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Middle East War

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 8:37am
I believe the terrorists were led by future PM Menachem Begin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 9:58am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Do you know that the founders of Zionist Israel were terrorists? They did many terroristy things like the King David Hotel bombing in 1946- 91 dead.Shocked


At the events to mark the 60th anniversary of the attack, Benjamin Netanyahu, then chairman of Likud and Leader of the Opposition in the Knesset, opined that the bombing was a legitimate act with a military target, distinguishing it from an act of terror intended to harm civilians."[35]LOL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun



7000+ missiles and rockets fired into Israel since Oct 7, who knows how many before that. It's so constant they have an 'iron dome' to protect their citizens. Funny how you continue to brush all that aside. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plastic letters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 11:05am
Convenient, isn’t it, when they have one agenda to push
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hello Sunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 11:39am
The iron dome would be handy for Ukraine.
Is it "exported"?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 11:52am
They have the US HYMARS equivalent and are getting the superior ATACMS. It of course covers a much larger are that the Israeli version but has still had a 90+% success over Kyiv..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 11:58am
They are very expensive to buy and use. A single HYMARS missile costs about $170k and a ATACMS missile $860k. The launcher systems $1Billion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 12:11pm
Hamas uses home made Qassam rockets which cost around $500-800 each. It costs Israel around $100k to shoot one down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 12:12pm
We found that Israel’s cruel policies of segregation, dispossession and exclusion across all territories under it


Probably just practicing what was dished out to them by most countries and races for hundreds of years, as pay back.
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 12:59pm



wtf ?

Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plastic letters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 1:55pm
Why bother watching all that stuff fiddles. There’s so much crap on YouTube and social media. It’s soul destroying 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plastic letters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 5:07pm

Top House Democrats evacuated from DNC headquarters as police clash with protesters calling for Gaza ceasefire


Law enforcement clashed with protesters calling for a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war outside of the Washington headquarters of the Democratic National Committee Wednesday night, the latest eruption of tensions across the country over t

House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, House Minority Whip Katherine Clark and Rep. Pete Aguilar were inside as the clash between protesters and police sparked and turned violent, according to authorities.

Six officers were injured during the melee Wednesday evening

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 6:33pm
Any updates re the IDF's evidence of the hospital being a hub?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 10:58pm
BBC and other journalists have been through and had a look and reported on it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 7:25am

IDF evidence so far falls well short of al-Shifa hospital being Hamas HQ

Julian Borgerin Washington

Footage to date fails to prove Gaza complex was nerve centre for attacks on Israel, as military has claimed

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/17/idf-evidence-so-far-falls-well-short-of-al-shifa-hospital-being-hamas-hq?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 8:09am

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/17/opinion/us-military-aid-war-israel.html

By Josh Paul

Mr. Paul is a former director in the State Department’s political-military affairs bureau, which oversees U.S. arms transfers.


On the Israeli side, blind U.S. security guarantees have not provided a path to peace. Instead, they have provided Israel with the reassurance that it can engage in increasingly destructive efforts, such as the expansion of illegal settlements in the West Bank, without any real consequences. At the same time, Israel has become a global leader in weapons exports and boasts one of the most technologically sophisticated militaries in the world. All of these factors have created a sense among Israeli policymakers that they can indefinitely contain — physically and politically — the Palestinian question.

Nowhere is this more apparent than in the recent efforts, driven by the United States, first under the Trump administration and continuing under President Biden, to pursue normalization between Israel and the Arab world. While in many ways this normalization is long overdue, it has been premised on the notion that economic incentives — and a shared regional security interest in deterring malign Iranian influence — can integrate Israel, indefinite occupation and all, into the Arab world.

This premise has been shattered — likely intentionally on Hamas’s part — by the Gaza conflict and its rapid recentering of the Palestinian cause on a global stage. As much as the United States, Israel and Arab leaders such as Saudi Arabia’s de facto ruler, Mohammed bin Salman, would like to frame security in pragmatic, nation-to-nation terms, Arab populations still care deeply about the fate of the Palestinians. As civilian deaths in Gaza and the West Bank continue to mount, it is clear any sort of Saudi normalization agreement with Israel that does not also include substantive progress on a political solution for the Palestinian cause will be difficult to advance.

