Go to Villagebet.com.au for free horse racing tips - Click here now |
|
Moody/O'Brien/Kavanagh & Cobalt..... |
Post Reply | Page <12345 224> |
Author | ||
Group 1 Selections
Champion Joined: 11 Sep 2012 Status: Offline Points: 13740 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Not really sub, i could live with the previous moody, Peter Snowden and other feed contamination cases even though I know they were a crock of poop but what we are talking about here is a whole different ball game, this is not a trace of a drug, the level of cobalt we are talking about cannot be given "accidentally " the threshold ceiling was made high to avoid the natural production levels of cobalt, it was created to avoid the accidental build up from contaminated feed. It is also the hottest drug in town and can be heard being whispered about in corner pubs and a few people have made a lot of money giving advice on how to dose right in Australia at the moment. To get the best out of it it needs to get given at near toxic levels, like overseer pointed out this is most probably done during high intensity training and then try and taper it down to undetectable levels on raceday. There is no excuse to have this drug above the threshold level, at the level we are talking about it is a performance enhancer and a performance enhancer only, it is not stopping bleeding, it is not a masking agent, it is not a pain killer but a substance that fools the body into producing excessive amounts of oxygenated blood causing massive stress on the cardiovascular system including its network of veins and arteries as well as extreme toxicity of the thyroid. Administering cobalt is not only taking punters and fans for a ride but is also a sure fire death sentence for the horses we are betting on. So I am sorry sub if I feel a little more passionate about this one. |
||
subastral
Champion Joined: 28 Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 34887 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Who's condemning stewards? |
||
Uluru
Champion Joined: 26 Jan 2013 Location: Macedon Status: Offline Points: 2886 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Giving Cobalt to a horse is despicable. I'm surprised the minimum sentence is only 3 years. Look at the trainers who have been busted, no one who has been a member of this forum for any length of time can say they are surprised.
If you cheat you will get caught eventually. Even if, true to form, he manages to get out of this without suspension - would you give your horse to anyone who can't control their stable enough to ensure your horse is being drugged with Cobalt? No wonder he didn't want stewards to have free access to his stable - then again,maybe they did it on one of their unsupervised visits? |
||
Life's a Sham
|
||
Browndog
Moderator Group Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Location: Brunswick Hds N Status: Offline Points: 35559 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Peter Moody facing potential three-year ban over Lidari testing positive to outlawed substance cobalt
Top Victorian trainer Peter Moody attends the Magic Millions Yearling Sale on the Gold Coast last week. Picture Glenn Hampson Lidari ran second in the Turnbull Stakes at Flemington on October 4, but a urine sample subsequently revealed elevated cobalt levels. Feeling the heat: Peter Moody “devastated” about the findings. Picture Glenn Hampson The swab was tested in Western Australia and the reading confirmed in Hong Kong. Stewards are continuing to investigate and a date has not been set for a hearing. Cobalt is a naturally occurring trace element but illegal treatment can produce a similar effect to banned blood-boosting drug EPO. If Moody is found guilty without extenuating circumstances, the four-time Victorian premiership trainer would face a maximum three-year disqualification. A maximum cobalt level has been in place in Victoria for nine months. “We put in place a threshold of 200 micrograms per litre in April last year. We have had the drug’s presence confirmed by labs in Western Australia and Hong Kong,” chief steward Terry Bailey said of the Moody case. Bailey said the Lidari inquiry was “ongoing” and it would take time for all information to be digested. Moody said on Tuesday he was “devastated” when informed of the infringement. “I have no knowledge or understanding as to how this could occur and will work with the Racing Victoria Integrity Services Department to bring this matter to a conclusion as soon as possible,” Moody said. Race in question: Lucia Valentina (left) claims Peter Moody pair Lidari (centre) and Brambles to win the Turnbull Stakes in October. Picture: George Salpigtidis “I will continue to pursue this goal over the next few months and do everything possible to clear my name.” Moody is most famous as the trainer of sprinting great Black Caviar. Lidari, owned by Simon O’Donnell and Terry Henderson’s OTI Racing, may lose second-place prizemoney from the Turnbull Stakes if Moody is found guilty. Father and son team Lee and Shannon Hope last month became the first trainers to be notified a horse had returned a positive cobalt test in Victoria. The Hopes have three horses under investigation. The Australian Racing Board has told trainers on the now national cobalt threshold: “The threshold has been set at a level to allow for normal levels of cobalt supplementation through