Go to Villagebet.com.au for free horse racing tips - Click here now
Forum Home Forum Home > Horse Racing - Public Forums > Racing Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Japanese Horses
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Thoroughbred Village Home Page. For village news, follow @TBVillage on Twitter. For horseracing tips, follow @Villagebet on Twitter. To contact the Mayor by email: Click Here.


Japanese Horses

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
Pazman View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11753
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Japanese Horses
    Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 9:22pm
How good was Hana's Goal win today? Hope she did not have the same breakfast as Deep Impact in the Arc, we'll know in two weeks.

Delta Blues, Pop Rock and now Hana's Goal. They're not even at the pointy end of ability in their own country.

Are horses very expensive in Japan to buy or are there any significant barriers?

Why the current affair with Euro imports when there is so much quality in the land of the rising sun?
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
JudgeHolden View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 11419
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 9:32pm
20 years ago I watched Better Loosen Up win a Japan Cup. A year later Naturalism went within a whisker of doing the same. 

They've gone straight past us.
Back to Top
MelbourneRacing View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 09 May 2012
Location: Qld
Status: Offline
Points: 2050
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MelbourneRacing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 9:39pm
Disregarding today's winner, I think Australians generally have their heads in the sand when it comes to assessing the quality of our stayers.

They Sydney Cup is the second biggest 3200m race in the country and it was full of chaff bandits, barring the winner.

Who knows if The Offer will even take the next step.

If the best European two-miler came to Australia and adapted to the conditions well it would win a Melbourne Cup by panels.

Our staying ranks are so embarrassing and it all comes down to the fact that owners want a reasonably quick return on their investment and are not throwing cash on staying progeny at yearling sales.

The quality of the Derby and Oaks races around Australia are laughable. I don't have a problem with any of this, as I wouldn't want to spend heaps of money on a horse, only for it to be a slow one three years later.
Back to Top
Bright Day View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 17 Apr 2014
Location: Vic
Status: Offline
Points: 2129
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bright Day Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 10:08pm
Japanese horses are 10 lengths better than anoy other horses in the whole wild world.

Cheers.

That is all.
Back to Top
songline View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1587
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote songline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 10:14pm
correct me if I'm wrong but I think Japanese races start timing about 50m after the start so I wouldn't be using race times as a comparison
Back to Top
JudgeHolden View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 11419
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by MelbourneRacing MelbourneRacing wrote:

Disregarding today's winner, I think Australians generally have their heads in the sand when it comes to assessing the quality of our stayers.

They Sydney Cup is the second biggest 3200m race in the country and it was full of chaff bandits, barring the winner.

Who knows if The Offer will even take the next step.

If the best European two-miler came to Australia and adapted to the conditions well it would win a Melbourne Cup by panels.

Our staying ranks are so embarrassing and it all comes down to the fact that owners want a reasonably quick return on their investment and are not throwing cash on staying progeny at yearling sales.

The quality of the Derby and Oaks races around Australia are laughable. I don't have a problem with any of this, as I wouldn't want to spend heaps of money on a horse, only for it to be a slow one three years later.

I can't agree on that. We know our stayers are rubbish. Heck, everyone does. The question is: are the rest of our horses much better? We produce some top class sprinters (and Lankan Rupee is world class), but beyond that, the internationals and Kiwis can fight it out.

I reckon our 2yos would stomp those overseas juveniles though...woohooo.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 42482
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

20 years ago I watched Better Loosen Up win a Japan Cup. A year later Naturalism went within a whisker of doing the same. 

They've gone straight past us.
 
There are two main reason they have left us for dead.
 
1 They do not geld their best horses, Their best horse whether male or female retire to stud and keep improving the general stock in that country. Plus of course they import the best racehorses on the planet to stand in that country.
 
2. Superior training facilities and trainers.
 
 




reductio ad absurdum



Back to Top
JudgeHolden View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 11419
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 10:26pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

20 years ago I watched Better Loosen Up win a Japan Cup. A year later Naturalism went within a whisker of doing the same. 

They've gone straight past us.
 
There are two main reason they have left us for dead.
 
1 They do not geld their best horses, Their best horse whether male or female retire to stud and keep improving the general stock in that country. Plus of course they import the best racehorses on the planet to stand in that country.
 
2. Superior training facilities and trainers.
 
 

3. They don't fork out squillions for 2yo races.
Back to Top
Dr E View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 28376
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 10:27pm
Is that an urban myth? ... nice way of saying they are not really faster horses!

