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Group 1 Australian Derby 2400m |
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Afros
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15302 |
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Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 8:02am |
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Take2
Champion Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5184 |
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Poor edition this year (in my opinion), anything can win this
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change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol
www.3rdmillenniumbloodstock.com.au |
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17253 |
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Tassie Derby form
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Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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VOYAGER
Champion Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Online Points: 18696 |
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Okay just a question.
This race's last five editions have rated extremely poorly so do we see or are we in danger of seeing this race lose its group 1 status. I dot think so, but if races like the Brisbane Cup and Adelaide Cup have lost their group 1 status due to the five year ratings then why is this race getting a pass mark? 2020 = Absolutely no group 1 form from it what so ever. 2019 = A few group 1 place getters but not one has looked like getting near a group 1 win since. 2018 = Not one of these race horses has been sighted in a group 1. 2017 = You know your derby's edition is pretty poor when So Si Bon has been the highlight since. 2016 = Hip Hip Hooray finally a worthy derby runner in Jameka, but again no one else has troubled the scorer at group 1 level. This is the anomaly in the race status in Australia. You can not lower the grade of a race which has poor ratings for the last five years and then not lower a race's grading, when they also have poor rating editions. You have to treat all races the same, but alas that might be too much logic for the administrators to understand. |
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45319 |
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Quick Thinker won the Gp2 Chaiman's today and is in the Sydney Cup with a great chance.
Angel of Truth has since been placed at Gp1 level in the Metrop and Ranvet. Levendi has since won at Group level. Jon Snow is since multiple Gp1 placed. And that's just the winners.
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jacko1
Champion Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1801 |
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The last five years has seen a big decrease in the quality of horse winning. The 3yo crop has been woeful this year.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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It's a modernism, if they show any speed they are not allowed to stay.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Magnolian Khan
Champion Joined: 23 Dec 2015 Location: SA Status: Offline Points: 8437 |
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Anything with a glimpse of talent is cashed in to HK
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Afros
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15302 |
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To many G1 Derby and Oaks races this time of year, this lot can race for $600k and another G1 in 4 weeks at Morphettville and another 5 weeks after that for another $600k and a G1 at Eagle Farm. Thankfully common sense started to prevail when Ascot's version became a G2 and maybe 2 of the 3 remaining at G1 level need to go down to G2 level to force the top liners to go to the G1.
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mikey
Champion Joined: 01 Nov 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 511 |
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How would Mo'unga have gone if he had run in The Derby?
I think better than he did in The Doncaster. Why dont trainer's let stayers be stayers?
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ExceedAndExcel
Champion Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16226 |
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How many of those should actually be group 1? Reckon there is a fair argument that the VRC & ATC versions are the only ones deserving.
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jacko1
Champion Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1801 |
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It's about stud value sadly. If he had won the Derby well he could have had a chance to tackle the Cups. Instead we'll never know if he could have been a great stayer.
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Afros
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15302 |
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To be honest I think there should be only 1 G1 Derby, at present we have 4 and only 3 G1s for open age over the same distance, absolutely crazy. The same goes for Oaks, Guineas etc. To many 3yo G1 options that allow horses to retire as multiple G1 winners without even facing outside their own age. (E.g. The Autumn Sun)
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Afros
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15302 |
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Need an edit button mayor
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31290 |
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Any chance of both Victorian and NSW derbies being downgraded to G2 or are they impervious to results?
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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They are impervious to results,
And rightly so,
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Was this a poor Derby ?
I am not so sure. Is it a poor bunch of staying 3yos ? I am not so sure. Johnny Got Angry Hit The Shot Let's Karaka A Deel Cetshwayo Through Irish Eyes Liqueuro Ain'tnodeeldun Are all promising and in some cases exciting stayers. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Pardon_My_Dust
Champion Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 9124 |
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Johnny Get Angry also looks the goods.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Thank you.
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reductio ad absurdum
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16890 |
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The AUSTRALIAN Derby should be a Group 1. There's is no need for 3 other Derbies to be Group 1. Same for the Oaks.
You shouldn't be running a 3YO staying 'grand final' 3 months into the season (Vic) and you shouldn't be running a 'grand final' in April then another one in May then another one in June (Aus, SA, QLD).
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Time is a flat circle
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45319 |
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Although the VRC Oaks is arguably too early, there's no way it should be downgraded imo.
A clear majority of recent winners of this particular Oaks have gone on to win or compete at the highest level at 4 and 5: over the last 16 or so years we find Miami Bound, Jameka, Dear Demi, Faint Perfume, Brazilian Pulse, Miss Finland, Serenade Rose, Special Harmony. Add in Pinot which never raced again and the brilliant Samantha Miss and it's a race that continues to produce genuine Group 1 gallopers. And go back anther generation and it's just the same: Kensington Palace, Saleous, Northwood Plume, Arborea, Tristanagh, Research the list goes on.
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jacko1
Champion Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1801 |
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I agree. The difference between the oaks and derbies imo is that the top fillies tend to be aimed towards the Oaks because they value the G1 on the pedigree page whereas the good colts owners in recent years see it as a negative for their stallion career and so the race has dropped in quality.
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Afros
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15302 |
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Yet Dundeel ran in two derbies, won 1 of them as well as a Spring Champion and a Roseghill Guineas and is shaping as a great stallion.
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51818 |
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Karaka Trifecta in Australian Derby
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45319 |
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A point well made by Breednet.
And thanks Gay.
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16890 |
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Not sure if it's a negative or more so the other races are seen as a positive but yes 100% agree.
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Time is a flat circle
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