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Mating advice- outcross needed

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Ninski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ninski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mating advice- outcross needed
    Posted: 25 Jul 2021 at 3:43pm
Hi Forumites
I picked up a lovely (and well-bred) NASD mare, she is unraced, looking to send her somewhere in NSW for the 10-20k mark… she needs an outcross stallion with a lot of size as she’s small. I am hoping for a commercial result but it’s all very hard to guess of course. Any ideas welcomed. ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2021 at 4:08pm
Bob Peters has been successful, ie Regal Power and Arcadia Queen and others, experimenting with the Redoutes Choice mare x Pierro/Lonhro cross. 
This won’t open but can be looked up. 
Denman, Demerit, Beneficial, O’Lohnro 
I’m no expert, what do others think? Right track?
If she’s small she definitely doesn’t want a really tall big boned stallion for her first mating. May be problematic with foaling down.


Edited by Sister Dot - 25 Jul 2021 at 4:09pm
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Second Chance View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2021 at 4:23pm
Need name (and thus info on distaff side) before being able to suggest possible outcross stallions.
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furious View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2021 at 4:38pm
Why does everybody think its only the stallions that matter!  Like SC said.  You start with what has worked for the female line.  Then bring in the stallions and look for crosses.  But you always have to start with your female line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldflight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2021 at 11:51pm

Hi Ninski,

As a recipient of the shared knowledge from these learned folks.

I would suggest the following is a minimum.

 

Mares Name

Mares Age

Mares breeding history or fresh off the track / issue other than ability that could have impacted on this. (minus the obligatory Rose Coloured Glasses) or (G Waterhouse summary)

 

Any knowledge of foals so far, or

any traits you have noticed from the Family; look small, look huge, I know you said small but what do the halves look like is it a one off or is it a trait.

 

What you wish to breed, to sell or to race, I know you say commercial but is this to sell or to get into a good stable?

She needs an outcross why? In-bred to what NSD female family or Redoute’s or Danehill or the dams female family?

 

I only say this to help you so close to the season, so you get full investment from the Group.

You need path of least resistance, as all of these folk are busy in the lead up to the most important part of their collective year, Mating their own mares.

If you want buy-in from the group make it as easy as possible, to get the best result.

 

PS:

In my humble NSD will be the leading home bred broodmare sire in Australia and not from were people think, he was a steak knife sire early on, if you bred to RD and had a second mare you could not afford or reconcile to go to RD, JM offered NSD, so he got a broad cross section of colonial mares and that in my humble will key into a huge group of mares that most would not expect.

 

Cheers and best of Luck OldFlight


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 9:17am
Checking back in here, Ninski -- did you get any info you were looking for?

Knowing only her sire, your fee bracket, and a desire to add size, the following might appeal.  Only one is proven, so keep that in mind.

Star Turn, $16,500 at Vinery --> Fast, early horse whose foals are selling fairly for the fee.  He had the best % of winners to runners by FAR from last season's first crop sires with more than 10 starters.  Pedigree-wise he has only one line to Danehill in the 4th generation through a relatively uncommon source (Lion Hunter) and the rest of his pedigree is an interesting pick-and-mix of NZ, AUS, USA, CAN, and IRE bloodlines.  He is completely free of Sir Ivor, which may or may not be useful for your mare.

Peltzer, $16,500 at Twin Hills --> One line of Danehill via Flying Spur, So You Think and Elusive Quality are probably outcrosses you're looking for.  I'm lukewarm on him, compared to the others on this list.

Vino Rosso, $13,750 at Spendthrift --> he was a quality racehorse who wanted to run 2000m and his family is packed with horses who want to run 1600-2200m. Street Cry on his mare line is a game-changer: Curlin has mostly sired high-quality dirt horses in North America, but Street Cry sired horses who ran anywhere on anything. If this would be your mare's first mating and her front legs are iffy, I would pass on Vino Rosso until you know what she produces as he has two lines to Deputy Minister, who for all his quality had a mess of a front end.    

Harry Angel, $16,500 at Darley --> very fast sprinter and almost certainly an outcross.  Both his sire and dam are producing good-quality racehorses from all kinds of different horses, which is a good sign.  Further back in his mare line you find the useful USA-based stallion Stephen Got Even, who was very much in the Magnus/Al Maher/Artie Schiller category of "solid stallions who sire good racehorses."  He has a couple of crops of foals on the ground now so you can see what you're getting.  His average and median weanling sales prices were fair for the fee, with a large enough sample size (about 14 babies) to be confident in the results.

Saxon Warrior, 13,750 at Coolmore --> Pedigree-wise he should be a "mostly outcross" with one line to Danehill and he has the size you want.  His immediate mare line is exceptional and his extended female family has stakes-producing talent in Australia (Awesome Rock, I'm Feeling Lucky). Racing-talent wise, he was the 2nd best 3yo of his group after the sadly missed Roaring Lion. I have a hard time getting a feel for commercial appeal on him, though.  Only a handful of weanlings went through public auction in Australia last year, and I'm generally wary of small sample size error.  

Just outside your price range w/o negotiation:

Omaha Beach, $22,000 at Spendthrift.  -->  Almost certainly an outcross to everything except Danzig.  His 2nd dam is one of the most important North American broodmares of the last 2 decades, he's a half to a champion, and even the ones in the family who aren't stakes winners are winning.  Dehere has a strong affinity for Sir Ivor in general and Zabeel in particular (see: Rebel Raider).

Admire Mars, $22,000 at Arrowfield --> Free of Danzig, lots of Northern Dancer from other sources including the outstanding sire Northern Taste.  He defeated both Waikuku and Beauty Generation in the Hong Kong Mile, which speaks to his ability.  This might be one to get a pro opinion on (instead of a random stranger on the internet) -- presumably Arrowfield would want to use him with their Not a Single Doubt mares, and if not why not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 9:53am
Last visit - the day he/she posted Confused
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Ninski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ninski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2021 at 5:46pm
Thank you very much for all your replies. I really appreciate the in depth and helpful comments. 
And I’m sorry for my tardy response; I had extenuating circumstances. 
Thanks again. 
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Second Chance View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2021 at 6:41pm
Whilst KM has done his level best, none of us can adequately respond to your request in the absence of info in relation to the issues raised by Oldflight.
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