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First Time Breeder and Broodmare |
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DirtRace 
Weanling 
Joined: 25 Apr 2019 Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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 Topic: First Time Breeder and BroodmarePosted: 05 May 2020 at 5:28pm |
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Hi there.
I want to breed with my mare - Shampers (Aus) Should I ??? Breed to race proposition. Cheers, 7m Congrats (USA) x Offshore Sham (Shamardal (USA)) Foaled September 24, 2012 Career: 55 starts, 9 - 6 - 7 $160,171 Trainer: W A Savage, Alice Springs Ownership: W A Savage, T L Gordon & Mrs B R Gordon Shampers is a 7 year old mare by Congrats out of the Shamardal mare, Offshore Sham. She has had 55 starts for 9 wins with the latest start being 2 days ago when 6th at Pioneer Park on May 3, 2020 in the Peter Kittle Pioneer Sprint over 1200 metres.
1st dam OFFSHORE SHAM (AUS 2007f. by Shamardal) Winner at 2 at 1200m, A$117,000, Hawkesbury RC Reavill Farm Inglis Series 2YO H.(trainer: G Portelli).(covered in 2019 by Shooting to Win) .2009 William Inglis Classic Yearling Sale; Vin Cox BStk Pty Ltd; Sold $32,500. Half-sister to Liberty Rock. Dam of four named foals, all winners, inc:- Shampers (AUS 2012f. by Congrats) 9 wins. See above. The Fred Express (AUS 2013g. by Not a Single Doubt) Winner at 1200m in 2019-20.(trainer: Charlotte Littlefield). Not served previous season in 2014 Exceltic (AUS 2015c. by Excelebration) Winner at 1100m, A$142,075, in 2018-19, 2d ATC Pierro 2YO P., January H., 3d ATC Canonbury S., Gr.3, Membership H.(trainer: G Portelli).2017 William Inglis Melbourne Premier Yearling Sale; Laurel Oak B/stock, NSW; Sold $120,000. Hellbenders (AUS 2016g. by Helmet) Winner at 1200m in 2019-20, ATC Sky Racing Active H., 2d ATC Mirvac H.(trainer: G Portelli).2018 William Inglis Melbourne Premier Yearling Sale; Portelli Racing, NSW; Sold $55,000. (AUS 2017f. by Fiorente) Not served previous season in 2018 (AUS 2019 foal by Deep Field)
2nd dam STATEN ISLAND (NZ 2002f. by More Than Ready) Unplaced. Half-sister to KALAMATA (dam of STIRLING GROVE), KIRVINSKY (dam of Miss Vixen), Kondari (dam of HUCKLEBUCK). Dam of 7 named foals, 6 to race, 4 winners, inc:- Liberty Rock (AUS 2009g. by Rock of Gibraltar) 4 wins-1 at 2-to 1400m, A$106,025, MRC Sportingbet Best Tote H., Le Pine Funerals H., 2d VRC Talindert S., L, 3d MRC Jimjoca H.(trainer: P G Moody).2011 Magic Millions Gold Coast Yearling Sale; Geoff Guest; Sold $110,000. Offshore Sham (AUS 2007f. by Shamardal) Winner. See above. Arrochar (AUS 2013g. by So You Think) 5 wins to 1550m, A$111,495, to 2019-20, MRC Dale Foenander H.(trainer: R E Laing).2015 William Inglis Sydney Easter Yearling Sale; R Laing, Vic; Sold $100,000. Capodanno (AUS 2015g. by Declaration of War) 3 wins at 1600m in 2019-20, CJC Racecourse Hotel & Motor Lodge H., 2d CJC Yaldhurst Wools and NZWTA H.(trainer: Ms T Rae).2017 William Inglis Classic Yearling Sale; Psd, Reserve $40,000. 2017 Magic Millions National Yearling Sale; Terri Rae, NEW ZEALAND; Sold $60,000. Morerockthanready (AUS 2008g. by Rock of Gibraltar) Placed (trainer: Simon Miller).2010 Magic Millions Gold Coast Yearling Sale; Belmont BStk Agency; Sold $72,500. Altamira (AUS 2012f. by Lope de Vega) Placed (trainer: B D Bellamy).