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Jockey Riding Weight |
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 12:16am |
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The Rosehill stewards report is littered with jockey who rode overweight today.
James McDonald rose one 1kg over that was given 54kg, and Bowman rode one 0.5kg over that was given 55.5kg. That was the tip of the iceberg. Couple of questions: a few of these jocks had good winters? Why don't we hear about it when jockeys are permitted to ride overweight? I only read about it after.
Edited by Gay3 - 16 Jun 2020 at 1:43pm |
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Sunline...simply supreme
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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 4919 |
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Think the horse is weighted at its next run based on the weight carried as well,again jock doesn't care about that,still up to connections to leave jock on i think.
Fairly certain these over weights are posted and announced |
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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I'm sure they are mc41, but I am active on the internet and watching on tv, talking with multiple people online, and I rarely if ever hear about it. They aren't doing a good job of letting us know.
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Sunline...simply supreme
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Discohips23
Champion Joined: 01 Mar 2018 Status: Offline Points: 963 |
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I was lucky to have a runner at Flemington one Saturday a few years back. Our horse wasn't in well at the weights anyway without a Steward approaching our trainer less than 20mins out from the race to tell us that C.Symons would be riding 1/2kg over. I bet if it was a top metro trainer and not a bush trainer, he/she would have been given more time to arrange an available jock.
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Heavy10
Champion Joined: 24 May 2015 Status: Offline Points: 2711 |
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I've always thought that .5kg would make stuff all difference to a result. A 500kg+ animal.. That's like a 100kg person carrying and extra 100grams...maybe I'm completely wrong, wouldn't be first time
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anabel
Champion Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Location: VIC Status: Offline Points: 1521 |
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Lately I’ve seen heaps of notifications about apprentices not claiming their full claim.. ie “**** will claim 1kg of his 3kg claim” which is usually only reported just before the race.
Not sure why they are allowed to take the ride if it’s nowhere near their weight. |
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Discohips23
Champion Joined: 01 Mar 2018 Status: Offline Points: 963 |
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The law of physics mean it would make a difference. |
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17265 |
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Just goes to show how in this industry is trapped in the dark ages.
I wish Victoria would introduce mandatory trials before racing |
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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It shows a lack of professionalism on the riders’ part. Some are repeat offenders and it’s simply not good enough.
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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Why? They have jump outs that will all be filmed and distributed with names from October? Should owners stump up $200+ for trials to please whom exactly? |
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17265 |
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Still have to go digging at an individual track to see if you can find the horse. Trials records make it easier, just type it in and it comes up. Plus the fact, you get REAL jockeys riding at them. |
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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Jump outs are a great teaching tool, no need to ruin it with overpriced trials. Real jockeys? You still have no idea how heavy their saddle is. |
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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Punters. The lifeblood of the industry. The forgotten hero of the V'Landys revolution. Whose money is he spending? I'm an owner and a punter, and I insist on trials. It's a joke anywhere in Australia doesn't require official trials.
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Sunline...simply supreme
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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Backing unraced horses is a mug’s game.
Just have jump outs that are easily accessible through racing.com if people are that desperate, but there are private jump outs held daily that punters will never see. Should only big trainers benefit from private jump outs on their properties? All the unraced horses need is a barrier certificate, so whether you see a superstar trial or a quiet trial with plenty of lead, all the horse needs to do is load and jump. Slugging owners with more costs via trials will do nothing positive. Trainers need to be able to educate their horses under race conditions without their owners being slugged a fortune. |
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Online Points: 21703 |
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Barrier certificates should be granted during morning trackwork, as they only go a short distance e.g. 2 or 3 furlongs stewards don't get a line on full tractability, then they go to official barrier trials under race conditions, been doing it it Sydney for 62 years to my knowledge, so what is wrong that, it's all part of the game of education, if Sydney can do it , why can't Melbourne? and video's up on their Own website , not racing.com.
