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Middle East War

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Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 9:18am

This is not your usual Hamas-Israel dust-up. The Gaza-Israel border is only 37 miles long, but the shock waves this war will unleash will not only thrust Israel and the Palestinians of Gaza into turmoil, but will also slam into Ukraine and Saudi Arabia and most likely Iran. Why? Any prolonged Israel-Hamas war could divert more U.S. military equipment needed by Kyiv to Tel Aviv, and it will make the proposed Saudi-Israeli normalization deal impossible — for now. And if it turns out that Iran encouraged the Hamas attack to scuttle that Israeli-Saudi deal, it could raise tensions between Israel and Iran and Tehran’s Lebanese proxy, Hezbollah, and also between Saudi Arabia and Iran. This is an incredibly dangerous moment on multiple fronts.

But going back to Nahum’s point: Why is this war such a disaster for Israel, worse than the Yom Kippur surprise attack from Egypt and Syria, which happened 50 years and one day ago? For starters, said Nahum, there is the sheer humiliation of it for the Israeli military: “In 1973 we were attacked by the biggest Arab army, Egypt.”

This time Israel was invaded in 22 locations outside the Gaza Strip, including communities as far as 15 miles inside Israel, by a military force belonging to “the equivalent of Luxembourg.” And yet this tiny force not only invaded Israel, overwhelming Israeli border troops; it took Israeli hostages back to Gaza across that same border — a border where Israel had spent roughly $1 billion erecting a barrier that was supposed to be virtually impenetrable. That is a shocking blow to Israel’s deterrent capabilities.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/07/opinion/israel-hamas-attack-friedman.html


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 9:28am
Spot on and worse than that, the Israeli intelligence failed spectaculrly and their much hyped Iron Dome, David's Sling and Arrow anti missile systems failed badly.

With Hezbollah having one of the biggest missile arsenal in the world with 150,000 missiles pointing at a country a third the size of Tasmania, Israel needs to think about their next moves. They have so many that Iran has been supplying Putin with Hezbollah missiles for his Ukraine war.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by jujuno jujuno wrote:

 Learn history, djebel...

 Geek

How about you show the links to your copy and paste.
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 12:33pm
Whilst ever a Jewish state is smack bang in the middle of a hate territory it will be living a scared and insecure life.

It was utterly ridiculous putting it there. 


Edited by djebel - 09 Oct 2023 at 12:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 12:50pm
There is no way out of this.  The Jews and Arabs lived together for years.  Even a few christians in the mix.  Then the crusades happened and it seems nothing has settle down since.

Yes the Jews did own Israel historically.  Funny that bit like the Aborigines in Australia.  But guilt came into the equation.  Lets face it.  The world failed the German and European Jews and yes the survivors  had to go somewhere and a group wanted Israel.  Which was then owned by the Palestinians.  So the land was up and given to others and we wiped our hands of it like pilot.  What a mess.

Yes it will effect the ukrainian war.  I don't think it will ever be solved.  Hatred in the middle east goes on for years.  One side burns with injustice and the other side does the same when someone steps in and bombs or maims.  

How can this end.  Israel seems to have most of its people trained as soldiers.  Hamas seems to keep women and children as shields and lets face it the wrong people die all the time.

Our world is a mess because we keep trying to solve ancient wrongs.  I don't see anything changing unless every country open their borders for anyone who wants to live there.  And can you imagine that ever happening!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 12:56pm
"And can you imagine that ever happening!"

Can you imagine 20 million people steaming into Sydney harbour?Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:02pm
Most people love the country they are born in.  With peace some might even return home.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:06pm
There are less than 10m people in Israel.

I wonder how many have ever had a good night's sleep.

Surely, for their own sanity, they would want to live elsewhere. 
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hello Sunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:16pm
watching from afar, and grabs on nightly news, for a period of time, Israel grab, takeover of Palestinian land bulldozing of Palestinian homes,, for their own Israeli  people, would that have not been provoking ?
Could this not have been negotiated? Or land offered elsewhere?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:20pm
There was a plan to make a part of SA the Jewish safe haven wasn't there? Way back when.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:21pm
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by jujuno jujuno wrote:

 Learn history, djebel...