(covered in 2019 by Rothesay) .2014 Magic Millions Gold Coast Yearling Sale; Moody Racing, Vic; Sold $70,000. 2016 William Inglis Great Southern Weanling & Bloodstock Sale; Lyndhurst Stud Farm, Qld; Sold $1,250. Dam of- Devil (AUS 2017g. by Nicconi) Raced twice (trainer: T N Miller).2019 Magic Millions GC March Yearling Sale; Trevor Miller, Qld; Sold $30,000. (AUS 2018f. by Rothesay) . 2020 Magic Millions GC March Yearling Sale; Psd, Reserve $10,000. (AUS 2019c. by Winning Rupert) (AUS 2010 foal by Bernardini) Still Thinking (AUS 2014g. by So You Think) Trialled . 2016 William Inglis Sydney Easter Yearling Sale; Inglis As Agent, NSW; Sold $60,000. (AUS 2017f. by Rubick) . 2019 William Inglis Classic Yearling Sale; Gerald's Racing / DJI B/stock, NSW; Sold $37,000. (AUS 2018f. by Air Force Blue) (AUS 2019f. by No Nay Never)
3rd dam KIRTLINGTON (AUS 1996f. by Scenic) Unraced . 1998 William Inglis Sydney Easter Yearling Sale; R Hore-Lacy; Sold $32,500. 2000 William Inglis June Weanling/tb Sale; Sold $30,000. 2002 New Zealand Bloodstock National Broodmare & Weanling Sale; Mr Barry Taylor; Sold $41,000. Half-sister to Irish Opera. Dam of 10 foals, 8 to race, 5 winners- KALAMATA (AUS 2000f. by Desert Prince) 6 wins to 1400m, Wanganui JC Waikato Stud S., L, ARC Mercedes Great Northern Breakfast 3YO H., Avondale JC Auckland Racehorse Owners Association H., 3d Hawkes Bay Mudgway Partsworld S., Gr.1, MRC Geoffrey Bellmaine S., L. 2001 William Inglis Weanling Sale; Psd. 2006 William Inglis Weanling & Broodmare Sale; Scone BStk Services Pty Ltd; Sold $90,000. 2017 Magic Millions National Broodmare Sale; Aquis Happy Valley Synd/Blue Sky BS (FBAA), QLD; Sold $28,000. Dam of- STIRLING GROVE (AUS 2007g. by Mossman) 7 wins-3 at 2-to 1400m, A$546,690, SAJC Sires' Produce S., Gr.3, VRC Schweppes Tonic P., My Room P., MRC Premier Signs P., SAJC Adelaide Casino Cup Day H., Vodafone 2YO P., Schweppes Fulham Park 2YO P., 2d SAJC Jansz S., Gr.3, MRC Doveton S., L, SAJC Manihi Classic, L, VRC Emirates Airlines H., SAJC Allan Scott Park Morphettville Flying H., 3d SAJC Goodwood H., Gr.1, MRC Schillaci S., Gr.2-twice, SAJC WH Wylie H., L, 4th SAJC DC McKay S., Gr.3.(trainer: R R Jolly).2009 William Inglis Melbourne Premier Yearling Sale; R Jolly; Sold $52,500. Vintage Grove (AUS 2012g. by Mossman) 6 wins from 1350m to 1950m, A$137,610, to 2018-19, SAJC Hughes Limousines H., Oakbank RC Big Screen Video H., 2d SAJC Rewaaya P., Mac Drink Driving Grow Up H., 3d SAJC Hughes Limousines H., Gawler & Barossa JC Ausbia Electrical H.(trainer: Ryan Dawson). Sir Kalahad (AUS 2014g. by All Too Hard) 6 wins at 1100m, 1200m, A$122,180, to 2019-20, 2d MVRC Thronum at Sun Stud H.(trainer: Gavin Bedggood).2015 Magic Millions National Weanling Sale; Lyndhurst Farm, Waikato; Sold $160,000. 2016 New Zealand Bloodstock National Yearling Sale; Little Kwok Hing Hung/Bahen B/stock, Hong Kong; Sold $525,000. 2016 New Zealand Bloodstock Ready to Run Sale; DC Harrison, Vic; Sold $150,000. 2019 William Inglis Inglis Digital November Sale 2 ; Gavin Bedggood Racing, Vic; Sold $22,500. Kotinos (AUS 2013g. by Congrats) 5 wins to 1400m, A$104,185, to 2018-19.