An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 9:55am
Bahrain which was one of the original signatories to that Abraham Accords agreement recently withdrew it's Ambassador from Israel and said they were cutting economic ties. Other Arabic countries have suggested they are reconsidering their positions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baghdad Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 10:07am
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Bahrain which was one of the original signatories to that Abraham Accords agreement recently withdrew it's Ambassador from Israel and said they were cutting economic ties. Other Arabic countries have suggested they are reconsidering their positions.

 
What else would you expect from an Arabic nation? When a country from, say South America, a Pacific Island, one like Tuvalu, yes, the island nation we just handed over millions to, or Northern Europe does the same you might have a point, but until then breaking economic ties with Israel is nothing more than support for an " Islamic brotherhood".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 11:29am
Barhain was the original signatory to the Abraham Accords Bob, they opened an Embassy in Tel Aviv 3 years ago as other Arab states joined. They were all keen to normalize relations with Israel and many followed.

 It was all going well 3 years on with Biden negotiating to bring Saudi Arabia into the group. It came unstuck because Palestinians were ignored in the process. Apart from trade and tourism it was supposed to consolidate a block against Iran. Iran's proxies said no and here we are with the Accords on the verge of falling apart..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 11:31pm


Panspermia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 9:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 10:33am
There's so much bullshtting news coming in from this conflict, what happened to the hospital that Israel supposedly bombed on purpose ? There are lies coming from both sides but most of the outrageous ones are from media outlets who support Palestine, like the death toll numbers and Hamas saying Israel is lying they found weapons in tunnels and in hospitals. I mean are we really trusting anything that comes out of the mouths of terrorists ? These same people who use others as shields for their cause, and slay innocent people in kibutz's for no reason. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 10:36am
The media complaining that IDF has allowed independent media to verify weapons inside hospitals and in tunnels etc..? So what they just let all the press wander around in tunnels ready to be killed by booby traps or explosives, of course the IDF has to clear any area for safety otherwise there would be hell to pay should just let anyone/press in there to verify. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 11:54am
They need to do it ASAP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horlicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 1:56pm
Report from Washington Post of some progress

Israel, the United States and Hamas have agreed to a tentative deal that would free dozens of women and children held hostage in Gaza, in exchange for a five-day pause in fighting.

The release, which could begin within the next several days — barring last-minute hitches — could lead to the first sustained pause in conflict in Gaza, according to people familiar with its provisions.

Under the terms of a detailed, six-page agreement, all parties to the conflict would freeze combat operations for at least five days while an initial 50 or more hostages are released in smaller batches every 24 hours. It was not immediately clear how many of the 239 people believed to be in captivity in Gaza would be released under the deal. Overhead surveillance would monitor movement on the ground to police the pause.

The stop in fighting is also intended to allow a significant increase in the amount of humanitarian assistance, including fuel, to enter the besieged enclave from Egypt.

The outline of a deal was put together during weeks of talks in Doha, Qatar among Israel, the United States and Hamas, indirectly represented by Qatari mediators, according to Arab and other diplomats. But it remained unclear until now that Israel would agree to temporarily pause its offensive in Gaza, provided the conditions were right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 2:03pm
What would Hamas gain from it though?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horlicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 2:08pm
Agreed there does not seem to be anything in that report stayer, however there was reports earlier that some release of prisoners held by Israel might be under consideration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 2:17pm
That would be the sticking point, probably. I can't imagine Israel agreeing to that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horlicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 2:28pm
Will be interesting to see. The White House have just said there is no agreement yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plastic letters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

What would Hamas gain from it though?

They would get a stop to their human shields being killed but I suspect they don’t really care about that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 3:16pm
Hamas would love a little break in fighting, would give them a chance to regroup, refuel and set up booby traps, move hostages, sort out better positions for fighting etc. 
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