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Master Of Wine

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djebel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 9:33am
The boom on this bloke is staggering.

If he lives up to it he will be greater than Winx.

8 Starts in Australia for 3 straight wins and yet to miss a place.


MASTER OF WINE (GER)Bay colt 2015 
Maxios
Bay 2008
Monsun
Bay or brown 1990
Konigsstuhl
Brown 1976
Dschingis Khan
Brown 1961
Tamerlane
Donna Diana
1952
1956
1-e
6-e
Konigskronung
Brown 1965
Tiepoletto
Kronung
1956
1957
2-c
5-h
Mosella
Bay 1985
Surumu
Chestnut 1974
Literat
Surama
1965
1970
7-b
19>
Monasia
Bay 1979
Authi
Monacensia
1970
1969
14-b
8-a
Moonlight's Box
Bay 1996
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Special
Bay 1969
Forli
Thong
1963
1964
3-b
5-h
Coup de Genie
Bay 1991
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Coup de Folie
Bay 1982
Halo
Raise the Standard
1969
1978
2-d
2-d
Magma
Bay 2010
Dubai Destination
Bay 1999
Kingmambo
Bay 1990
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Miesque
Bay 1984
Nureyev
Pasadoble
1977
1979
5-h
20>
Mysterial
Bay or brown 1994
Alleged
Bay 1974
Hoist the Flag
Princess Pout
1968
1966
5-i
2-s
Mysteries
Chestnut 1986
Seattle Slew
Phydilla
1974
1978
13-c
6-b
Mahamuni
Bay 1999
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Or Vision
Chestnut 1983
Irish River
Chestnut 1976
Riverman
Irish Star
1969
1960
10-a
1-w
Luv Luvin'
Chestnut 1977
Raise a Native
Ringing Bells
1961
1971
8-f
9-b
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 4m Nureyev3f x 5f Special4m x 5f 
  Raise a Native5m x 5m,5f Mr Prospector4f x 4m




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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 9:47am
Vince Arccardi 

'I'd like to back it now': analyst declares Cups star


Rising star Master Of Wine is capable of winning the Caulfield Cup, Cox Plate and Melbourne Cup all in the same year, according to leading sectionals analyst Vince Accardi.

The Team Hawkes-trained stayer resumed at Rosehill over 1400 metres on Saturday and won 3.5 lengths eased down in a performance that had Accardi questioning his best distance.

"I'm sitting here saying, 'Is this a stayer?'," Accardi said on the Year Round Carnival podcast.

"That's what I'm asking myself, 'is he a stayer or have I got something wrong?'


"[He's run] 2.2 lengths above IVR benchmark. In its raw sense that doesn't come across as being something that's out of this world but for a horse that's a specialist when you get beyond 2000 metres, to do that first up … I'm asking myself this question."

Accardi said the Rupert Legh-owned galloper made a statement in the spring when he won consecutive races in Sydney over 2000 and 2400 metres respectively.

"Would a stable like this genuinely aim for let's say a Caulfield Cup [this far out]?" Accardi asked colleague Ralph Horowitz.

"I think yes, but there's one pretty big race in John Hawkes' CV he's yet to win. The Melbourne Cup," Horowitz replied.

"Could he win a Melbourne Cup, this horse?"

Accardi responded: "Ralphy, he's that good."

"Not many horses have ever done this but he's good enough to win a Caulfield Cup, a Cox Plate and a Melbourne Cup all in the same year. This horse is serious," he said.

"I'd like to back it now [in the Caulfield Cup] and take a risk."

Bookmakers have already slashed Master Of Wine's odds for the Cups in the wake of Saturday's victory.

The TAB have the five-year-old listed an equal Caulfield Cup favourite at $15 and an equal Melbourne Cup favourite at $18. Sportsbet are still offering $31 and $26 respectively, in from $41 and $51 before Saturday.

"I doubt there's very few horses in the world that could beat this in a Melbourne Cup and I'm very confident to say that," Accardi said.