I've hear this sort of thing suggested before, if it's true, why would they do it anyway?
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
Back to Top
LR80 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 9183
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LR80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 10:34pm
Imagine Just a Way competed in the QE Stakes, that would be scary sight the likes of which we've never seen before at Randwick, perhaps except for Black Caviar in the TJ of 2011.
Back to Top
jacko1 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1526
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacko1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by Pazman Pazman wrote:



Why the current affair with Euro imports when there is so much quality in the land of the rising sun?

The Europeans are very fashionable at the moment, as soon as an Aussie goes over and brings a Jap back and wins everyone will start doing it.

I would be interested what their stake money is like over there. Is the QE going to attract them? 
Back to Top
JudgeHolden View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 11419
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by Pazman Pazman wrote:

How good was Hana's Goal win today? Hope she did not have the same breakfast as Deep Impact in the Arc, we'll know in two weeks.

Delta Blues, Pop Rock and now Hana's Goal. They're not even at the pointy end of ability in their own country.

Are horses very expensive in Japan to buy or are there any significant barriers?

Why the current affair with Euro imports when there is so much quality in the land of the rising sun?

They cost more.
Back to Top
LR80 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 9183
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LR80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 10:59pm
What would the Deep Impact's stud fee be these days?

Galileo is thought to be around the $200k USD by an article published a year ago.
Back to Top
JudgeHolden View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 11419
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 11:01pm
And one other thing; why do all these Japanese horses have English names?
Back to Top
Sneck View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Location: Payout Queue
Status: Offline
Points: 7557
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 11:12pm
They have more guts to their racing.

Fast tracks, fast tempos.




Back to Top
Sneck View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Location: Payout Queue
Status: Offline
Points: 7557
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

And one other thing; why do all these Japanese horses have English names?
Translations.
Back to Top
Group 1 Selections View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 13740
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Group 1 Selections Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

They have more guts to their racing.

Fast tracks, fast tempos.








Sneck hit the nail on the head I feel. They don't have easy stallion making races over 1400m like All Too Hard cleaned up off dawdling tempos


Their horses are bred faster and tougher because their races are run at genuine tempos on big tracks every time. Limited Group 1's so the best horses can't hide from each other. I think we willbsee a few more in aus this year.
Back to Top
JudgeHolden View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 11419
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

And one other thing; why do all these Japanese horses have English names?
Translations.

Not true. Watch those old Deep Impact races with the Japanese caller. Deep  Impact-ah. And speaking of the champ, breathtaking: 

Back to Top
Pazman View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11753
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 11:27pm
Originally posted by Group 1 Selections Group 1 Selections wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

They have more guts to their racing.

Fast tracks, fast tempos.








Sneck hit the nail on the head I feel. They don't have easy stallion making races over 1400m like All Too Hard cleaned up off dawdling tempos


Their horses are bred faster and tougher because their races are run at genuine tempos on big tracks every time. Limited Group 1's so the best horses can't hide from each other. I think we willbsee a few more in aus this year.


They also have a limited number of boxes and a thorough ratings system. So quality gets filtered out. 80% horses bred are from the very top of Jspan, Hokkaido. I go there every 3rd year to ski amd there are alot of studs and they have undercoverec training facilities for te colder months. It's a very fertile area famous for fresh produce.
Back to Top
Keefy View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 513
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keefy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by Pazman Pazman wrote:

Originally posted by Group 1 Selections Group 1 Selections wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

They have more guts to their racing.

Fast tracks, fast tempos.








Sneck hit the nail on the head I feel. They don't have easy stallion making races over 1400m like All Too Hard cleaned up off dawdling tempos


Their horses are bred faster and tougher because their races are run at genuine tempos on big tracks every time. Limited Group 1's so the best horses can't hide from each other. I think we willbsee a few more in aus this year.


They also have a limited number of boxes and a thorough ratings system. So quality gets filtered out. 80% horses bred are from the very top of Jspan, Hokkaido. I go there every 3rd year to ski amd there are alot of studs and they have undercoverec training facilities for te colder months. It's a very fertile area famous for fresh produce.