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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Trials costing triple if not more than jump outs is what’s wrong with it. If people want trials the authorities should subsidise the trial costs to bring them in line with jump out costs. Once again, do you see private jump outs at Lindsey Park, Godolphin etc? It’s an educational tool as it’s often the only look the horses get at grass. And no $300 is not an appropriate amount for owners to pay for an educational track gallop.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Online Points: 21703 |
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Official 2 yo trials, licensed jockeys are paid $80, who pays what in unofficial jump outs?Godolphin can do whatever they like in Melb.regarding non trailing 2yo with jump outs, but they can't get away with it in Sydney, the Must trial like every other owner of 2 yo's, why would Lindsey Park charge extra for jump outs on their own track, are they all ridden by licensed persons? What is the clarification of barrier trials and jump outs for 2yo ? are they both official? if 2yo trials (official) were held at Caulfield, Fleming, or Sand, or any other track of quality surely the clubs could pay jockeys fees and a float rebate, this non offical trial form not in the papers has been a contentious debate for decades, over to you Llingi. |
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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Jockeys may be paid $80 but insurance and club take the rest - trialling is minimum $200 in NSW. Victorian jump outs are about $30? Probably depends on the club same as trial fees.
I’m saying is you’ll never have 100% knowledge of first starters’ abilities. People hear “oh it won a jump out by panels” and have attack of the “I’d have backed it if I’d known that” but as in trials it’s not an assurance of winning a race. Maybe have a subsidised mandatory trial for every horse before its first career start and let the jump outs be - keep the price, allow track riders but make a combined data base of horses, videos and have numbered saddle cloths? Jump outs are not just used for fitness but often for education purposes and often the track rider is still continuing educating the horse - should a jockey be substituted even if they don’t know the horse or what the trainer is trying to teach it just to please punters? As for big establishments, for years Crown Lodge skirted the public trials - you never knew if their horse was ready to win or foal first up unless you attended the meeting. And I’d say a lot of the massive trainers have their own private trials these days also keeping the punter in the dark. |
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Online Points: 21703 |
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Who cares what Crown Lodge done years ago, the fact is if they wanted to race their babies first up in nsw they had to trial first whether you were there or not , as for jump outs it's understandable why the do, to avoid a trial fee , use heavy saddle lol, ( went out with straw hats) its shrouded in some sought of secrecy, heavy shoes, unlicensed personnel? are they ridden by qualified jocks? if the club want transperarency they should barrier trial officially like the older horses do and clear the air completely, if your babies educated the right way you can still hide him if that's your want, but prizemoney today is very tempting to do the right thing by your baby but still keep him on the bit.
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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And again you miss the point entirely. Who cares re Crown Lodge? It’s an example of how any resuming horse does not have to trial and can be anywhere in its fitness. Any difference to 2yo trials?
Also you cannot trial an unregistered horse - so if you as a trainer have a young horse yet unsold and you want to get a few owners into it by having it at jump out stage and performing well - tough titties. I’m all for punters and transparency but a trainer needs to be able to educate their horse as best he can and at the lowest amount of cost to the owners. We’re not HK, we don’t have trackwork records updated daily. Worst case the punter can just not bet in a race full of first starters because it’s a lottery and no amount of trials will make it as good a betting proposition as races with exposed form. As for going to the races, have a look at how many Victorian horses get balloted at their future starts if their first couple weren’t up to scratch. Punters needs to be looked after but not at more expense to owners. Punters have more information than they have ever before and I’m not thinking it’s necessarily helping them. |
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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I bet you any sensible punter would prefer enforcement of anti team-riding rules, no surprise tactic changes, greater scrutiny of form reversals, reduction of trainers having big numbers in one race, and vet records before trials. Those issues affect so many more races than a handful of first starters whose jump outs racing.com will probably show you in their preview show anyway.
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Discohips23
Champion Joined: 01 Mar 2018 Status: Offline Points: 963 |
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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And not a moment too soon.
