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John McNair.

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JudgeHolden View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 4:25pm
Oh yes it was Djebel.
 
And the R&S website is indeed useful. Of the 8 other races on the card last year, 4 were run faster yesterday and 4 were run faster last year. There is no evidence to suggest last years track was any quicker than yesterday's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quezacotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Why does Buffering deserve to win a group 1 race ?

He certainly deserves to earn his connections plenty of money but I am not convinced he deserves a group 1.

Is he as good around a bend as he is up the straight. He does not look to have too many options at group 1 level.


Not all Group1 races are created equally Djebel...as i'm sure you are aware of, however, they are still penciled up in the record books as G1's..

*eg: NZ, Singapore & Hong Kong G1's...by comparison not G1 quality here, and probably rate as G3 in Europe, but the facts are they are G1's,.. and G1's that are well within Bufferings talents.

Djebel the Newmarket handicap was won by Hay List yesterday ..would you agree it took a geniune G1 rated performance to win it..?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 4:43pm
Have a look at the ground chopping up before they reach the course proper.

http://bigpondvideo.com/Horse_Racing/429259


http://bigpondvideo.com/Horse_Racing/429208

http://bigpondvideo.com/Horse_Racing/429199

They are clearly cutting into that ground prior to the course proper.

In my considered opinion it was not a good track.






reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by Quezacotl Quezacotl wrote:


Djebel the Newmarket handicap was won by Hay List yesterday ..would you agree it took a geniune G1 rated performance to win it..?


Yes.




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 5:02pm
So we should ignore official track penetrometer ratings, and instead rely on Djebel's video analysis? Give it away son.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 5:05pm
You can do what you like. I have provided the evidence to suggest the track was not good.

Did you bother looking at the videos ?

Does the penetrometer check the whole course every square inch of it ?

Do you know where they check ?






reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by Quezacotl Quezacotl wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Why does Buffering deserve to win a group 1 race ?

He certainly deserves to earn his connections plenty of money but I am not convinced he deserves a group 1.

Is he as good around a bend as he is up the straight. He does not look to have too many options at group 1 level.


Not all Group1 races are created equally Djebel...as i'm sure you are aware of, however, they are still penciled up in the record books as G1's..

*eg: NZ, Singapore & Hong Kong G1's...by comparison not G1 quality here, and probably rate as G3 in Europe, but the facts are they are G1's,.. and G1's that are well within Bufferings talents.

Djebel the Newmarket handicap was won by Hay List yesterday ..would you agree it took a geniune G1 rated performance to win it..?
LOLLOLLOL   Back to the form books .........how have G3 stayers faired here in Melb Cup - most have been embarassed, with a few like Media Puzzle, Crime Scene etc running good races.
 
How have "our" G1 star sprinters faired in HK and their locals?
 
How did Americain go in HK? What about Jimmy Choux?
 
HK has very strong racing......to compare Singapore to HK suggest you watch more Bananas in Pyjamas than horse racing  Tongue
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 5:16pm
Alright I'll bite. You have provided no evidence the track wasn't good, only an opinion. You opinion flies not only in the face of the official rating, but also when compared to the results from the same program the previous year.  But by all means, keep punching.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blind Faith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by Blind Faith Blind Faith wrote:

One rating and it looks very wrong. Can you provide a link please Judge?

The handicapper doesn't agree. Anyway if ratings were the only indicator or results and performance either we'd all be millionaires or there 'd be no betting.  BC's 2011 win was more impressive.
 
Go to the Racing and Sports website and look under "results". I'm sure you'll find your way. In the meantime ask yourself this: Coulld you imagine a fully extended BC taking 1:08.72 to get down the Flemington straight six on a good track?

No but neither could I imagine her running 1400m in 1:25:14. They would have run faster had she been there no doubt.

Hay List  ran 10.39 10.49 10.60 (31.48) for half that race, Buffering was very similar. That is spectacular in anyone's money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Alright I'll bite. You have provided no evidence the track wasn't good, only an opinion. You opinion flies not only in the face of the official rating, but also when compared to the results from the same program the previous year.  But by all means, keep punching.


Stop carrying on like a big girls blouse.

Have you looked at the VIDEOS ?

What do you see when you watch those VIDEOS.

Open your fricken eyes.

It is only when they get on the course proper does it look like a good track, The first part of those 3 straight track races they are clearly kicking up the ground.

When African Pulse beat Karuta Queen down the straight last spring they also said it was a good track. Anybody who watches the video can see it was not.




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 5:35pm
YAAAAWNNNN you blokes.
BF, I said fully extended, so enough with the sophistry.
 
There is nothing I could further add in terms of facts and figures to dispel your ridiculous arguments, so let me just say this:
 
In last year's Newmarket, we saw BC's peak performance. This was a gallop that rating analysts such as Dominic Beirne and Michael McHugh record as the best in their databases, of all horses. Timeform rate it as the best gallop in this country since at least Kingston Town and IHF rate as the best ever by a mare.
 
If you think that win yesterday by HL comes close, you really need to find another sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scamanda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 5:45pm
From RISA.
Track ratings for the first 4 races were officially a dead 4. Race 4 was run at 1.55pm AEDST.
Track ratings for races 5 to 9 were Good 3. Race 5 was run at 2.35 pm.

