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Dan Andrews

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rusty nails View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2024 at 11:28pm
No dummy.
Not even close to being analogous.
What’s the saying?
I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you…..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2024 at 11:38pm
Yeah, yeah....you can tell me in theory that the money already spent / invested at any point in time bears no influence on further spending / investing at that point in time based on changing outcomes.

But it does

Are you seriously telling me in E&E's footy example  that if you had already paid say $100 for a few non-refundable footy tickets vs going to buy at the gates that it would not influence a late change of mind if it started to rain ?

If you say it wouldn't you are fibbing LOL 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 9:36am
Done it many times.
I bought SOO tickets for me and 2 of my kids, it poured for days, and it was certain we’d get soaked, no matter what rain gear we had.
Had to buy them SOO jumpers to make up for the disappointment for them missing out.

Another time I took them all skiing for the weekend, would have been a $4-5k weekend.
2 hours on the first day, we were all soaked from rain, returned the hire skis and drove to Canberra and spent rest of the weekend there.
Got hundreds of situations like that.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 9:44am
Of course you have - we all have pulled out of things we have paid for for any number of reasons

That wasn't the question though. Are you seriously saying that if you had already paid to do buy something of do something that wouldn't come into come into the decision making process of you not finalising a balance payment or attending an activity  ?

If you say "no" you must have too much money Rusty. Either that or your different to most normal folk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 9:46am
Jesus my dementia is kicking in early today - that post reads terrible LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 9:51am
I get the "sunken cost" thingo - its an economic truism

However, the reality is most decisions in life do not run according to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 9:55am
Rusty would you like me too set up a poll thread & give a few examples to see how others feel ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 10:38am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

I get the "sunken cost" thingo - its an economic truism

However, the reality is most decisions in life do not run according to it.


The reality is that in a financial decision process, if you are including money that is spent regardless of which way you go then you have no idea what you are doing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 10:41am
Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

Done it many times.
I bought SOO tickets for me and 2 of my kids, it poured for days, and it was certain we’d get soaked, no matter what rain gear we had.
Had to buy them SOO jumpers to make up for the disappointment for them missing out.

Another time I took them all skiing for the weekend, would have been a $4-5k weekend.
2 hours on the first day, we were all soaked from rain, returned the hire skis and drove to Canberra and spent rest of the weekend there.
Got hundreds of situations like that.




Skiing is the perfect example! Remember the reports last winter of zero snow and people stuck with expensive non-refundable bookings? The money already paid is irrelevant. Do you dig your heels in, turn up and sit in your hotel room staring at an un-skiable mountain all weekend (getting more pissed off) or do you find something else to do? Money is already spent whatever you do so plays no part in the decision. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 11:22am
Wunwun, lets say you had put down a $5k non-refundable deposit on a new Toyota Forklift, with the remaining $25k to be paid upon you signing a contract to accept the deal, when an offer comes across your desk for another brand new same model Toyota Forklift, $15k and its yours, would you go ahead with the original purchase or accept the sunken cost and take up the second option that allows a greater saving overall?

Suspect this conundrum will present a challenge for you.
Seeing Manchester United relegated would mean more than words can describe to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 11:28am
Who pays a deposit without having a contract?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 11:33am
Commonwealth Games analogy should use the worst car you can buy that nobody else wants. It's not like it was a potentially good deal that later turned into a lemon. It was always a lemon. Stupid from the start.

An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 11:45am
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

Done it many times.
I bought SOO tickets for me and 2 of my kids, it poured for days, and it was certain we’d get soaked, no matter what rain gear we had.
Had to buy them SOO jumpers to make up for the disappointment for them missing out.

Another time I took them all skiing for the weekend, would have been a $4-5k weekend.
2 hours on the first day, we were all soaked from rain, returned the hire skis and drove to Canberra and spent rest of the weekend there.
Got hundreds of situations like that.




Skiing is the perfect example! Remember the reports last winter of zero snow and people stuck with expensive non-refundable bookings? The money already paid is irrelevant. Do you dig your heels in, turn up and sit in your hotel room staring at an un-skiable mountain all weekend (getting more pissed off) or do you find something else to do? Money is already spent whatever you do so plays no part in the decision. 
No - however to suggest you would not take into consideration the money already paid when making the decision is just cooky. Obviously if its a no brainer decision its irrelevant - however when its a "will I" or "wont I" decision you will obviously consider the amount of "skin" already invested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Wunwun, lets say you had put down a $5k non-refundable deposit on a new Toyota Forklift, with the remaining $25k to be paid upon you signing a contract to accept the deal, when an offer comes across your desk for another brand new same model Toyota Forklift, $15k and its yours, would you go ahead with the original purchase or accept the sunken cost and take up the second option that allows a greater saving overall?

Suspect this conundrum will present a challenge for you.
Do you really think every decision that is made in the world we live is based purely on financial outcomes Afros ?

And if you say "no" - then my argument is correct !

And I hope you don't say "no"" - but they should be !

