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Incentivise
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djebel View Drop Down
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Sounds like they are freshening him up for the Plate. 
reductio ad absurdum
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Don't think so.  Moody said he's clean winded and won't need much work coming up to the Melbourne Cup.  That is a Star Kingdom thing. They didn't need a great deal of training.  One reason some trainers had a better run with them than others.  And one of the reasons Kingston did well for TJ.  He had to ease back on his harder training as the horses legs couldn't stand it.

Incentivies has 2 lines of Biscay through Bletchingly, Canny Lad and Marscay.  He has a line of Kaoru Star through Luskin Star.  He has two lines of Noholme through Nodouble, Semipalatinsk and Paris Review and he has a Star Kingdom daughter Fairy Dream.  

I really like that double of Noholme.  Very few around with that.
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Incentivise's performance top five in the world according to ratings expert

By James Lamb 
IncentiviseIncentiviseImage: Getty
Incentivise's devastating Caulfield Cup win should see him figure in the top five in the next edition of the World's Best Racehorse rankings, according to rating's expert Daniel O'Sullivan. 

The 3.5L romp was a world-class performance in the eyes of O'Sullivan, who gave the win a rating of 109.5 - three higher than Nature Strip's Everest-winning rating.Speaking on RSN's Racing Pulse on Monday morning, O'Sullivan said Incentivise would have been highly competitive in this year's Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe (2400m), won by Torquator Tasso, based on his Caulfield Cup rating.

"109.5 puts him competitive with all of the world-class horses we are seeing at the moment, over that trip [2400m]. Adayar, Mishriff, even the horse that won the Arc recently, Torquator Tasso.

"With that level of performance, Incentivise would have fought out the finish in the Arc," O'Sullivan said.

"That performance should put him in the top five in the LONGINES World's Best Racehorse rankings."
"That performance should put him in the top five in the LONGINES World's Best Racehorse rankings."
DANIEL O'SULLIVAN ON INCENTIVISE'S CAULFIELD CUP WIN 
O'Sullivan said the visually spectacular win was backed up by the clock.

"It was certainly strong on the clock - sustained speed, superior stamina.

"[I rated it] Two-thirds of a length better than what I assessed him in his Tatts Cup win in Brisbane."

READ: What the jockeys said after the Caulfield CupWhile the lack of an international presence had some calling this year's Caulfield Cup a weak or ordinary edition, O'Sullivan pointed to runner-up Nonconformist as a reference for Incentivise's high rating.

"Take a horse like Nonconformist, who is flying in career-best form. He came off that good run at weight-for-age against Probabeel, who has well-established form lines.

"Incentivise has given him 4kg in weight and beaten him 3.5L ... so it's pretty hard to argue against an elite performance by Incentivise," O'Sullivan said.

"He worked early, sat up near a good speed and on the point of the turn there was barely 1.5L spread across five or six runners. Between the 300m and 100m mark he had put three lengths on them and was still going better than anything through the line."

READ: Incentivise handed 1.5kg Melbourne Cup penalty after Caulfield demolition 

While Incentivise's performance was 'world-class', Cox Plate favourte Zaaki still holds the highest performance rating for 1600m+ races in Australia this year.

"Zaaki ran 110 winning the Doomben Cup by 7L in the winter - that's the best performance at 1600m and beyond on my ratings this calendar year," O'Sullivan told Punters.

"Incentivise holds the next three best at 109.5, 108.5 (12L Tatts Cup win) and 105.5 in the Turnbull. Verry Elleegant has a 105.3, then Zaaki has two at 104.5."

Zaaki and Verry Elleegant are set to meet in this Saturday's Cox Plate at Moonee Valley.
reductio ad absurdum
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Best of luck selling selling that to Bonjour.  Big smile
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Not sure why you would post that when you doubt ratings? 

As you said yesterday "The worst thing that ever infiltrated Aussie racing was Timeform and other forms of ratings. If anybody thinks ratings are fact they are kidding themseves"
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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So yeah Djebel doesn't like ratings when it doesn't suit his opinion.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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furious View Drop Down
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Oh Jamal said it before just enjoy a good horse while he's around.  What happened only that morning to last seasons Cox Plate winner shows just how anything can go wrong in racing.

That was a hard win.  He show toughness through and through and overcome a run most horses would of folded up after.  The with top weight killed the field.  He's beaten the best around except for Zaaki this spring.  But he's beaten the one who beat Zaaki.  So he's got the form on board.