 Geek

How about you show the links to your copy and paste.

 From the Smithsonian...

 

The U.S. Government Turned Away Thousands of Jewish Refugees, Fearing That They Were Nazi Spies

In a long tradition of “persecuting the refugee,” the State Department and FDR claimed that Jewish immigrants could threaten national security

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by jujuno jujuno wrote:

 Learn history, djebel...

 Geek

How about you show the links to your copy and paste.

 how about you look it up yourself. Did you think I wrote it myself?

 Geek
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:28pm
China was also a destination for Jews escaping Hitler in WW11. 20,000 were relocated to Shanghai and several thousand still live there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

There are less than 10m people in Israel.

I wonder how many have ever had a good night's sleep.

Surely, for their own sanity, they would want to live elsewhere. 

 WHERE?

 Anti-Semitism is rife in a lot of countries.

 Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:33pm
"If Israel is to become another theocracy in the middle east, it seem that we should just build a fence around the place and let the theocracies duke it out. And if one comes out, it will be one too many.

This is what I think of theocracies too.

Draft the ultra-orthodox, cut off their hair, and send them to Gaza. Time for them to shut up and put up.

Amen"

snippet of a NYTimes conversation
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plastic letters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

There are less than 10m people in Israel.

I wonder how many have ever had a good night's sleep.

Surely, for their own sanity, they would want to live elsewhere. 

Coming from a yes voter. The Jews should just bugger off from their homeland😀
Nothing like selective racism is thereWink
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Lovely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by Plastic letters Plastic letters wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

There are less than 10m people in Israel.

I wonder how many have ever had a good night's sleep.

Surely, for their own sanity, they would want to live elsewhere. 

Coming from a yes voter. The Jews should just bugger off from their homeland😀
Nothing like selective racism is thereWink


I guess I am not talking with the brightest sparks on the planet.

I assume you bright sparks think what I have said is anti Jew or anti Israel ?
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:56pm
Imagine living in a house where the neighbor on your left, right and the rear caused your existence to be hell.

I think I'd move.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 1:58pm
you obviously do not understand how difficult it is for Jewish people to be accepted anywhere...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 2:01pm
There are far more Jewish people living elsewhere than there are in Israel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 2:02pm
Just so you know, I was responding to Tlaz's post, djebel. PL posted just before I did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 2:15pm
Just curious where you think  the jews should go ?  They need a homeland, and thats it.
Would you just want to bugger off and wander the earth if the yes vote got in, and the Koori want their homeland returned to them ? ( Hypothetically ).
Where should they go ?  Where would you go if you were displaced ? Would you want to give up your country and wander aimlessly around the world begging to be given shelter ?
No, you wouldnt and neither do they.  That land was given to them, right or wrong as it may be, and now its their homeland.
There will never be peace in that area no matter who does what.
Hammas and Hezbollah are terrorists who want power , and to rule people under their harsh laws, and no matter if they got Israel back tomorrow, do you believe for one minute it would all stop there ?



animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 2:18pm
What an incredible argument.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 2:19pm
Well you give us some of your great ideas about what should happen , and lets compare incredible
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 2:25pm
I don't suppose there is a lot that can be done now.

All the mistakes were done in 1948 and the lead up.

The world now has to live with it.

reductio ad absurdum
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Refer ALP Election Promises
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 3:16pm
How long will they be celebrating when Israel obliterates their heroes ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2023 at 3:17pm
Look I lived two doors away from a palastinian  growing up.  A lovely man until anything was said about his homeland.  Some things they continue to feel even after years.  It's a mess.  May be if Hitler hadn't come to power it wouldn't of happened but we all want to blame someone and it seems the Jews get a lot of flak.  Then also the Arabs get a lot of flak.  But even in Europe it took alot of common sense to have the second world war end like it did.  With the winners being far more reasonable and not so dictatorial.

Can that happen in the middle east or the ukraine. Or for that matter would it happen today if Trump were in control.  Of course not.  We'd find who ever lost ground down under the winners feet.  What's new.  Nothing.  Lessons which showed us the best way to overcome our hatred of the enemy could be even showed with the Snowy Mountains Scheme after the war when enermies had to live and work with each other and guess what found they were pretty much the same! 


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