routine nutritional sources. “However, trainers are advised that the administration, particularly by injection and on multiple occasions, of certain registered vitamin supplements close to racing may result in a level of cobalt in a subsequent sample that exceeds this threshold. “Trainers are therefore advised to avoid the use of these supplements close to racing.” Lidari wins the Blamey Stakes at Flemington in March last year. Picture: Michael Klein Moody’s wife Sarah Moody tweeted on Tuesday night: “PGM’s 25 years of long hours, hard work and dedication to his profession are the reason he is where he is today.” Moody on Monday reached the triple-figure mark for winners when Second Option saluted at Yarra Valley. It is the 12th consecutive season that Moody has trained 100 winners. The Caulfield trainer has produced a remarkable 1935 winners. Cobalt doping was a major issue in harness racing but has only relatively recently become an issue in the thoroughbred industry. Last month, leading NSW trainer Chris Waller was fined $30,000 when the winner of The Metropolitan, Junoob, tested positive to Frusemide after the Group 1 win in October. Edited by Browndog - 14 Jan 2015 at 5:36am |
||
|
||
Overseer
Champion Joined: 26 Jul 2013 Status: Offline Points: 2225 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
G1S......"a sure fire death sentence". WTF - of all the bull gelati I have seen that tops the lot. You have no scientific proof that it is a sure fire death sentence. You have made that gelati up.
You also take as gospel that the threshold is absolutely correct. In the scientific community people's research needs to stand up to peer scrutiny. Funny that the research papers that led scientists to recommend this level to Racing Authorities is yet to be published in the public domain. The ARB now admits the Testosterone threshold they set in geldings (that was so high "they couldn't possibly be wrong and it will only catch the cheats") was in fact wrong - and many innocent owners and trainers suffered as a result. Until some research papers are released I won't be taking it as irrefutable. But then - Maybe there is no such thing as climate change AND the earth really is flat!!! |
||
Watch the commission go on
|
||
Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Some of the points you make Overseer are valid and really concerning.
Why are any of us surprised trainers are not easily pinned down and heavily punished when you consider the above and other posts from Overseer about stuff ups in the science? |
||
Sunline...simply supreme
|
||
subastral
Champion Joined: 28 Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 34887 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What do you guys think of the comments by the Australian Racing Board in that article? Have never heard about legal supplements being administered too close to race day elevating the cobalt to high levels.
Truth or not, surely this is Moodys out? |
||
Daraabah
Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Agreed. These comments are clearly signalling that he will get off and what he has to say to do it. Disgraceful.
|
||
Group 1 Selections
Champion Joined: 11 Sep 2012 Status: Offline Points: 13740 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
No you are the one speaking gelati overseer in the fact that abuse of the substance has the almost exact same side effects as EPO which is the excessive stress of the entire cardiovascular system till failure, EPO blood doping due to the expense of the process or because the stewards finally caught up, it was because the trackwork riders and jockeys refused to get on them when they were under the treatment for the constant fear of them dropping dead underneath them and that is a fact. You are having a crack at the science behind the substance yet what qualifications do you have to be poking holes? If you don't think that cobalt is deadly to horses and does not greatly increase the risk of cardiovascular failure then you are kidding. |
||
Mr Grieves
Champion Joined: 28 Jan 2014 Location: Canberra Status: Offline Points: 936 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
He'll get off, of course. "too big to fail"
|
||
Overseer
Champion Joined: 26 Jul 2013 Status: Offline Points: 2225 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Sure fire = greatly increase. I'm arguing with a Philistine! You need to Google for a lot longer on the topic G1S.
Believe me when I say I am qualified to talk on the subject.. "It was because the track work riders and jockeys refused to get on them when they were under treatment for the constant fear of them dropping dead underneath them and that is a fact". Well I say that is a baseless ALLEGATION. If you are a trainer doing the wrong thing treating a horse with EPO or Cobalt would you tell anyone, much less a jockey? Give me a break. Loose lips sink ships. You make this hysteria up as you go along. However it is interesting to note the number of deaths in training due to unknown causes that Waller has had? |
||
Watch the commission go on
|
||
Geraldo
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2014 Location: Kent, England Status: Offline Points: 5818 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
It was mentioned when Racing NSW were humming and ahhing a few weeks ago about threshold.
|
||
TBV - where it is the Silly Season all year round.