So in 40 mins the track improved from a dead 4 to a good 3.

The track did look to chop up a bit when they reached the course proper.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blind Faith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

YAAAAWNNNN you blokes.
BF, I said fully extended, so enough with the sophistry.
 
There is nothing I could further add in terms of facts and figures to dispel your ridiculous arguments, so let me just say this:
 
In last year's Newmarket, we saw BC's peak performance. This was a gallop that rating analysts such as Dominic Beirne and Michael McHugh record as the best in their databases, of all horses. Timeform rate it as the best gallop in this country since at least Kingston Town and IHF rate as the best ever by a mare.
 
If you think that win yesterday by HL comes close, you really need to find another sport.

Don't see ANYONE arguing that at all. You're either barking up the wrong tree or searching for a red herring. A couple of people think Hay List might have been able to beat BC with the weight turnaround, based on what they saw in the Lightning. If you dismiss that as a possibility I'd say you're in for a long career as a losing punter, assuming you bet of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 6:56pm
BF,
 
What weight turn around are you talking about? Djebel posted that yesteday's race put HL "very close to the great mare". Rubbish I say. And neither you nor Djebel has given the slightest evidence to the contrary. But then I'm still waiting to hear from you about Rocket Man's bleeding attack.
 
Stick to picking on North Queensland yokels.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 7:02pm
Some people hope that Hay List dodges the great mare and gets his own opportunity to build a picket fence.

I hope they stalk the great mare.

Where ever Peter Moody decides to run her in her prep run for England Hay List should turn up.

He can win the TJ Smith and the All Aged and take her on where ever that maybe. She is not due to run until well after those two events.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 7:09pm
I actually agree with that, Djebel, from a racing point of view. He is the only horse who makes her work, as Moody says. Provided they don't risk their horse. He is a gelding, and will be running around long after she is gone. I don't think they'll ever meet again, however
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 7:12pm

 can someone tell me what the last two dozen posts have to do with John McNair?

 put them over in the Newmarket thread...

 
Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 7:39pm
Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 7:41pm

 now that has something to do with J McNair
Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blind Faith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

BF,
 
What weight turn around are you talking about? Djebel posted that yesteday's race put HL "very close to the great mare". Rubbish I say. And neither you nor Djebel has given the slightest evidence to the contrary. But then I'm still waiting to hear from you about Rocket Man's bleeding attack.
 
Stick to picking on North Queensland yokels.


Ask Djebel what he meant. I've already explained what my comments were about. Had BC been in Saturday's race she would have been giving Hay List 3.0kgs instead of receiving the usual 2kgs.  Based on the Lightning in all likelihood she would have tasted her first defeat but we'll never know.

Wrt Rocket Man either your memory or observation skills need some work.

Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 2:10pm
There were reports that RM had blood and mucus in his nostrils and throat. That doesn't mean he bled tho.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 7:57pm
"There were reports that RM had blood and mucus in his nostrils and throat. That doesn't mean he bled tho."

So can you give me some links to THAT, BF?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 8:01pm
When John McNair says Hay List has never been at his best when the two great horses have met, Why do 99% of people dismiss this as nonsense ?






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 8:03pm
...and you seem to be suggesting that if you load BC with enough weight HL will eventually beat her. Thanks for that, Brainiac.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

...and you seem to be suggesting that if you load BC with enough weight HL will eventually beat her. Thanks for that, Brainiac.


Who me ?

I do not want any championship decided by weight.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subastral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

When John McNair says Hay List has never been at his best when the two great horses have met, Why do 99% of people dismiss this as nonsense ?


 
In every sport, when you lose, you accept the loss, and try again. You don't make excuses. Hearing McNair say he has never been fit is the same as a losing coach complaining about umpires as the reason they lost. It just doesn't win you any fans. All he has to say is "we are getting closer, we will live to fight another day, and one day we might just get her". Then you wouldn't have 10 pages of posts of people bagging him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racinglover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 8:18pm
He didn't even say it about the lightning i didn't think, i thought after that he said we can't beat her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 8:23pm
No Djebel. I posted while your last post was going through. That was directeed to BF. Though your previous post was a bit cheeky. Not even I'm going to bite on that.  
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by racinglover racinglover wrote:

He didn't even say it about the lightning i didn't think, i thought after that he said we can't beat her.

 he did say that...and this morning he virtually said if they can't beat her here then why travel to Ascot to lose again...

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blind Faith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

"There were reports that RM had blood and mucus in his nostrils and throat. That doesn't mean he bled tho."

So can you give me some links to THAT, BF?


Someone who can't use a search function calling another a "brainiac"? I'm deeply wounded LOL. I don't know how you operate on public forums but I'm not given to making things up to suit. Enjoy your search we'll see you back here in a few days.

With regard to your comment about loading up BC - do you understand what handicap races are about? I doubt it. Under the Vic G1 guidlines she was actually well in with 61.5 compared to her rating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blind Faith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

...and you seem to be suggesting that if you load BC with enough weight HL will eventually beat her. Thanks for that, Brainiac.


Who me ?

I do not want any championship decided by weight.

Except if it's WFA?
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