"I'm not going to say superstar in the sense that it's a different story if you get a superstar mile race, but once you start to get to 2000 and beyond, super stayer.

"We've got a phenomenal horse here who, all things being equal, if the Hawkes camp keep this horse together, you [are] going to go to the counter and collect money."

Co-trainer Michael Hawkes said post-race that the stable was aiming at the Cups with the gelding.

"This horse's best attribute is he's got the biggest turn of foot and you just saw that," Hawkes said.

"As the races get longer it's going to be pretty exciting.

"Last time we thought he was a Cups horse and he just fell short because of immaturity.

"He will definitely head towards that in the spring. We wanted to give him a light autumn but who knows where he might take us.

"The sky is the limit for this horse."

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing/i-d-like-to-back-it-now-analyst-declares-cups-star-20200224-p543q4.html





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kavg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 11:24am
I was impressed by his form in spring and thought he'd be a definite player this coming spring. But didn't think he'd be winning the way he did over 1400m first up. Definite 'local' chance. Sire is probably the best bred Monsun ever and was a pretty good racehorse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 2:00pm
It was one of the best performances this year, but I think the Parramtta Cup form is just as strong.

You could see before the turn Berry was just hanging on and steering, the horse did all of the effort himself.

He will be stepping up in grade but I can see him going through the grades like Maluckyday.

Horses like Mustajeer, Eastender, Miss Siska, Kings Will Dream, Shared Ambition, Il Paradiso, Vow And Declare and a few others are high grade, so even though he won well lets see how he backs that up.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foxseal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2020 at 4:05pm
I missed this race, but appears he won well again.

Where to next for him?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2020 at 4:29pm
Scary too as jock said he didn't handle the wet and still brained them. Freak this horse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foxseal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2020 at 5:42pm
Sounds like you were highly impressed TJM. I’ll defo have to try catch a replay.

Freakish enough to do the Tancred & QE double?   Noticed he’s now 7/2 fav on the Tab for the Tancred with Avilius next at 5/1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 7:29am
"He may back up next week in the Ranvet. We will see how we go," Hawkes said.

"We are leaving every option open, there isn't an option not on the table. How far we get is up to him, but do we go the extra distance or keep him to 2000m?

"He was always going to have a light autumn, but there is a Queen Elizabeth around the corner for $4 million. He is a progressive horse and we don't like to get too far ahead of ourselves, but he is pretty exciting."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2020 at 4:11pm
What did we make of this fellows run on Saturday?

Not far behind Danon Premium, and beat home the two top kiwis.

I thought it was a cracking run for his first time in that class, and if the internationals do not show up, he can win the Cox Plate off that run.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rohanb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 8:17am
Watch it closely and the jock wasn't appearing to ride to win for fear of impacting the handicap.
That was my observation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 11:57am
Originally posted by rohanb rohanb wrote:

Watch it closely and the jock wasn't appearing to ride to win for fear of impacting the handicap.
That was my observation.

I am as cynical as the next person but are they really going to sacrifice $1.1m for potentially harder races down the line ?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 12:01pm
He was beaten 5L. What do you want him to do - shoot the first three at the 50m mark?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rohanb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 1:41pm
Just my observation but I believe he moved well to gain a good lane at entry to the straight then surged and made a decision at the 200m judging that he wouldnt pick the winner up to take it easy to the line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 6:14pm
$11 for the Caulfield Cup at most places.

Currently 31st in the OoE... how is he getting in?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foxseal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 7:29pm
Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

$11 for the Caulfield Cup at most places.

Currently 31st in the OoE... how is he getting in?
I guess connections are hoping to win one of the remaining ballot free races below:

Turnbull Stakes 
Caulfield Stakes 
Herbert Power Handicap 
Coongy Handicap 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 7:36pm
Always wary of this stable in this race ever since Railings huge win some time back, big money was won that day and this horse at 11/1 is well in the market for a horse on the cusp, respect imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 8:22pm
Down to the last week leading into the Melbourne Cup if you are number 33 you are just about getting a start.