Three days on I'm still enjoying that win.  And I don't own him or train him or strap him.  I can only imagine what those people are feeling.
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And I agree completely furious , I'm bleating about how savage he's been treated at the weights , another poster tried to make a compelling case for Might and Power e.g. weight comparison , but as usual left out some facts to suit himself , MP raced up his life in town , winning at Randwick as a 2 y/0, 2 more restricted and 2 G3 , Franck Packer Plate, Show County , 2nd in the Canterbury Guineas , 4th in the AJC Derby , by the time Might and Power won the Caulfield Cup Incentivise had raced for the first time in the bush...Toowoomba , a far cry from a Royal Randwick.
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Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Not sure why you would post that when you doubt ratings? 

As you said yesterday "The worst thing that ever infiltrated Aussie racing was Timeform and other forms of ratings. If anybody thinks ratings are fact they are kidding themseves"
Touche!
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Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

And I agree completely furious , I'm bleating about how savage he's been treated at the weights , another poster tried to make a compelling case for Might and Power e.g. weight comparison , but as usual left out some facts to suit himself , MP raced up his life in town , winning at Randwick as a 2 y/0, 2 more restricted and 2 G3 , Franck Packer Plate, Show County , 2nd in the Canterbury Guineas , 4th in the AJC Derby , by the time Might and Power won the Caulfield Cup Incentivise had raced for the first time in the bush...Toowoomba , a far cry from a Royal Randwick.
* all.
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Originally posted by Bonjour Bonjour wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Not sure why you would post that when you doubt ratings? 

As you said yesterday "The worst thing that ever infiltrated Aussie racing was Timeform and other forms of ratings. If anybody thinks ratings are fact they are kidding themseves"
Touche!

I posted an article.

It is not a fact.

In the opinion of the source, the horse would have been competitive in the Arc.
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Originally posted by Bonjour Bonjour wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Not sure why you would post that when you doubt ratings? 

As you said yesterday "The worst thing that ever infiltrated Aussie racing was Timeform and other forms of ratings. If anybody thinks ratings are fact they are kidding themseves"

Touche! 

Some apparently don't understand the difference between a Timeform Rating and an opinion.

 
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Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

And I agree completely furious , I'm bleating about how savage he's been treated at the weights , another poster tried to make a compelling case for Might and Power e.g. weight comparison , but as usual left out some facts to suit himself , MP raced up his life in town , winning at Randwick as a 2 y/0, 2 more restricted and 2 G3 , Franck Packer Plate, Show County , 2nd in the Canterbury Guineas , 4th in the AJC Derby , by the time Might and Power won the Caulfield Cup Incentivise had raced for the first time in the bush...Toowoomba , a far cry from a Royal Randwick.

Nothing was conveniently left out to suit myself.

YOU are simply clutching at straws, clutching at anything, to believe in your own arguement.
reductio ad absurdum
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Carioca View Drop Down
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LOLLOLLOL I don't clutch at what you clutch at times Big smile ......I'm past it. Smile
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Oh they have a opinion.  Usually anti and horse bred or raced only in Australia.  Unless going back quite a few years.  I guess I'm glad that I can enjoy our horses.  They have given me pleasure for many years.  I love to see the ones who have been sent overseas perform on the racetrack or at stud.  Just this weekend another Australia stakesplaced mare had a stakewinner in the USA. 

I can still marvel when seeing a Frankel win at Ascot.  I can still marvel at a mare like Urban Sea and her performance on the track and at stud.

But I also think we punch above out weight and rundown our own horses way too much.  If there are no longer distances for our young stock to improve their staying ability yet we can come up with and Incentivise who literally didn't run until August last year.  So only just after one year racing he's won one of the big ones in Australia.

Yet you still think he's not something special.  Carioca is right.  That is a great achievement and one even I had overlooked.
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and that wasn't aimed at you Djebel.
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Handshake
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Even if he doesn't quite see out 2 miles he could dominate middle distance racing in Australia for quite a while. Not a very bold prediction because he's already dominated it this spring.Sick
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Three great products from Toowoomba , Bernborough StarStarStar Incentivise StarStar Carioca StarStar , god bless em all .Smile
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Why on earth did you end up in WA!  And I still love that Bernborough is in Winx pedigree.  Because she had his finish down pat!
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Wedding Cake furious LOLLOL , I'm sure it was " spiked " Big smile  I am a custard tart boy now Smile c'est la vie .
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Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

It was certainly so win. I commented to a friend watching that he’d need to be something special to win after being 6 wide the first turn. I didn’t think he could do it. Wow was I wrong!


