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For the Pedigree buffs to chew over.

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Aussiepunta View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Dec 2016 at 12:18pm
Continuing on from the Zabeel thread im interested on the thoughts of this mating, particulary the Denise's Joy factor, as well as Zabeel of course.
I dont have fancy websites to check this.

What are your impressions? Breeder if definitely trying something here.

Ocean Park X Blue Rata Jewel 

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Aussie
Im just an ex con tryna go straight and get my kids back.
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Aussiepunta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Aussiepunta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 9:29am
Its like a ghost town in here.....

Here's a small story about Denise's Joy and some of her progeny.
She was a multiple Oaks winner and won the turnball stakes ect

I do like the Star kingdom influence in the Daughters of Joy and fun (daughter of Denise joy).




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Aussiepunta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Aussiepunta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 9:35am
Here's one about Denise's Joy's Pedigree, i dont understand it that much but someone might.


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Nostradamus II View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Nostradamus II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 9:53am
Blue Rata Jewel's female line back to Joy And Fun is solid with 15 runners for 14 winners in the first 2 dams. Comes from the 16c family and duplicating Joy And Fun via Thorn Park on the sire line is a great way to tap into her. It also helps that Zabeel 3x3 is from the same 16c family. 

Therefore we have the 16c family channeling in to the sire line and dam line of Ocean Park and the same for Blue Rata Jewel. An intriguing and presumably deliberate breeding that if a failure on the track, may find resurrection in the breeding shed, being an un-named 2yo filly.
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Second Chance View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 9:53am
Sorry we didn't drop everything and respond to your query.  However if you're patient am sure you'll get plenty of input.

As is the case with me, others may be tied up working their way through the Classic, MM and Melbourne Premier yearling catalogues.
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Aussiepunta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Aussiepunta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 10:46am
Cheers Nostradamus, i'll do some reaserch into the 16C family, i noted that the first fill by Darci Brahma also (3x3 zabeel) was unraced? I did like this mating better though, the addition of the Joy and fun daughters, both being out of the star kingdom line via Bletchingly and Mighty Kingdom was a plus.
I think she'd be an interesting broodmare after her racing days are done for sure.
I do love breeders that try things and your right in that this one is delierate. Was sold in the NZ R to R sale.
Is a very nice horse with the only slight knock being on the small side.
Being out of two cox plate winners? It will be intersting what distance she may prefer.
No problems SC
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Second Chance View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 3:13pm
When I saw the Zabeel 3 x 3 I thought no, this might be too dour.

But no, there are some balancing influences including 3 lines of Star Kingdom through Biscay and Marscay and possibly more importantly through those 16c siblings Christmas Spirit and Jewel In The Crown you've mentioned who've both proven themselves as broodmare influences:- particularly in terms of superior sprinter-miler types..  

So I agree with both of you that this appears to be a carefully planned mating and one we might well keep our eyes on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 8:31pm
Second Chance you can get sprinters inbred to Sir Tristram and Stayers inbred three times to Star Kingdom.  So yes it depends on many factors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 9:53pm
Hello,
the 16c Branch is in Germany well represented via Festa and Schwarze Kutte (Schwarzgold). 
For understandable reason the common ancestor is to find during the 19th Century.
 
Festa was imported to Germany in the early 20th Century by the "Waldfried Stud". She had 5 foals
(4 sons, and luckily 1 daugther, 3 of her sons went to stud (Fervor, Fels, Festino) and her only female offspring was able to continue her damline 'til our days. For example Monsun carries 8times Fervor (7.- 9. Gen.)
Festa had a FB named Desmond, his name I spot a few times in Aussie peds.
 
Schwarze Kutte was imported to Germany in the 1920's (Schlenderhan Stud), her best offspring was Schwarzgold (German Derby winner), she had only 2 foals, who carried on her damline and meanwhile, she is wellknown as ancestress of Sagace, Steinlen, Slip Anchor etc.
 
The third strain I know is the "Judy O'Grady" branch in the U.S, ancestress of Grey Dawn, Okawango and Authorized.
 
regards, Ticino
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 6:14pm
Aussiepunta.. I would give this mating the thumbs up and believe that planning a mating like this will give the breeder more chance of getting an outstanding horse than sending a mare to Ocean Park without any line breeding patterns present.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 6:22pm
This horse no champion but even more inbred to Zabeel than in the pedigree above and has won over 1200m 1400m and 1600m

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 6:34pm

This horse bred similarly as the first pedigree.  Line breeding using the dams female line to my mind a huge plus. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 6:44pm
Similar structured pedigree

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Aussiepunta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussiepunta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 9:21am
Thanks Swynford
I also liked how the half sisters are both out of the star Kingdom line, there's plenty of star kingdom in the pedigree Alma Mater has a double cross, Glittering girl has a double cross and Christmas spirit is from the same line. I really loved the pedigree, already thinking of her breeding days lol!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussiepunta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 9:36am
Update:
Talented on her day, had her share of injury/illness and extremely unlucky....but.

Question for the breeders, would you breed this mare to Telperion? I'm interested in peoples points of view? Looking to at this stage breed to race as she wouldn't be comercial, (that may still change).
What stallions would people suggest and why?
cheers
Aussie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 9:49am
I don't think your thread title is too conducive to browsers & I can't even find her name whiich imo would be a more suitable title unless you can suggest a better one Smile
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussiepunta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 1:40pm
Hi Gay
That's part of the test if people cant work out who i'm talking about then missing out on their researched advice is fine. Rather no responses than throw away comments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 2:17pm
Well if we're playing riddles, can tell you I don't quite know if you're talking about Blue Rata Jewel or a daughter of hers by Ocean Park.

If it's the latter you'll be line breeding back to the same female family with siblings Christmas Spiritand Jewel In The Crown 5 x 4 x 5 (I think) and adding two more lines of Star Kingdom.  Can't be sure as my Tesio isn't working properly after adding some Chefs.

But if I'm right, and you're breeding to race, can't see why you wouldn't give it a go.

Over to others.
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Aussiepunta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussiepunta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 2:31pm
Just thought if someone could be bothered to determine who she is then they'd be more likely to put some thought in the their replies, rather than throw away comments.
SC the latter is correct.
Thr problem is Telperion is at Westbury stud in NZ....only 5K though.
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Second Chance View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 3:01pm
Cheers.

Or you could consider Spieth as he's from the Denise's Joy family also, via Christmas Spirit.

Was advertised at $16,500 in 2019 but since 2020 will be his third season would be very surprised if you couldn't negotiate a price less than half that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 3:04pm
Make that his sire Thorn Park is from the Denise's Joy family via Christmas Spirit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussiepunta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 3:28pm
Interesting that would bring Thorn Park in again and thats a lot of inbreeding.. Where as Telperion is by Street cry and the Denise's Joy factor comes in through the damn side....
Im just an ex con tryna go straight and get my kids back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 3:53pm
In my case, I haven't seen any incentive to renew my $30+ ASB subscription, they can go jump for what they provide but I do have Tesiopower for research purposes.
Had Photobucket not ceased their freebie option, I would've been able to check her out via Swynford's super easy charts.

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 4:02pm
Yes AP, 2 x 3 is a bit of an ask.

ps for Gay: given you have a viable Tesio I'll just have to task you with some research if my Tesio contiues to fall over.  Tongue
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