Have you ever watched iron chef . It's all about quality.. And capes and gloves
Back to Top
jacko1 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1526
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacko1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2014 at 12:01am
People often forget Makybe Diva went over there and got hammered. There is no doubt their stayers would make a mockery of the Melbourne Cup if they came back.
Back to Top
Keefy View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 513
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keefy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2014 at 12:05am
Originally posted by jacko1 jacko1 wrote:

People often forget Makybe Diva went over there and got hammered. There is no doubt their stayers would make a mockery of the Melbourne Cup if they came back.


Tracks are firm there. Not to her liking
Back to Top
oldmate View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 993
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldmate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2014 at 12:48am
Japan still has its slow horses to. Compare his travel partners margins from there to here.

http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/HorseAllForm.aspx?HorseCode=MzAwNDQyMTU3Ng%3d%3d&src=horseform&raceEntry=MjY5ODY0MzUxMTI%3d
Back to Top
oldmate View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 993
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldmate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2014 at 12:55am
What about the kid that is apprenticed to Les Bridge that rode the travelling partner in his races here. It looks like his riding career is going really good.


http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/JockeyLastRuns.aspx?jockeycode=MjM3ODExMjk4NA%3d%3d
Back to Top
Air Seattle View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 874
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air Seattle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2014 at 1:00am
The Japanese horses have always struggled to get decent Timeform ratings even if their form warrants it.

Todays QE11 cup in HK has Epiphaenia in it and he has been burning up the track.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 42482
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2014 at 2:24am
Originally posted by Air Seattle Air Seattle wrote:

The Japanese horses have always struggled to get decent Timeform ratings even if their form warrants it.

Todays QE11 cup in HK has Epiphaenia in it and he has been burning up the track.

He has been burning up the tracks in Japan, I think he has struggled to see the training tracks in Hong Kong ?




reductio ad absurdum



Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 42482
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2014 at 2:30am
Originally posted by Air Seattle Air Seattle wrote:

The Japanese horses have always struggled to get decent Timeform ratings even if their form warrants it.

Todays QE11 cup in HK has Epiphaenia in it and he has been burning up the track.

And re the poor timeform ratings, that is more to do with the bunched finishes of their races.

Harp Star is the latest BOOM horse in Japan, She has only been beaten once and won the Japanese 1000 Guineas in impressive fashion, but the style of the finish would not have been conducive to a high rating. I have not seen what Timeform gave her for that performance.

THis is the Racing Post 3yo ratings for 2014 so far.

123118118Kingman3cInvincible SpiritGBJohn Gosden
119——Isla Bonita3cFuji KisekiJPNHironori Kurita
117122122Toormore3cArakanGBRichard Hannon
116——Ectot3cHurricane RunFRE Lellouche
116——Mikki Isle3cDeep ImpactJPNHidetaka Otonashi
116——To The World3cKing KamehamehaJPNYasutoshi Ikee
115——Karakontie3cBernsteinFRJ E Pease
115——One And Only3cHeart's CryJPNKojiro Hashiguchi
115——Rosa Gigantea3cFuji KisekiJPNKazuo Fujisawa
115116116True Story3cManduroGBSaeed bin Suroor
115——Win Full Bloom3cSpecial WeekJPNHiroshi Miyamoto
114——Asia Express3cHenny HughesJPNTakahisa Tezuka
114——Staphanos3cDeep ImpactJPNHideaki Fujiwara
114——Xcellence3fChamps ElyseesFRF Doumen
113——Harp Star3fDeep ImpactJPNHiroyoshi Matsuda
113——Shonan Achieve3cShonan KampfJPNSakae Kunieda
113——Shonan Wadachi3cShonan KampfJPNMasahiro Otake
113——Vorda3fOrpenFRP Sogorb




reductio ad absurdum



Back to Top
Pazman View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11753
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2014 at 2:40am
Some quirky Japaneses Racing Rules ....

Trainer gets 10%, Jockey gets 5% (7% for Jumps) and wait for this stapper/groom gets 5%! - no wonder their horses look so well presented!

If your horses breaks down on a JRA track - JRA pays you compensation.

Prizemoney for non-Japaneses residents is taxable - probably why so few from here campaign over there.
Back to Top
Pazman View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11753
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2014 at 2:44am
ONLY 2256 registered owners with the JRA ... Certaintly the sport of kings over there!
Back to Top
Pazman View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11753
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2014 at 2:47am
Indoor training track in Hokkaido ... Where they can get 6 meters of snow.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.





Click here to bet with our preferred online bookmaker, BetEasy.