Racing NSW act to give punters information regarding overweight jockeysClinton Payne 17 Comments Racing NSW CEO Peter V’landys has taken action to ensure punters are provided with information in form guides showing approved overweight riders. In NSW the policy is that owners and trainers can utilise a jockey to ride their horse up to 1kg above the allocated weight which is declared on the day of acceptances and has been information provided on the Racing NSW website and their social media handles. However, V’landys was aware that most punters were not receiving the information and after discussions with Racing Australia, the industry’s form and results provider, weight adjustment information will now show in form guides. “As a sport we need to ensure this information is getting out to our customers the punters,” V’landys said. “From now on when a jockey is riding overweight all form services will have the opportunity to pick up the information from Racing Australia.” Racing Australia has introduced a new weight column in their form called “probable weight” which will show what weight a horse will carry after an apprentice’s claim or an approved overweight jockey. |
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Sunline...simply supreme
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51824 |
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A weighty can of worms - jockeys eat their own!Ben Dorries Lightweight jockey Dean Yendall's call not to raise the minimum weight once racing gets through the COVID-19 pandemic situation has not gone down well with many of his fellow Victorian riders. The minimum was raised earlier this year from 54kg to 56kg for day meetings and from 55kg to 56kg for night meetings to help take the pressure off jockeys. Yendall, who has carved out much success in taking big races rides down in the weights, has spoken out against any potential rise in the minimum weights, telling Racing.com a raise in the minimum would make it harder for natural lightweights. However plenty of his fellow jockeys have taken him to task on social media - and they haven't missed him! The tweets came thick and fast. "Should get rides based on your ability Baked Bean! Not because of what weight you are," Group I winning hoop Ben Melham tweeted. Former Victorian hoop Andrew Mallyon, now riding with success in Queensland, weighed in. "This is such a one sided article raising the weights benefits the majority of the riding group given the current workload for riders. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to see past their own agenda," Mallyon tweeted. Recently minted Group I winning hoop Damien Thornton also threw his two bobs worth in. "I dont see the jockeys in Sydney complaining about the weight scale. The minimum up there is 52kgs at a metro level. Put simply, if you cant make the weight dont ride it. And if you want a day off because youre over worked take it." Damian Lane tweeted succinctly in response to Yendall's remarks on racing.com : "Must be gospel then." There were plenty of jockeys who rode light in the recent Group I Stradbroke at Eagle Farm and Brisbane jockey Ryan Wiggins had this to say about the minimum weight debate: "Seen a few jockeys last week who rode in the Stradbroke that would pass as zombies! Not safe for the game !" Victorian hoop Dylan Dunn, the son of Group I winning hoop Dwayne Dunn, chimed in. "The reality is if weights are raised the only reason a lightweight rider would suffer is because it opens up the opportunity for owners to put a rider of choice on rather then those who make the weight. Which you would imagine could increase the quality of riders in the sport," Dunn tweeted. However Mick Dee had a different take, tweeting: "We are jockeys, which means we are meant to be light, it goes hand in hand with the job. If you want the weights raised because you cant ride the weight range then maybe get a new job." Jamie Mott wasn't going to let that go through to the 'keeper, tweeting in reply to Dee: 'What (wait) till you hit puberty might see it a little different then." Former Victorian jockey Stephanie Thornton, who has enjoyed a golden run since moving to Queensland, got involved in the Twitter debate. "And there are plenty of stories where talented riders are lost due to a lack of opportunities. Now if one of those opportunities comes from the ability to ride light, why shouldnt those riders be able to benefit from the weight scale?" she tweeted. One thing is for sure is that the jockeys who don't want the minimum weights raised are vocal in their opposition against it. There have been some discussions involving several parties about potentially raising the minimum weight from 54kg to 55kg and it will be interesting to see where that goes given the strong feelings around the topic. |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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Raise it to 16 stone, and NRL players can ride them, these pampered arzeholes need to pull their heads in.
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VOYAGER
Champion Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 18699 |
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As long as the top weights are increased accordingly then what is the problem?
The days of the 49 kilo lightweights should be long gone. How long has it been since a horse carried 44 kilos in a handicap? I would say at least forty years, but this used to happen every season. |
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Batman
Champion Joined: 22 Jan 2018 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 2261 |
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As you munch on your Maccas and drink a large coke. As always the stupid minority keep pushing their stupid ideas.
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Gambling has brought our family closer together. We had to move to a smaller house.
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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It has already gone up over a stone in recent times, where does it end ?
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51824 |
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I quite agree max! The rises are happening regularly these days & the old adage "give an inch etc."rings very true.
The small people do exist, they're simply not interested in race riding so it needs to be made more attractive to them otherwise bottom weights will soon be 60kgs the rate we're going |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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Especially given the number of female riders, there is a large pool of young women around 8 stone. It would seem the push to raise it, would be led by the males.
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