|
||
jujuno
Champion Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Coasting Status: Offline Points: 36536 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
making the general news this morning...they say it is "a shock"...well after several substance discoveries over the years, none of which has been properly explained, it isn't a shock to the racing community...
leaves a sour taste in relation to the big mare's career... he will get away with it again...a slap on the wrist...because of who he is... |
||
Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...
|
||
Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Online Points: 52021 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I'm sure I've read that excess cobalt has lead to several raceday deaths in the U.S.
|
||
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
|
||
Browndog
Moderator Group Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Location: Brunswick Hds N Status: Offline Points: 35559 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
IS COBALT A KILLER IN HORSES?by Ray Paulick | 01.13.2014 | 8:13am Cobalt isn’t listed in the 15 pages of drugs published by the Association of Racing Commissioners International in its “Uniform Classification Guidelines for Foreign Substances.” So it caught many people by surprise last week when Jeff Gural, owner of Meadowlands Racing and Entertainment, said two trainers would be banned from the New Jersey harness track because horses in their care tested out of competition were found to have massive amounts of Cobalt in their system. But should it really have been a surprise? Articles in scientific journals discussing use of Cobalt for blood doping by human athletes have been around nearly a decade. Experiments with laboratory rats show that Cobalt improved endurance. Administration of Cobalt in human athletes has similar results to recombinant human erythropoietin (EPO), adding red blood cells. It is inexpensive and easy to acquire, but difficult to find in drug tests because the detection window is brief – between four and six hours. Cobalt also can be fatal. A 2013 article in Hematology magazine, entitled “Blood manipulation: current challenges from an anti-doping perspective,” said chronic Cobalt exposure can have severe side effects. “Regular intake of high Cobalt salt doses comes with a real risk of organ injury, such as thyroid dysfunction, cardiotoxicity, and heart failure,” Danish author Jakob Morkeberg writes. HIF’s (hypoxia-inducible factor stabilizers) can affect several other genes from the EPO gene, some of which might have tumor-growth-promoting potential. Therefore, using this substance could pose a real health risk to the athlete.” That’s what the Ontario Racing Commission advised in August 2009 when it posted a notice to the industryunder the headline, “Warning: if used in excess, Cobalt sulfate can harm your horse.” The dangers of Cobalt were known long before the substance was used as a performance-enhancing drug in human or equine athletics. In the mid-1960s a brewery in Quebec, Canada, was among several North American beer makers to add Cobalt to its formula to stabilize foam. An alarming number of heavy beer drinkers in Quebec developed heart disease and died from cardiovascular failure, and the evidence led to the breweries that were adding Cobalt to their beer. The practice was quickly stopped, and so, too, did the deaths. Tests taken out of competition by security personnel for Meadowlands were sent to the Hong Kong Jockey Club laboratory for evaluation. According to sources, the Standardbred trainers whose horses tested for high levels of Cobalt were also administering large doses of thyroxin to reduce risk of thyroid problems. This is not just a North American problem: Australian racing authorities, concerned with possible Cobalt use, are developing threshold levels in urine. All that’s needed to test for Cobalt is an ICP mass spectrometer and personnel trained on the diagnostic equipment. But post-race testing is thought to be virtually useless, since the substance is detectable only for a short time after dosing. In the wake of last week’s actions by Meadowlands in neighboring New Jersey, the New York Gaming Commission said it is acquiring the necessary equipment and will begin testing for Cobalt. “The Commission supports efforts by track operators to exclude parties who put horse health and safety in jeopardy and call into question the integrity of horse racing,” The New York Gaming Commission said in a statement published in the New York Daily News. “New York’s Equine Drug Testing Program is continually evolving. The Morrisville laboratory has acquired on loan the equipment to test for Cobalt. Personnel are being trained to test for Cobalt, and George Maylin (the director of Equine Drug Testing in New York) has been consulting with Meadowlands officials to help establish the proper thresholds for determining Cobalt positives.” In December, the California Horse Racing Board began testing