of the industry over there will avoid punishment as is the MO in NZ.

There have been several race meetings abandoned due to lack of numbers, the writing is on the wall. 

An example of bastard behaviour, the Karaka Millions series are financialy assisted by the industry with more than a half million dollars of industry funds injected to a closed race day, the breeders that breed to race are excluded. This is akin to a cartel and should be outlawed!

The industry is broke, flat broke, it can't fund or sustain itself and yet this practice is condoned and promoted? 

It beggars belief that people have not been called to account, but it is NZ after all and good governance, transparency, integrity and proprietary are missing in all walks of life and industry. Shame, but I fear they are genetically defected over there, we should cut the trans Tasman cable and let them drift off into the Pacific, fear we might just catch something far worse than Coronavirus!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by Bonjour Bonjour wrote:

Answer me this, NZ's leading owner spends 6 mil plus on yearlings at Karaka sales.....the majority of races there are less than 6K to the winner once Jock and Trainer are paid, plus, you have to pay riding fee, and transport costs are prohibitive, so, why the hell would you invest that kind of money to expect ROI of SFA!!!! Something's not right, or are they happy over there to race for ribbons and sacks of spuds.

It makes no sense at all.....and no-one asks the questions.....why?

He races a lot of horses in Singapore.

Some of them must become stallions and broodmares ?

It's not all skullduggery.

Sangster was paying far more for far less racing return and making squillions.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 12:20pm
RaceBook NameM WALKER
NationalityNEW ZEALANDER
Year Born1972
Emailteakaumark@hotmail.com
Tel96428105
AddressStable Block 108A, 206B, Singapore Racecourse, 1 Turf Club Avenue, Singapore 738078
Websitehttp://www.teakauracing.com/
Record-breaking New Zealander Mark Walker is a five-time Premiership winning trainer and arrived in Singapore with outstanding credentials. The 2009/10 season saw him set a new record of 108 winners, bettering the 17 year-old mark of 104 previously held by Dave and Paul O’Sullivan. He also became the youngest trainer to win the Premiership when at 31 he took the prize in the 2003/04 season and in 2008/09 established a New Zealand record in prizemoney won – earning NZ$3.71 million. More than 800 winners have passed through his hands, of which more than 90 have been in “black type” races, including 20 at Group 1 level, among the most notable in New Zealand being three Kelt Capital Stakes including back-to-back victories in 2007 and 2008 with Princess Coup and in Australia the TJ Smith Handicap with Darci Brahma in 2005. Walker has quickly made his mark in Singapore, landing his first feature race at his first full season in 2011 with FLYING FULTON in the Group 3 Committee's Prize. FLYING FULTON has added more 'black type' wins en route to getting voted Polytrack Champion in 2012. It has been onwards and upwards for Walker thereafter, culminating with a first Singapore champion trainer title in 2015, and winning it again in 2017. Walker hit another milestone in 2018 when he landed his first Singapore Group 1 win with ELITE INVINCIBLE in the Charity Bowl at the first year the former Patron's Bowl was renamed as such. It got even better when the same horse handed him his first Singapore Gold Cup later the same year.
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 12:23pm
When I say a lot it means 12. LOL
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 2:24pm
Next time you race multiple horses in NZ give me a hoy, I'll share an owners drink voucher with you and a racebook!........it's a time machine, a very select few have prospered under the Junta that rule, the vast majority have either gone broke or are about to.

The maidens are worth 10k.......you have to pay up for a jockey, nom fees, and transport and if you get one that gets to r72, you have an acceptance fee also....for an 11k race........in effect you are subsidising the obscene, inflated salaries of useless incompetent executives that couldn't be fired because the fools that hired them were non-accountable.......

As for ROI.....do your math, have a look at Savabeel, good fillies, his colts are useless (name a good son of Savabeel at stud???).....in general.....the bloke that is obsessed with buying as many as he can wont go near that stat, and of course if you buy enough you will get the odd one that might just make a stallion prospect.