Lets see how that "little conundrum" tickles your fancy LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mc41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 11:59am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Wunwun, lets say you had put down a $5k non-refundable deposit on a new Toyota Forklift, with the remaining $25k to be paid upon you signing a contract to accept the deal, when an offer comes across your desk for another brand new same model Toyota Forklift, $15k and its yours, would you go ahead with the original purchase or accept the sunken cost and take up the second option that allows a greater saving overall?

Suspect this conundrum will present a challenge for you.
Do you really think every decision that is made in the world we live is based purely on financial outcomes Afros ?

And if you say "no" - then my argument is correct !

And I hope you don't say "no"" - but they should be !

Lets see how that "little conundrum" tickles your fancy LOL
I made plenty initial bad decisions that where aimed at being good down the track,majority of decisions made by business is based on financial outcomes,personal decisions maybe less so
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 1:30pm
Don't worry MC 41 - I ALMOST made a bad decision as well LOL

Obviously a good decision relies on how good the end result is premised.

Not uncommon to work backwards Ouch


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Wunwun, lets say you had put down a $5k non-refundable deposit on a new Toyota Forklift, with the remaining $25k to be paid upon you signing a contract to accept the deal, when an offer comes across your desk for another brand new same model Toyota Forklift, $15k and its yours, would you go ahead with the original purchase or accept the sunken cost and take up the second option that allows a greater saving overall?

Suspect this conundrum will present a challenge for you.
Do you really think every decision that is made in the world we live is based purely on financial outcomes Afros ?

And if you say "no" - then my argument is correct !

And I hope you don't say "no"" - but they should be !

Lets see how that "little conundrum" tickles your fancy LOL

Lets be honest all business decisions have their roots in the financial implications of the decision.

Of course there may be situations where a hit here can be taken as in the bigger picture you end up in front, say in the example above, the original seller may provide some benefit if you're happy to take the initial $10k hit that actually provides savings elsewhere that would not be available had you simply taken the cheaper machine.

Of course you may make decisions outside of business that aren't necessarily dictated by the best financial outcome but thats not what the topic at hand is about.
Seeing Manchester United relegated would mean more than words can describe to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 2:39pm
Well it sort of was Afros

How much of the original Commonwealth Games decision was ever based on a strong financial footing ?

Rubbery figures from Day 1.

I would suggest many Government initiatives are not dictated by the best financial outcome. So my point was those erroneous outcomes from the original financials are just as likely to be erroneous again - because the "vibe" happened to change. I'm sure someone else could have have come in - looked at the same information - & come to the conclusion it was on target to meet original goals.

I mean it would be hardly the first time Governments got big proposals skew whiff. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 2:45pm
To summarise - as I'm starting to go info overload drunk - I think the concept of "sunken costs" exists more in the heads of anal accountants than it does in the reality of normal people / governments making decisions.

The concept sounds good 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 2:52pm
And a good time to ask this question - can we treat our Renewables expenditure to this point as a "sunken cost" & start again. LOL

The end result is not looking quite as rosy as once forecast Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mc41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

And a good time to ask this question - can we treat our Renewables expenditure to this point as a "sunken cost" & start again. LOL

The end result is not looking quite as rosy as once forecast Ouch
Never going to be nuclear,so push on 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

To summarise - as I'm starting to go info overload drunk - I think the concept of "sunken costs" exists more in the heads of anal accountants than it does in the reality of normal people / governments making decisions.

The concept sounds good 

You claim to own and run a successful business and think sunken cost is just a concept in the head of anal accountants.  Shocked

I hope for your sake your partners (both business and personal) have at least equal say in the running of the business lest your decisions lead to sunken cost fallacy.
Seeing Manchester United relegated would mean more than words can describe to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 10:02pm
Thanks for that Afros

I’ll give it some thought 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 10:03pm
For what it’s worth I have never heard any of my Accountants use the term 🤔
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mc41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

For what it’s worth I have never heard any of my Accountants use the term 🤔
Accountants 😏
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baghdad Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 10:40am

The Commonwealth Games debacle reported by the Auditor-General demonstrates everything that is wrong with the Victorian ALP government-  in policy formulation, costing and project management, transparency and accountability.

The Games were not determined in the public interest but as a stunt for buying votes in regional electorates in Victoria. Costings-ordination and project management were shambolic followed by dissimulation when the Games were abandoned with costs substantially overstated.

Typically no responsibility has been taken for the fiasco, yet Jacinta Allan, the current Premier of Victoria, was the responsible minister at that time.

Irrespective of that Commonwealth Games debacle the real question needed to be asked is: if Allan cannot get the finances right for a 12-day sporting event, then how can she be trusted to manage major infrastructure projects and the state budget?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 10:46am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

For what it’s worth I have never heard any of my Accountants use the term 🤔
It’s not an accounting term.
It’s an economic or management term/concept.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 11:08am
Picky, picky Rusty

Bloody hell ! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mc41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 11:10am
Majority of QLD don’t want the Olympic Games,total fiasco,both leaders playing games,not doing what’s best for QLD
🤬🤬🤬
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