The Caulfield Cup is different. These horses below 25 will not make it, unless they win one of those races, or a higher galloper is injured.

Personally I think he is about two or three lengths of his autumn performances, which to me says he is better on a wet track. I do not think he is a winning hope unless we get a slow or worse track.  
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foxseal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2020 at 9:16am
Really needs to be winning this race today to avoid the Spring campaign ambitions being derailed.

Early in this thread articles were spruiking him as good enough to do the Caulfield Cup, Cox Plate, Melbourne Cup treble.  If he doesn’t win today it’s going to be tough to even qualify for any of those races.

So on the assumption that John Hawkes will by necessity have him really tuned up, I think he’ll win today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2020 at 10:02am
Does anyone have stats on Hawkes strike rates in races from say 1000 - 1400 compared to races 2000 - 2400? To me, he is not a trainer of staying horses. Railings and a horse that won a Tancred at huge odds are the only significant wins over a trip that I can remember from the stable.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2020 at 11:13am
Toltrice won the triple crown in Vic. he only had his liscence for 5 mins. Runyon , Perth cup, the big O, don't have stats but sprint and stay made no difference to his ability to train rhino.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2020 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by Rhino Rhino wrote:

Does anyone have stats on Hawkes strike rates in races from say 1000 - 1400 compared to races 2000 - 2400? To me, he is not a trainer of staying horses. Railings and a horse that won a Tancred at huge odds are the only significant wins over a trip that I can remember from the stable.

Group & listed races since September 2015

Race Distance Bets Win W% WPOT
800 to 999 32 8 25 -42.8
1000 to 1199 729 144 19 -13.6
1200 to 1399 1037 172 16 -19.1
1400 to 1599 691 103 14 -2.3
1600 to 1799 222 31 13 2.2
1800 to 1999 65 7 10 2
2000 to 2199 89 14 15 -38.9
2200 to 2399 8 1 12 25
2400 to 2599 28 5 17 -44.6
2600 to 2799 1 0 0 -100
2800 to 2999 1 0 0 -100
Total 2903 485 16.7 -12.7

Fair to say, the staying trips aren't their brand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2020 at 8:59pm
His record can not be any worse than Kris Lees. That guy could get Makybe Diva to run last at  Narrandera picnics race.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2020 at 11:13pm
Really ?

I reckon Kris Lee's has improved out of site the last few years.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

$11 for the Caulfield Cup at most places.

Currently 31st in the OoE... how is he getting in?
Attrition. That’s how.

According to Andrew Bensley, he’s safely in the field (16th) with the Coongy to come.

So.... question asked, and answered. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 12:50pm
What do we make of his effort yesterday?

Hard to imagine he would be pressing on to the Melb Cup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 1:12pm
I would have preferred to see him settle midfield.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 1:16pm
Apart from the fact I think he's been hugely over rated, Wayne did say they'd treated him for a bruised hoof during the week and only reported it to stewards because "it was a Caulfield Cup". Normally we wouldn't Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 3:40pm
Running a horse outside their normal racing pattern rarely works. I think it can work if the horse has a very light weight & is too offset a bad barrier or track condition but 99/100 i prefer to see them stick to their natural pattern no matter what.

Vow & Declare in last years Melbourne Cup was one of the very few exceptions but had an outside barrier and a very light weight. So You Think in the first of his Cox Plates was another case, a 3yo with a very light weight. Most times you can throw your tickets in the bin before the race is over.

Whoever came up with the idea to have Master of Wine on the pace yesterday from an ideal barrier is guilty of stupidity imho. Apparently Craig Williams was riding to instructions??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 3:45pm
Not according to fat fonc.  But then again...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2020 at 5:05pm
Caulfield Cup = fail
Cox Plate = fail

He’s definately a talented horse but has been massively over rated.  Turn him out & start planning a Sydney autumn campaign.
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