(trainer: Nick Mitchell).2015 Magic Millions Gold Coast Yearling Sale; Matchem Racing P/L, VIC; Sold $140,000. Olive (AUS 2015f. by All Too Hard) Placed to 2019-20, 2d MVRC Strathmore Bendigo Bank P.(trainer: M Ellerton & S Zahra).2017 William Inglis Melbourne Ready to Race; MC Kent Racing Stables, Vic; Sold $140,000. Raischek (AUS 2011f. by Mossman) Raced once (trainer: M G Price).(covered in 2019 by Press Statement) .2013 William Inglis Melbourne Premier Yearling Sale; Psd, Reserve $60,000. 2015 Magic Millions National Broodmare Sale; Psd, Reserve $30,000. Dam of- Kalamon (AUS 2016g. by Husson) Winner at 1000m in 2019-20.(trainer: R & C Jolly).2018 William Inglis Classic Yearling Sale; Richard Jolly Racing, SA; Sold $80,000. Serac (AUS 2017g. by All Too Hard) Unraced. (AUS 2018c. by Headwater) . 2020 William Inglis Classic Yearling Sale; T/bred Union, Qld; Sold $80,000. (AUS 2019c. by All Too Hard) Knight's Journey (AUS 2006c. by Good Journey) Trialled . 2007 Magic Millions Gold Coast National Select Weanling Sale; Moranjee Thoroughbreds; Sold $11,000. (AUS 2009f. by Benicio) (AUS 2010f. by Starcraft) Barafundle (AUS 2017c. by Headwater) Unraced . 2018 William Inglis Chairman's Sale Breeding Prospects; Mullaglass Stud, NSW; Sold $40,000. 2019 William Inglis Classic Yearling Sale; China Horse Club / M Freedman, NSW; Sold $85,000. (AUS 2018f. by Divine Prophet) . 2020 Magic Millions Gold Coast Yearling Sale; Bahen B/stock, Vic; Sold $180,000. (AUS 2019c. by Jukebox) KIRVINSKY (NZ 2005f. by Stravinsky) 3 wins-1 at 2-at 1100m, 1200m, A$169,150, VRC Moomba P., L, Nouvelle Star H., MRC Bill Duncan 2YO P., 2d MRC Dennis Hanrahan H., 3d SAJC Jansz S., Gr.3, MVRC Entire Shopfitting 3YO Fillies P.(covered in 2019 by Tosen Stardom) .2007 William Inglis Sydney Easter Yearling Sale; Alderson Rcg; Sold $70,000. Dam of- Miss Vixen (AUS 2014f. by Foxwedge) 4 wins-1 at 2-to 1200m, A$361,250, to 2018-19, MRC Bert Bryant H., Ladbrokes Cash In H., Spicer Thoroughbreds H., 2d SAJC Proud Miss S., Gr.3, MRC VOBIS Gold, Ladbrokes Multiverse H., 3d MRC Mypunter.com H., Moorookyle Park H.(trainer: Ms C Alderson). Approach Me (AUS 2011f. by New Approach) Winner at 1000m, MRC (Mornington) Land Engineering P.(trainer: C & C Alderson).(covered in 2019 by Overshare) . Dam of- Beyond Reproach (AUS 2016f. by Helmet) Raced twice (trainer: Ms C Alderson). (AUS 2017c. by Warrior's Reward) Henry George (AUS 2012g. by Bel Esprit) 2 wins at 1100m.(trainer: Ms C Alderson). Vindico (AUS 2015g. by Pierro) Placed at 3 in 2018-19.(trainer: Ms C Alderson). Delta Grey (AUS 2016f. by Dalakhani) Placed at 3 in 2019-20.(trainer: Ms C Alderson). Veranskova (AUS 2017f. by Written Tycoon) Unraced. Lord Sudurka (NZ 2003c. by Sudurka) 3 wins to 1300m, MRC Nuffield H., 2d MVRC Omega Smeg H., 3d MRC Fairyhouse H., Le Pine Funeral Services H. Kondari (NZ 2004f. by O'Reilly) Winner at 1250m, SAJC Tooheys New P., 2d SAJC AV Jennings H.(covered in 2019 by Merchant Navy) .2006 New Zealand Bloodstock NZ National Yearling Sale; Sold $90,000. Dam of- HUCKLEBUCK (AUS 2010g. by Elvstroem) 8 wins from 1100m to 1600m, A$1,164,320, VRC Emirates S., Gr.1, Yellowglen S., Gr.3, CS Hayes S., Gr.3, MRC Gothic S., L, SAJC Durbridge S., L, Flight Centre H., Dominant H., 2d VRC Carbine Club S., Gr.3, 3d MRC CF Orr S., Gr.1, MVRC Mitchelton Wines P., 4th MVRC Australia S., Gr.2, BRC BTC Classic, Gr.3, MRC Testa Rossa S., L.