As for integrity....there is no competent, regular drug testing regime in place - its totally hit & miss.  There has been no pre-race TC02 testing since prior to Christmas...which means all those big money races over the Summer in NZ have been run without any pre-race testing....

If I had my time again, I would start up a tax minimisation scheme [totally legal] and attract many with tax problem and encourage them to buy in......it's a win win, if the horse is no bloody good, who cares?...it's a win win......why didn't I think of it sooner.

NZ is a tax minimisers dream as there is no capital gains tax on assets (horses sold overseas).......plus overseas prizemoney won does not attract income tax if you are running your horses as a business in NZ.....maybe that's the reason you don't see the bigger trainers in NZ moving to Oz.....it's too lucrative too stay put!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2020 at 10:56am
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 7:50am
Today's Woodville meeting? Hello? My trainer has scratched, he's very concerned as they don't irrigate and it's a good 2 with sun and wind........fields of 4 and 5, don't irrigate? they don't pre race test either, what a bloody disgrace that joint is....#closeitdown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2020 at 7:45am
Another integrity and transparency issue over there, a senior jockey escorted from the track after a very serious altercation? It's alleged he assaulted a female rider, have we read about this? Why not, does he have name suppression?........it's just terrible in NZ, how long they can keep racing is beyond me.

In their major daily newspaper recently was a story relating to a $3.8 million mistake in their annual racing financial report, an error in the red.......a simple mistake? or something more sinister? the joke continues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 6:45pm
Ok, NZ Racing gone for a month, it will be more of course, but why has no one faced criminal charges over there? I mean racing management. They will use the COVID19 as an excuse for being nearly 4 million behind their projected budget, and for the 3.8 million dollar mistake on their botched bonus bets scheme.....

Someone, sometime must be held to account, the fudged figures, the bull dust or fairytales they expelled posing as revenue projections, etc etc......it beggars belief that it was all just mistakes......fiddlesticks

The lies and deceit have been going on for years, the give up has been the sliding out a side door of many former management heads, slithering like snakes into the darkness.

John Allen the former CEO of NZRB was out of his league, there was every chance he had good intentions and was fed untruths from his underlings ......he came from a non racing background so he could be easily manipulated, he is gone now and many no hopers have gone also, but the damage remains and have caused a sunset industry......it was once a proud racing nation, now it's neither.

I've got no time for Adern, she's a fraud, but I don't think she can be bailed up by Racing and held at gunpoint to help them out with a 14 million dollar handout, they can't stand on their own feet, when the gov stops holding their hand, they'll topple over....so be it...RIP NZ Racing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 8:29pm
Brian de Lore, a prominent and repeated racing journalist in NZ mentions the 3.8 million dollar 'mistake' might in fact be some 'creative accounting'' and should be the subject of an independent investigation.

Mrs Bonjour and moi invested more than a $million and a half  into a racing and breeding enterprise in NZ following the 2011 projected revenue statements to the press, only to discover the whole shebang was a load of codswallop and tripe......we escaped with about half of our original investment, and we were bloody lucky.

No one has ever had to stand trial for the fraudulent and misleading behaviour over nearly 10 years and probably more......yet.....if they ever instigated a royal commission into racing I would gladly swear on the bible and let rip......there is a cartel and everyone knows it, .....I hope to hell the Karma bus is warming up.......fingers crossed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lopartega Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2020 at 8:48am
Bonjour the whole world is completely corrupt. Any industry that involves money they'll be people in that industry that are trying to rort others. Watched a documentary a while back about the people in charge of giving out the "organic" seal of approval on food items. Hidden cameras showed all it took to get that seal of approval was a brown paper bag under a desk and some "influencing" by certain corrupt politicians. As someone who tries to eat Organic i was disgusted.

One corrupt individual is most of the time replaced by someone equally corrupt. Can you imagine if we knew everything that went on under darkness in the racing industry. Man has been corrupt since day dot. Unfortunately that will never change



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