I must have been watching a different race.

He had everything go perfect for him. At Caulfield you can be six deep around the first turn out of the straight, if you are crossing over with a horse who is putting speed into the race and spreading the field out. 

He had the perfect run all thanks to Oliver pushing forward. 

If the five horses inside him pushed up around the first turn and he was working to sit there or move forward it would have been different. 

Great ride from Prebble, and he could not have had a better run than he had.   
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Well said Voyager, we both went to M Valley a week early, how could we get it so wrong. Wink
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Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

It was certainly so win. I commented to a friend watching that he’d need to be something special to win after being 6 wide the first turn. I didn’t think he could do it. Wow was I wrong!


I must have been watching a different race.

He had everything go perfect for him. At Caulfield you can be six deep around the first turn out of the straight, if you are crossing over with a horse who is putting speed into the race and spreading the field out. 

He had the perfect run all thanks to Oliver pushing forward. 

If the five horses inside him pushed up around the first turn and he was working to sit there or move forward it would have been different. 

Great ride from Prebble, and he could not have had a better run than he had.   


Unsure why you would question whether you were watching the same race. Nothing I described did not occur? Was he not 6 wide into the first turn? Nor did I mention anything about the Prebble ride so a little puzzling that you would even mention it. 

I will be happy to concede that you almost certainly watch more races that I do. So for a point of reference could you give a strike rate for horses that are 6 wide into the first turn from the Caulfield 2400m? That will give us an idea of how easy it really is. Thumbs Up
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Covering ground for 400m in a mile and a half race is irrelevant as his main game was to be where he ended up, having ridden in races and being berated by the boss [Greg Childs master] for riding some dumb races I'm with Voyager and accolades to Prebble and his game plan.
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I’m sure you’re right. But do you have a strike rate? That would be great information to know just how easy or difficult it is. 
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Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

It was certainly so win. I commented to a friend watching that he’d need to be something special to win after being 6 wide the first turn. I didn’t think he could do it. Wow was I wrong!


I must have been watching a different race.

He had everything go perfect for him. At Caulfield you can be six deep around the first turn out of the straight, if you are crossing over with a horse who is putting speed into the race and spreading the field out. 

He had the perfect run all thanks to Oliver pushing forward. 

If the five horses inside him pushed up around the first turn and he was working to sit there or move forward it would have been different. 

Great ride from Prebble, and he could not have had a better run than he had.   

Hmmm it's a tough call really. No doubting the great ride from Prebble. But the horse did have to use up a bit in the straight and then going out of the straight. From there it worked out really well, Linda Meech wanted to give him cover inteading of taking cover on his back (very strange) and then the choice was simple to pull out when he did and put the pressure on. Quite simply Prebble rode it like the good thing it was, but I'm not sure any other horse in the race would've won with the same run bar Nonconformist.
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Meech rode an absolute peach of a race on Persan.
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What is so 'peachy' about going forward and parking outside the leader? I would say there's a 100% chance she would've finished closer had she let Incentivise go past her and taken a sit. 100%. Not only would she have had cover, when Incentivise poured the pressure on she wouldn't have had to engage, she could've just sat in the slipstream and pulled out around the home bend. Probably would've run second.

Not rocket science mate. 
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It's would have been hard to take a sit behind Incentivise given he was always behind Persan.  If Meech eases, Prebble eases too.  That's not rocket science either.

Here's what Ciaron had to say:

Hi Allan and Cheryl,

It was an incredibly emotional weekend for the stable, with the passing of 2020 Cox Plate winner Sir Dragonet on Saturday morning casting a long shadow over Saturday's racing.

Group 1 Caulfield Cup, 2400m

PERSAN (3rd)

An excellent performance from PERSAN who seems to always save his best for these big races. He stuck to his task to stay on a hot speed and showed everyone what a brave horse he is in these big G1 races.  Linda mentioned he was having a good blow after the line so his fitness will just improve from this run and that will put him in a great place condition-wise heading into the Melbourne Cup.
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