(trainer: P Stokes).2012 Magic Millions Adelaide Yearling Sale; Phillip Stokes Rcg; Sold $50,000. Courtza King (AUS 2011g. by Northern Meteor) 6 wins to 1400m, A$352,840, to 2018-19, ATC Cellarbrations H., BRC Athlete's Foot H., Sky Racing P., Prive249 Restaurant P., SCTC Coolum Business & Tourism H., 2d ATC Tab.com.au P., Qld Tatt's RC Weddings at Tatt's Club Cup H., Ubet H., BRC Madame Wu H., Relaxed Racing H., GA Season Pass H., SCTC Clinic One H., 3d BRC Madison Cleaning Services H., ATC All Too Hard at Vinery H., TAB Rewards H.-twice, BRC Nugrow P.(trainer: T J Gollan).2013 William Inglis Melbourne Premier Yearling Sale; Blueblood TBreds, NSW; Sold $55,000. 2013 William Inglis Classic Yearling Sale-Winter Book; Triple Crown Syndications, NSW; Sold $66,000. Son of Unicorn (AUS 2012c. by Mossman) 4 wins at 1350m, 1500m in Macau.(trainer: JMM).2014 Magic Millions National Yearling Sale; Psd, Reserve $200,000. Buckle Up (AUS 2014g. by Mossman) Winner at 1200m.(trainer: J A O'Shea).2016 William Inglis Sydney Easter Yearling Sale; Champion T/breds, NSW; Sold $100,000. Ranomi (AUS 2009f. by Churchill Downs) Unraced . 2011 Magic Millions Adelaide Yearling Sale; Psd, Reserve $40,000. 2013 William Inglis Melbourne August Thoroughbred Sale; D Clarke, Vic; Sold $700. Zaracha (AUS 2010g. by Danehill Dancer) Winner at 1300m, 2d Ipswich TC Jim McKenzie Memorial H.(trainer: Garry Osborne).2012 William Inglis Sydney Easter Yearling Sale; Darrell Ible BStk, NSW; Sold $70,000. Portway (AUS 2009g. by Good Journey) Placed at 3 (trainer: C & C Alderson). Staten Island (NZ 2002f. by More Than Ready) Producer. See above. Gold Stream (AUS 2007f. by Elvstroem) Unplaced (trainer: G H Walter).2009 William Inglis Melbourne Premier Yearling Sale; Proven T/breds; Sold $90,000. Dam of- All the Wine (AUS 2013g. by Torch Relay) Placed to 2019-20, 2d Ballarat TC Sportsbet's the Hotham P.(trainer: Nathan Hobson). Top Rail (AUS 2012g. by Stryker) Trialled . 2014 Magic Millions Adelaide Yearling Sale; Phillip Stokes Racing, SA; Sold $28,000. Fear Gough (AUS 2014g. by Von Costa de Hero) Unraced. (AUS 2017f. by Sharkbite) Spyglass Hill (AUS 2006f. by Volksraad) Unraced .(covered in 2019 by Ribchester) .2008 William Inglis Melbourne Premier Yearling Sale; M Hibbs; Sold $57,500. 2010 William Inglis Great Southern Bloodstock Sale; William Inglis-ag; Sold $20,000. Dam of- Refined Treasure (AUS 2014g. by Lope de Vega) 4 wins at 1000m, HK$4,512,250, to 2018-19, HKJC Amethyst H., Sam Shing H., Li Cup, Bonham H., 2d HKJC Macau H., Peninsula Golden Jubilee H.(trainer: A T Millard).2016 William Inglis Classic Yearling Sale; Inglis As Agent, NSW; Sold $60,000. Treasure Island (AUS 2012f. by Duporth) Winner at 1300m, 2d BRC Sky Thoroughbred Central H., 3d BRC Sky Thoroughbred Central P.(trainer: John Holcombe).(covered in 2019 by Bon Aurum) . Dam of- (AUS 2018f. by Bon Hoffa) (AUS 2019c. by Holler) Only Guessing (AUS 2015f. by So You Think) Placed in 2019-20.(trainer: G M Duryea).2017 William Inglis Melbourne Premier Yearling Sale; G Duryea, NSW; Sold $20,000. (AUS 2011 foal by Husson) (AUS 2017f. by Kermadec) . 2019 William Inglis Classic Yearling Sale; Gerald's Racing / DJI B/stock, Aus; Sold $30,000. (AUS 2018f. by Epaulette) La Lucha (AUS 2013f. by Street Boss) Unraced. |
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DirtRace
Weanling
Joined: 25 Apr 2019 Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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Posted: 05 May 2020 at 5:31pm |
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Oh, and who would be a good sire and why..
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Majestic
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Joined: 23 Mar 2013 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 1303 |
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Posted: 05 May 2020 at 5:40pm |
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Look up Jimmy Creed at Vic Spendthrift. Rates well with your mare and good price for breed to race
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DirtRace
Weanling
Joined: 25 Apr 2019 Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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Posted: 05 May 2020 at 5:48pm |
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Is that advice simply as per e nicks.
Edited by Gay3 - 05 May 2020 at 6:51pm |
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Second Chance
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Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45760 |
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Posted: 05 May 2020 at 6:39pm |
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You could look at it another way in terms of nicks.
Congrats has nicked well with Danehill and
More than Ready. Shamardal has nicked well with Redoute’s Choice, Flying Spur, More
Than Ready (again) and AP Indy. So what reasonably priced stallions carry a decent amount of
this blood? Well more than a few have some
of the influences, but not too many have a majority of them. One stallion that immediately attracts is Kiss and Make Up
standing at Aquis Qld. He’s by More Than
Ready and the match would give you a 1m x 4f cross of that stallion. And his maternal sire is Redoute’s Choice by
Danehill.
So if you further explore that route you may well find some more that appear to suit.
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furious
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25171 |
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Posted: 05 May 2020 at 7:09pm |
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Yes abit like SC above. The best from the line appart from the Danehill line Hucklebuck is Acushla Marie by Lord Ballina (Bletchingly/Star Affair by Star Kingdom) She carried an inbreeding to Relic who was often doubled in a stakeswinner by by Bletchingly.
So any of the Redoute's clan with his Bletchingly blood through Canny Lad and Danehill blood (as in Elvstroem sire of Hucklebuck). One would think Street Cry blood would be an ideal cross for the Shamardal blood in your mare. Or you could check out sires with Not a Single Doubt (by Redoute's Choice) or Snippets (by Lunchtime) in their lines as they also belong to your female line of 20a. They also reinforce the liking for Bletchingly and Danehill blood so your line must really like what those sires deliver in a pedigree.
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Progold
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Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3212 |
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Posted: 05 May 2020 at 7:30pm |
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Given that the mare has a very international pedigree, as does Jimmy Creed I am wondering if those nicking figures are largely for US horses rather than Australian bred ones. Does it matter? Should it matter?
Back to the mare though, she obviously could run as can plenty from the family so if you aren't concerned with the sales ring, then there is no reason not to breed if that is what you want to do. Remembering in the current climate you can go to plenty of sales and buy one for cheaper than you can breed and without some of the heartache that can go along with breeding. An interesting family and if you trace back the female line you find a mare called Ghuznee who only stood at 14.3 hands but won the Epsom Oaks at her first race start. Family members that you may be more familiar with include the wonderful Blue Peter, Tantieme, Ticino, Pharis and the US horse Roman. More recently it is Alysheba, the world's leading money winner when he retired in the 80's, Miesque who won 12 of her 16 races, and her son Kingmambo that are among the best known. My initial instinct is that some good colonial blood would benefit the family here, but noting that the mare ended up racing on the dirt in Alice Springs, that may not necessarily be the right strategy. I will spend some time over the next few days having a bit of a look, and assume that Vic and SA look the most realistic options as far as travel goes.
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DirtRace
Weanling
Joined: 25 Apr 2019 Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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Posted: 05 May 2020 at 9:14pm |
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Thanks for all the comment so far.
There are a few of us breeding including our Trainer. Quite sure we will push on here.. We are breeding to race on the dirt in the NT. No need to race as a two year old up here anymore so will possibly be trained in the city at two or we wait till three. Perhaps she never makes it to Alice Springs and stays in town. I've looked at hundreds of Australian Sires and obviously more confused than when I started. Shes always had natural pace, struggles to finish of her races at times. I start by looking at sires that do well here. Bel esprit - the nicking etc always bad. Sons of american bred dirt sires. (Tapit / Medaglia) Frosted / Astern War front sons - Nicking suggests a good way to go. A much better sire on grass than dirt in the US it seems though. Should we even breed for the dirt when the city could offer so much more??? Ive spoken to many breeders and get the impression that all of them have the perfect sire for me! Anyway; these are all the things that add to my confusion. Clearly people here offering good advice with far more knowledge than I. Cheers, |
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Second Chance
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Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45760 |
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Posted: 05 May 2020 at 9:25pm |
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Mate we're also here to confuse.
ps if you're worried about the dirt aspect you'd do worse than duplicating More Than Ready.
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Ticino
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Joined: 20 Oct 2008 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 4446 |
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 4:21am |
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Hello,
May I Point out "Ticino" is from a ifferent branch, in his case it's the Fam. 20-b, the best known Austratlian horse is "Helios". Not to Forget "Pharis" is the Sire of Asterblüte (German Derby winner 1949) regards, Ticino |
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Progold
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Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3212 |
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 1:34pm |
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Doing some research on something else and I came across Acushla Marie who is the mare's 4th dam. She beat Mannerism at that fillies second race start at Cranbourne is a Class 3 3yo fillies race on 10-10-1990. Acushla Marie was a more than handy galloper going on to win the G1 Winfield Classic, now the Coolmore Classic, in Sydney over 1500m on 28 March 1992 when Mannerism again ran 4th. She also won the Diamond Jubilee (now the Sunline) at Moonee Valley and the Frances Tressady at Flemington.
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furious
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 1:37pm |
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One of the reasons I suggested looking for Bletchingly blood Progold. Read above.
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furious
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 1:39pm |
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It is interesting to see that a different line of the 20a family which produced Not a Single Doubt shows that Danehill/Bletchingly cross from Redoute's to it's liking. And Snippets from the same family love the blood also. So something works in the cross. And lets face it Not a Single Doubt has managed 7 G1 winners over of the last 12 months. That is high grade indeed.
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furious
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 6:34pm |
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Just as a thought you could look at Squamosa the son of Not a Single Doubt who has a stakes winner today. He's inbred to Bletchingly from the Danehill line and carrying that line of 20-a.
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furious
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 6:35pm |
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Oh and Speak John in Success Express is also in him and his is a good source of 1-l blood found in your mare though Shamardal.
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Second Chance
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 6:58pm |
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And continuing that general line of discussion, one stallion far closer to homewell worth considering might be Barbados who's done quite well with mares limited in both number and quality.
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DirtRace
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 7:03pm |
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His name is Ken Beer. Anyone have an opinion or experience with him? Seems like a nice enough fellow. There is no way Im going to work this breeding caper out this year. Next year. Cheers,
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DirtRace
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 7:05pm |
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Happy to see your opinions continue; every one of them leads me to learn a little more.
Many thanks...
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Progold
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 7:24pm |
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OK, so I have had a bit of a look at the mare, and given the family, it is one that is possibly commercial. She is after all a half to a stakes winner and has won 9 races. That isn't necessarily the aim but it can always be a good fallback. I have come up with three Victorian stallions that I think have a bit to offer. First up the cheapest offering in CLUSTER. He hasn't had many foals so really not a commercial prospect but he has a bit that makes for an interesting mating for the mare. He is by Fastnet Rock and the family has done well with sons of Danehill. He introduces Bletchingly through his second damsire. Cluster also hails from the same family as the mare, both tracing to a granddaughter of Ghuznee called Bicycle by Blair Athol. His progeny's performance to date don't give a great deal of confidence though.
A more realistic option I think is Americain who I think will be discounted heavily from his last advertised fee. He was a top line horse and he has gone OK at stud sitting in the top 100. We could get into a long discussion about how he was never going to suit a wide range of local mares, and that Australian breeders probably misread his pedigree, but the bottom line is that he is producing some decent runners which is really what it is all about. He doesn't have a lot to offer really in terms of line-breeding, but it is in my view a very good solid pedigree that I would expect to produce a horse that can run, and might just give the mare that bit of strength to find a bit more at the end of the races. It is also one that has plenty of good dirt lines, so if it is lacking a little on the grass, it might well improve on the dirt. Probably my favourite stallion for the mare is Shamus Award. A little more expensive but he is doing a great job at stud producing lots of winners and a good ratio of stakes winners. Another mating that you might not looks anything special, but a very good solid match introducing quality Australian speed lines. This sort of mating has had a lot of success in the family, and this could even be a commercially viable prospect at the end of the day. |
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Second Chance
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 7:31pm |
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Ken is heavily into line breeding, essentially finding sires that duplicate positive elements in a mare's pedigree. I am too, but have found your mare very hard to match from a line breeding perspective.
If you want to continue a discussion with Ken you might mention the sires suggested above, but indicate they were suggested on the basis of known nicks rather than line breeding. I'd add that several of those who've provided opinion here have a very successful history of designing and recommending successful matings, and one or two have themselves had equal success breeding a considerable number of winners based of their pedigree research. Shampers is arguably past her best and might be better placed in the breeding barn this Spring, however that's entirely your call. Best of luck which ever way you go.  |
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DirtRace
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 7:47pm |
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Hmmmm...
I've engaged ken. Not ridiculous, but not cheap. Possibly a mistake? Cheers |
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Second Chance
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Posted: 06 May 2020 at 7:54pm |
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Opinions are like @rseholes mate, everyone has one, and there are plenty out there who charge plenty for their pedigree advice. I've found some good, some fair, and many more quite ordinary. Nearly all will claim their successes but needless to say won't mention any of their failures.
Wouldn't be paying overs for Beer's advice.
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Brudder_A
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Posted: 16 Jul 2023 at 5:29pm |
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2nd G1 winner Whitebeam in the G1 Diana Stakes at Saratoga defeating In Italian (1/3on) by a nose.
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Second Chance
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Posted: 16 Jul 2023 at 6:11pm |
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Thanks Brudder.
Is Caravaggio coming back to Oz at $27,500? He earlier stood just the one one season (2018) in Oz without much success. In the NH he first stood for three years in the UK, then two in the USA, and this year spent the breeding season in Japan: so he's an extraordinarily well travelled fellow! ps I see the subject mare has been served by Showtime which I see provides a cross to More Than Ready and multiples to Mr P.
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