for Cobalt in horses examined post-mortem in the state’s necropsy program. However, none of the seven horses in Bob Baffert’s care that died over a 16-month period from November 2011 to March 2013 were tested for Cobalt, either at the time of the original examination or during subsequent re-testing. In the CHRB report on the investigation of the Baffert sudden death horses, the trainer admitted to investigators that all of his horses routinely were being given thyroxin. A statement from a CHRB communications officer who indicated Arthur would not respond to questions directly said: “Cobalt has not historically been an issue in livestock deaths. The Cobalt issue in racing is fairly new. Dr. Arthur doubts that any jurisdiction was testing for Cobalt at the time of these deaths.” Regarding the sudden death Baffert horses, the spokesman said: “Dr. Arthur contacted the lab in November to inquire about re-testing for Cobalt. He was told there were no samples left. By that, the lab meant liver samples, the tissue typically used at the lab for heavy metal testing. Upon further investigation, the lab does have samples of other tissues and fluids from all but two of the horses. The validated method of testing for Cobalt is for liver. Nonetheless, Dr. Arthur is working with his colleagues on methods and a determination of which of those other tissues would be the next best for Cobalt testing. This additional testing will be done once they have those answers.” Gural, as the owner of Meadowlands, is circumventing commissions. His team of experts and security personnel has established a policy – testing with threshold levels – making it clear anyone giving this dangerous substance to their horses will not be welcome to participate at his racetrack. New to the Paulick Report? Click here to sign up for our daily email newsletter to keep up on this and other stories happening in the Thoroughbred industryhttp://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/is-cobalt-a-killer-in-horses/ |
||
|
||
Browndog
Moderator Group Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Location: Brunswick Hds N Status: Offline Points: 35559 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
AR.178C (1) The following prohibited substances when present at or below the concentrations respectively set out are excepted from the provisions of AR.178B and AR.178H:- “(l) Cobalt at a mass concentration of 200 micrograms per litre in urine.” Cobalt is a naturally occurring trace element which may normally be present in horses at very low levels as a result of the ingestion of feedstuffs that contain it in trace amounts. Cobalt is also present in the structure of vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin). However, it is known that excessive amounts of cobalt have an effect on the blood system (AR.178B(1)) and that it is a hypoxia inducible factor (HIF)-1 stabiliser (AR.177B(2)(l)) and a haematopoietic agent (AR.178B(2)). Accordingly, it is a prohibited substance pursuant to AR.178B(1), AR.177B(2)(l) and AR.178B(2) when occurring at levels above those naturally occurring or as a result of routine nutritional sources. This threshold has been determined following a national survey of the racing horse population which measured cobalt levels in normal racehorses during training and racing. The threshold has been set at a level to allow for normal levels of cobalt supplementation through routine nutritional sources. However, trainers are advised that the administration, particularly by injection and on multiple occasions, of certain registered vitamin supplements close to racing may result in a level of cobalt in a subsequent sample that exceeds this threshold. Trainers are therefore advised to avoid the use of these supplements close to racing. Examples of injectable vitamin supplements that contain cobalt and/or vitamin B12 include, but are not limited to, V.A.M. injection, Hemo-15 and Hemop. |
||
|
||
Browndog
Moderator Group Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Location: Brunswick Hds N Status: Offline Points: 35559 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|
Snap!!
|
||
|
||
subastral
Champion Joined: 28 Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 34887 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Interestingly Matt Stewart from the Herald Sun just tweeted that Cobalt isnt only Moody and to stand by.......
|
||
Browndog
Moderator Group Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Location: Brunswick Hds N Status: Offline Points: 35559 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Cobalt - it doesn't end with Moody. Stand by. Plus, 3 year ban only if he guilty of administering rather than presenting horse on raceday |
||
|
||
magic_idol
Champion Joined: 05 Nov 2009 Location: Queensland Status: Offline Points: 1684 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Hahaha Least im picking the right Horses :-)..Front Runners that seem to have that Little Extra !!! :-) ..Little did I know how much extra !!!
