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New Pandemic - Covid Malaise !

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oneonesit View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Jun 2022 at 9:29pm
No one is talking about it. But it is obvious - a lot of people just are not as keen to work as hard post Covid

I call it the Covid Malaise - it is alive & well !

Staff shortages everywhere - across all industries. I get the lack of backpackers - but it’s got to be more than that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 8:34am
The only thing that has changed is that we have fewer back packers and industries such as hospitality and fruit and vegetable harvesting are suffering because Australian's largly don't want to these types of jobs, "to hard, not near where I want to live, don't like the hours" are common excuses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 8:58am
I think covid brought about a  realisation that life isn't just about work. there would be many ppl who were close to retirement who found they could get by ok and took the option of finishing up early. I am a dual tradesmen but have chosen to swap with my wife who's now full-time.  I do the cooking, cleaning, run the farm , train a couple of horses and run the kids around and whilst it's busy I love being with my kids. they are 12 andx14 so not a lot of time left at home.  I have had plenty of job offers since quitting my old job but it's important to prioritise.  you are only here once. 
Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 9:31am
You might call it that oneone but everyone else calls it long COVID and it has been discussed for 2 years on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 11:04am
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

The only thing that has changed is that we have fewer back packers and industries such as hospitality and fruit and vegetable harvesting are suffering because Australian's largly don't want to these types of jobs, "to hard, not near where I want to live, don't like the hours" are common excuses.
How many backpackers worked for the airlines ? I heard an industry guy saying last night absenteeism was running at 30% across their industry. And some of that may well be "long covid" PT - however a lot of it is also Covid Malaise. To be fair - the little Irish twat hasn't helped Qantas. That's what happens when you opportunistically decimate your own long-term employee base during a pandemic - & then expect everyone to rally around the cause when you want to fire it up again. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 1:19pm
It's actually the Coalition Malaise. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 4:18pm
THey offer minimum wage and part time work.  There are plenty of jobs out there at the moment and people are picking and choosing.

And the amount of people around at the moment with colds, flu or covid I'm amazed anyone is working.  We are covid central out here.  Even my local doctors had to shut down because someone came in and spread it.  What happened to testing if you had any cold like symtoms.  I think everyone is giving that a miss now also so covid is just going around and around.  And yes lots of people get away with a mild case but I've found three others like myself who took over two months to get any get up and go again. 

So hard to do a job when all you can do is sleep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 4:32pm
Good call slowdown. Wish you all the best with the kids.

Pretty accurate djebel.

Oneonesit, as for airlines. Joyce has been desperate to get rid of as many workers as possible since 2007, and was slowly achieving it over 10 years. The pandemic made it possible to get rid of a bulk of them in one fell swoop. They are now understaffed in every area and most jobs are outsourced. All the while getting massive handouts from government. Shareholders are happy right now but the airline is suffering a public relations nightmare. Who knows where it will end.

Vivid malaise is probably true but as furious pointed out people are becoming complacent. Everywhere you go there are people coughing and sneezing constantly. They should be staying home especially with the flu season well and truly upon us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 4:47pm
Agree Kav. Covid has allowed many industries to get away with stuff that they couldn't have in normal times. Coming home to roost for many of them now. Its a funny thing that - workers like to think they are appreciated.

Re Qantas - Joyce should have moved on years ago. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

Good call slowdown. Wish you all the best with the kids.

Pretty accurate djebel.

Oneonesit, as for airlines. Joyce has been desperate to get rid of as many workers as possible since 2007, and was slowly achieving it over 10 years. The pandemic made it possible to get rid of a bulk of them in one fell swoop. They are now understaffed in every area and most jobs are outsourced. All the while getting massive handouts from government. Shareholders are happy right now but the airline is suffering a public relations nightmare. Who knows where it will end.

Vivid malaise is probably true but as furious pointed out people are becoming complacent. Everywhere you go there are people coughing and sneezing constantly. They should be staying home especially with the flu season well and truly upon us.
Can’t believe shareholders are happy.
They have a negative tangible net worth, dividends are years away.
The Irishman is trashing the brand on a daily basis.
He can only charge premium prices, if the public perceive its offering a premium product.
It’s currently a poorly performing budget airline, masquerading as something a lot more than that.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 5:06pm
Very true Rusty. I heard him interviewed on 2GB last week. Got it fairly easy by Fordham I thought. Didn't once hear him mention poor planning by his senior management. At one stage he mentioned customers being part of the problem Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 5:09pm
I was waiting for him to bring poor old Izzie back into it. May as well have - he got blamed for everything else LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 5:53pm
Rusty,
Most shareholders are ignorant and short-sighted. They see recovery in share price over last 2 years and are happy. But totally agree that Joyce is trashing it but he doesn't care as he is out of there very soon and has accumulated so much in salary and bonuses over the years. The crash and shareholders dismay will occur after he is gone. Just like the energy 'crisis' we are now having which happened as soon as Morrison government were booted out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 6:11pm
I think many are responsible for the current energy crisis - much of it outside of Australia. And whilst the LNP have lacked vision no doubt - others like the Greens / ALP / Teals are guilty of demonising traditional fossil fuel sources before they were in a position to ensure alternatives were in place. I mean it was no secret that 65% of our power was fossil fuel reliant. It was also no secret that the continued demonising had convinced the big players to cut their losses re operating hours & maintenance. Take away the rubbish hysteria - & allow more managed transmission - & things would be much better now

The ALP are responsible now. I think they realise the hole they have helped did is going to take a long time to crawl out of
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 6:20pm
I think a more accurate analogy would be that the LNP have dug the hole and the ALP have come walking along at night, aware of the hole but not its size or depth and fallen in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 6:26pm
This from another thread:

Typical of that disgraced lot:

Coalition’s $1 billion energy promise fails to power up

By David Crowe

A federal policy to spend $1 billion on new energy projects has failed to add any power to the national electricity market more than three years after the Coalition unveiled the plan with a promise to fix supply shortages and ease pressure on prices.

None of the money has been spent on the 12 projects named in March 2019 when then-prime minister Scott Morrison unveiled a program to support six hydropower schemes, five gas projects and one coal-fired power station upgrade.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by slowdown slowdown wrote:

I think covid brought about a  realisation that life isn't just about work. there would be many ppl who were close to retirement who found they could get by ok and took the option of finishing up early. I am a dual tradesmen but have chosen to swap with my wife who's now full-time.  I do the cooking, cleaning, run the farm , train a couple of horses and run the kids around and whilst it's busy I love being with my kids. they are 12 andx14 so not a lot of time left at home.  I have had plenty of job offers since quitting my old job but it's important to prioritise.  you are only here once. 

 good on you, slowdown.  Life experiences and family matter more than accumulating possessions and money.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 12:39am
thanks J.J and Kavg. not a hard decision to make. Yep family is number one. I am fortunate that my wife has a good job and loves it. I will be 59/60  when my daughter finishes high school so I may as well just roll into retirement. LOL . nahh. may go back and do a bit then or just keep training and working the farm. Either way I am very fortunate. We live in a fantastic country. 
Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 9:09am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No one is talking about it. But it is obvious - a lot of people just are not as keen to work as hard post Covid

Maybe so...but that's not why there are labour shortages.

Quote Staff shortages everywhere - across all industries. I get the lack of backpackers - but it’s got to be more than that

You're right...and it's because it's not just backpackers who have left the paid workforce.

It's a little difficult to find comprehensive statistics in Australia, but if you start putting the following articles together, you'll notice a few patterns start to jump out:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/willing-to-work-but-stuck-without-childcare-women-need-action-20220524-p5anzc.html ; --> at least 140,000 people not able to do wage work/look for wage work due to them doing unpaid care work, mostly but not entirely women.  Because the article only focuses on care work for children and not disabled family members or fragile elders, the true number is almost certainly higher.

Case in point, Tradesman left the paid workforce to do unpaid care work:
Quote I am a dual tradesmen but have chosen to swap with my wife who's now full-time.  I do the cooking, cleaning, run the farm , train a couple of horses and run the kids around and whilst it's busy I love being with my kids. they are 12 andx14 so not a lot of time left at home.
   

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-20/long-covid-in-australia-cases-symptoms-help-data/101152834 --> Unknown number of people unable to do paid work outside the home due to disability from Long Covid, but estimated to be up to 300,000 people.  This number will only increase now that the highly infectious Omicron is on the loose everywhere.  (FWIW, loosening the Covid restrictions once Omicron developed and the majority of people were vaccinated was the right call -- it's not really possible to keep something as contagious as Omicron at bay with lockdowns.)

https://theconversation.com/australia-is-missing-500-000-migrants-but-we-dont-need-visa-changes-to-lure-them-back-182322 ; --> At least 500,000 migrants who were in Australia before the pandemic are gone and have not returned (or similar groups like student workers have not returned).  500,000 people is one whole Tasmania who are gone from the workforce, and that whole Tasmania is made of people under 26 who are willing and able to pick apples for peanut wages.

These numbers are conservative and certainly aren't comprehensive.  The numbers for people doing care work and for people who have long covid aren't as easy to track as immigration numbers (which have more robust statistics).  I couldn't find any reliable statistics on early retirements or excess retirements in Australia.  Not all people who are effectively retired are dipping into their superannuation accounts, which is where most articles focused.  Despite widespread and well-acknowledged burnout amongst health care workers, and lots of anecdotal articles about workers with PTSD and other mental illnesses triggered by the stress of the pandemic, I couldn't find any reliable articles about their labour force participation.  And I couldn't find any numbers on people who are immune compromised who have stopped working outside the home because even with vaccines Covid might well kill them.

Even with all of the above disclaimers, just these three articles point to a loss to the paid workforce in Australia of somewhere between one Gold Coast and one Adelaide, gone from the working-age population in only 2 years.  If we factor in retirements, skilled immigrants leaving or not arriving (not just that one Tasmania of working holidaymakers or students, but professionals and their families), and health care worker burnout, it's more likely that Australia's workforce has lost between one Adelaide and one Perth in only 2 years.  If we stick with one Adelaide (1.3 M people out of the workforce) and the 2018 Australian population of people between 15 - 65 = 15.5 M...well, you do the math.

Those losses aren't evenly distributed.  It's unrealistic to expect that elders, people doing care work for kids, or people who don't live in or near the agricultural areas will travel to them to start doing those jobs to make up for the one Tasmania of people who are gone.  Retail, restaurants, and the hospitality sector are largely staffed by women, who were forced to leave to do care work.  Retirements and burnout are more mixed.  Either way, the dead won't come back to life, the disabled won't become well, the immigrants still aren't there, little kids and fragile elders still need care, and the people whose hearts and minds and cognitive function were damaged by this stupid awful horking plague won't go back to the places that damaged them.

This isn't just an Australian thing.  In the USA, where good numbers are easier to come by, if you count the dead, the disabled by long Covid, seniors forced into early retirement, (mostly) women forced out of the paid workforce to do care work, and the immigrants who didn't come, that country has lost somewhere between one New Zealand and one Victoria from its working-age population in only 2 years.  In the UK, which has the best count of any country in the world of who is suffering from Long Covid, up to 2 M people are living with long Covid, in a country of 67 M people.  If half of those people are too disabled to be in the paid workforce, that's 1.5% of the country's entire population, not just working age.

This kind of loss to the working-age population in such a short time frame is unprecedented outside of warfare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 9:37am
Originally posted by slowdown slowdown wrote:

I think covid brought about a  realisation that life isn't just about work. there would be many ppl who were close to retirement who found they could get by ok and took the option of finishing up early. I am a dual tradesmen but have chosen to swap with my wife who's now full-time.  I do the cooking, cleaning, run the farm , train a couple of horses and run the kids around and whilst it's busy I love being with my kids. they are 12 andx14 so not a lot of time left at home.  I have had plenty of job offers since quitting my old job but it's important to prioritise.  you are only here once. 

Slowdown, sorry, I referred to you as "Tradesman" up above.

Also, I'd like to point out what I highlighted in that other comment: that just because you're not working outside your home for a wage doesn't mean you aren't working.  Both farm work and care work are WORK and they both have value. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 9:43am
Report from China tracking over 1000  patients hospitalized with COVID for 2 years shows half are still symptomatic 2 years on and 11% have been unable to return to work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 10:28am
Originally posted by Kimberley Mine Kimberley Mine wrote:

Originally posted by slowdown slowdown wrote:

I think covid brought about a  realisation that life isn't just about work. there would be many ppl who were close to retirement who found they could get by ok and took the option of finishing up early. I am a dual tradesmen but have chosen to swap with my wife who's now full-time.  I do the cooking, cleaning, run the farm , train a couple of horses and run the kids around and whilst it's busy I love being with my kids. they are 12 andx14 so not a lot of time left at home.  I have had plenty of job offers since quitting my old job but it's important to prioritise.  you are only here once. 

Slowdown, sorry, I referred to you as "Tradesman" up above.

Also, I'd like to point out what I highlighted in that other comment: that just because you're not working outside your home for a wage doesn't mean you aren't working.  Both farm work and care work are WORK and they both have value. 
All good Kimberley, no problem at all. Something i didnt mention is that I have taken measures to increase stocking rates on our farm (wallaby fencing etc) and come next season will still contribute somewhere between 75 to 85 grand into the economy . Then there's the horses..............LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 10:47am
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

The only thing that has changed is that we have fewer back packers and industries such as hospitality and fruit and vegetable harvesting are suffering because Australian's largly don't want to these types of jobs, "to hard, not near where I want to live, don't like the hours" are common excuses.

Even aside from "too hard, too far, don't like the hours," there's no way that Australians born in Australia would be able to make up for the number of backpackers/students/working holiday-makers.  There are just too many people who are gone.

There's another element to why Australians born in Australia (ABIA, b/c I don't want to keep typing that) aren't taking harvesting and hospitality work....there are just fewer young people in the age bracket who normally take those jobs.  Per Australian Bureau of Statistics 2016 numbers, only 12% of Australians are between 15-24, the age group who would do summer picking or have a gap year.  For whatever reason, there was a birth dearth in about 2000-2003, and that relatively small age cohort are now in their late teens and early 20s.

Once again, chasing the idea of "people don't want to work" falls apart when confronted with the reality that the people just aren't there (or aren't there anymore).

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Who probably drain that 75 to 85 grand.  But we love them anyway.  Mind you yours do give you some return.  I can't get mine up and running yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 10:58am
KM you said it.  Covid hit most of my family before they even got sick with it.  Shutting down daughters tours and other daughter and son in laws party hire totally.  But both up and running again.  And I agree the lockdowns last year didn't work anymore.  To much out and about.  But people still don't seem to remember that we all get covid differently. 

 I feel sorry for long covid sufferers.  6 weeks was long enough to feel so drained.  I could still work as I only have to do a couple of hours a day to get to my hours for a fortnight and could go to bed and sleep afterwards but a nurse of cabby or train driver or tradie can't do that.  I had the brain not working for three days and panic set in.  What do those who still have that symtom do?

You only have to see our world is still straining.  Not just Australia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 10:59am
LOL exactly Furious. yes Lionel and Rebel have been very good to us.  I have decided to train a 2nd horse and have lashed out on a new float so lots of that money is spent. 10 month wait which again is part of what Kimberley is talking about. Hope yours get going soon Furious. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 11:00am
Yes - I think much of that is true Kimberley. However, I also believe the past few years has changed the mindset of many people. Many reasons - being treated poorly by their employee, been treated too well by govt subsidy, change in their work conditions making it less appealing to name a few of the more obvious. To summarise - people are looking for reasons & opportunities not to work more than they did in the past. It will only change by necessity
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You know what oneone.  I kind of feel sorry for you.  THere are more good people trying to get on with life than you know and yes there are the others but they don't even make up 1%.

Australia used to be the country where workers and employers worked hand in hand but we took on the USA big dividend policy to our detriment.  Yes people are out to get the best result for themselves they can find but at the same time you keep bringing up the poorest paid jobs and bemoaning they can't get workers.  If KM is correct and he does his homework the people just aren't there for those jobs - world wide.  THe supply chain has broken.  It's not all about subsidies or rorts.  Being home all the time can be great or terrible and usually very boring after a month or so.  

Believe in your fellow man or woman with you want to break apart the sexes.  Life isn't easy for many people.  I've got two looking to find somewhere to live.  One has had house mates for four years but they have found units to buy.  She doesn't have the funds to go past $500K and has a mad dog to cater for.  She's have more funds but paid off her hex ect.  Life isn't fair when so many people have that second investment property and I can't help her get a small place to live.  But guess what we just keep doing the best we can.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 2:32pm
Don't feel too sorry for me pls Furious.

The way i see it is pretty simple. Nearly every industry still seems to be struggling - & in recovery mode. Certainly Retail, certainly local Tourism, certainly Hospitality - so if all these industries are struggling below pre-pandemic levels - why are we seeing so much staff shortages ? Now why I accept Kimberley & yourself make fair points as to why (sickness/ carers / backpackers/ people leaving the country) I question if there has to be more to it. I have seen very few folk suffering this long-term Covid. My feeling is many an employee has been disillusioned during the Covid period - & now lack the commitment that they may have previously had. I mean i find it hard to cop that 30% of the airline industry staff are either covid crook or covid carers. They are certainly not backpackers. And that industry might be highlighting what i'm trying to say across the board - a lot of employees who now see their managements as Christmas puddings who have shafted them over the period - & will look at opportunities to not work - something they wouldn't have done in the past.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 2:44pm
Even England employing workers from Nepal and Tajikshan to do the veg and fruit picking .
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