|
||
Happy Fit Horses Win Races :-)
|
||
Browndog
Moderator Group Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Location: Brunswick Hds N Status: Offline Points: 35559 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Peter Moody, Lee and Shannon Hope, believed to be not the only horse trainers facing positive cobalt swabs
The Herald Sun understands Peter Moody, and Lee and Shannon Hope, are not the only trainers to have returned a positive test to the drug. It is unclear if only one more trainer will be informed of a positive test today or in the next few days. Moody was informed yesterday that one of his spring carnival runners, the stayer Lidari, tested positive to cobalt, which is believed to have similar properties to EPO. Moody issued a statement that he was “devastated’’ by the positive test, which would carry a three year ban if he was found guilty of administering the drug. PETER MOODY VOWS TO CLEAR NAME LEE AND SHANNON HOPE FACE BANS Bailey said a three-year ban would be “high end’’ and only applied if Moody was proved to have been responsible for the illegal treatment. Bailey said his team would continue their investigation into the circumstances of the positive test in a bid to establish who, if anyone, was responsible. Bailey said Moody would be interviewed at least once, as would his staff including vets. Moody’s feed and treatment records will also be analysed. |
||
|
||
Overseer
Champion Joined: 26 Jul 2013 Status: Offline Points: 2225 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The idea , G1S, I would imagine behind using either EPO or Cobalt be it in a racehorse, cyclist, etc is to increase red blood cells WITHOUT killing the receiver. Yes - cyclists did die taking EPO in the Tour but the vast majority (I.e. The whole US Postal service) did not die. I agree with you that at toxic levels both EPO and Cobalt could have catastrophic effects but so for that matter could Asprin, Panadol, etc. You initially state that the use of Cobalt "is a sure fire death sentence". - that, Sir, is a falsehood. You also state Cobalt IS toxic to horses - I say in most cases, when used appropriately (I.e administering Vitamin B12 for a non specific anaemia), it IS NOT. If abused it CAN be toxic but the idea, surely, is not to use it at a toxic level.It certainly has the potential to increase the risk of arterial thrombosis (Google it G1S) with all its sequelae. My point is that it is rarely, if ever, used at such levels. What would be the point of giving all your horses a "sure fire death sentence"?
|
||
Watch the commission go on
|
||
Overseer
Champion Joined: 26 Jul 2013 Status: Offline Points: 2225 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Did I hear someone say Mark Kavanagh? Did he change vets recently????
|
||
Watch the commission go on
|
||
Go Flash Go
Champion Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 10250 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Haha that's right, you don't have to know
|
||
Overseer
Champion Joined: 26 Jul 2013 Status: Offline Points: 2225 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Alleluia Subby - Someone with a brain! Yes , the act that Vitamin B12 (or substances containing either it or Cobalt derivatives that are in Multi Vitamin preparations that have been used routinely in stables for years) could lead to breaking the Cobalt threshold was not advertised when either RVL OR Racing NSW introduced their Cobalt rules. It wasn't untilthe ARB made the release ( and hence Racing NSW) on Decemer 17th that participants were advised of this - well after Lidari raced. Now I would call that a big Get Out Of Jail Free card - what about you??? |
||
Watch the commission go on
|
||
Morston
Champion Joined: 01 Aug 2011 Status: Offline Points: 704 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
In most respects it does not matter if the substance is dangerous or not. If it is banned it is banned full stop.
If Lemonade was banned and a horse was tested positive for it then it would be an offence....and the trainer is responsible regardess of how it got there....otherwise a horse could be given anything but it would be considered OK if the trainer simply says it was in the feed, member of staff, mistake or little green men put it there. .....unless they are a small time trainer of course. No wonder race followers are cynical |
||
kavg
Champion Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3993 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
As someone mentioned Cobalt is a naturally occurring mineral and not a narcotic.
It also is present in soil and horses do eat soil. I'm sure I've seen Lidari eat soil many times......... PM "Your honour, we have trouble keeping Lidari's head up and the fool likes to eat dirt which has Cobalt. We just can't stop him." Judge: "Charges dismissed. Lidari found guilty of bringing racing into disrepute." |
||
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
||
Browndog
Moderator Group Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Location: Brunswick Hds N Status: Offline Points: 35559 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Is the burden of proof on Moody to show he didn't personally administer something containing cobalt, or on the authorities to prove he did?
I would imagine with ''small time''one or two man training operations it would be easier to prove personal trainer involvement over a large organisation with many layers of responsibility
|
||
|
||
Morston
Champion Joined: 01 Aug 2011 Status: Offline Points: 704 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
But surely the trainer is ulimately responsible for ensuring systems are in place to prevent such things happening.....Otherwise the 'big time' trainers are being given an infallible 'get out of jail free' card. Surely part of the responsibility of being 'big time' is that the trainer can deal with such matters? |
||
Browndog
Moderator Group Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Location: Brunswick Hds N Status: Offline Points: 35559 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Cobalt - it doesn't end with Moody. Stand by. Plus, 3 year ban only if he guilty of administering rather than presenting horse on raceday |
||
|
||
Post Reply | Page <12345 224> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |