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I AM INVINCIBLE

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straight View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote straight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2010 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by BAZZ BAZZ wrote:

Originally posted by straight straight wrote:

Originally posted by dimevision dimevision wrote:

straight i stand by his best being not his group three win but his goodwood second

Look not into potting horses
but i truely imho think he is up against it
as stated above reasons far out weigh him getting support at 10k and wont get anywhere near 100 mares
he is a 3k to 5k stallion
 
i think he will get 100 mares or at least very close to that. yarraman will support with their own mares to kickstart his career as they did with foreplay. and as for price , the way stallions are priced in the hunter i think 10k would be one of the cheaper fees .
you make a valid point as yarraman will support the stallion but for the 10k i feel theres better value elsewhere
u dont have to b dead to b stiff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Faster Runner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2010 at 3:52am
I dont know about better value elsewhere
This horse is quite unique being by Invincible Spirit
He has ahalf brother in at  easter this year plus 2 other relations
2 more from his pedigree were in the top 10 lots at classic
I would think most large breeder would be throwing one his way
He could just be a carbon copy of his sire, Wont you be kicking yourself then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2010 at 2:40am
I just got a Yarraman brochure which featured this horse....what a stunning type, I'm sure he is even more impressive in the flesh.
 
I don't think they will have any problems filling this horse, he looks a real beauty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buckeroo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 10:41pm
Just had a look at Yarraman website........Will be sending a couple of mares to him .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dimevision Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2010 at 12:39am
for me because I have three nice two year olds from Invincible Spirit's last aussie crop and still have two of the mares which produced them he's got to be worth considering for those mares
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote runtowin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2010 at 12:58am
Lucky you wish i had some 2 year old Invincibles!!! If you think they go good you'd have to consider putting your mares in foal to him to get 3/4relatives. I just cant get out of my head Peter Morgan always talking about his bad feet and leg problems buy he is a magnificent animal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bottom Line Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 5:47am
Originally posted by buckeroo buckeroo wrote:

Just had a look at Yarraman website........Will be sending a couple of mares to him .
Gee and without even knowing the price. Your keen!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troppo75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by buckeroo buckeroo wrote:

Just had a look at Yarraman website........Will be sending a couple of mares to him .


Thats plain stoooopid...  he had bad feet and throat issues... he is a breeding risk. You cant seriously support the horse just on a picture or 2 especially as stated no fee has been set.

Use him at your own risk. I cant see the market warming to a son of Invincible Spirit. Even though I like the sireline myself, he just didnt do enough out here when you compare his European record to Australia.


Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 9:35pm
A nice looking for sure.  Interesting photo of him coming off the truck in his photo gallery!  Bandaged on one side only???

Invincible Spirit:
CropFoalsRunnersWinnersWinsSWnrs (GWnrs)SWins (GWins)
20049686581967 (3)15 (6)
04/05302418591 (1)2 (1)
20058379551309 (3)12 (6)
05/065439234533
200610896611187 (1)9 (1)
06/074627111900
20071117037494 (2)7 (3)
07/08109104411
200811200000
Totals74943126762032 (10)49 (17)
5 of his SW are SH born.
The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 9:35pm
3 Gr1 winners, all NH:

LAWMAN (04c, Gulch, Shirley Heights). 4 wins-1 at 2-from 1600m to 2100m, €1,149,960, Chantilly Prix du Jockey Club, Gr.1, Prix Jean Prat, Gr.1, Prix de Guiche, Gr.3, Saint-Cloud Prix Matchless, 2d Longchamp Prix Machado, 4th Longchamp Prix de Fontainebleau, Gr.3.

FLEETING SPIRIT (05f, Distant Relative, Corvaro). 5 wins-3 at 2-at 5f, 6f to 2009, £569,253, US$60,945, €64,300, Newmarket July Cup, Gr.1, Doncaster Flying Childers S., Gr.2, Haydock Temple S., Gr.2, Goodwood Molecomb S., Gr.3, 2d Prix de l'Abbaye de Longchamp, Gr.1, Newmarket Cheveley Park S., Gr.1, Royal Ascot King's Stand S., Gr.1, Haydock Sprint Cup, Gr.1, York Lowther S., Gr.2, 3d Royal Ascot King's Stand S., Gr.1, 4th Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint S., L.

VALE OF YORK (07c, Halling, Sadler's Wells). 3 wins at 2 in 2009, £38,562, US$1,080,000, €71,280, Breeders' Cup Juvenile S., Gr.1, Goodwood Stardom S., L, York Racinguk.com 2YO S., 2d Milan Gran Criterium, Gr.1, 3d Ascot Royal Lodge S., Gr.2.


The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 10:02pm
He (Invincible Spirit) only served one big book in Australia so it's a bit unfair to compare his results in Europe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Faster Runner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 11:27pm
Originally posted by troppo75 troppo75 wrote:

Originally posted by buckeroo buckeroo wrote:

Just had a look at Yarraman website........Will be sending a couple of mares to him .


Thats plain stoooopid...  he had bad feet and throat issues... he is a breeding risk. You cant seriously support the horse just on a picture or 2 especially as stated no fee has been set.

Use him at your own risk. I cant see the market warming to a son of Invincible Spirit. Even though I like the sireline myself, he just didnt do enough out here when you compare his European record to Australia.


Gee You seem to be worried about this horse being a success.
Speed Confirmation pedigree i'm in
I can see you reason for not using him
You like slow horses that look slow
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troppo75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2010 at 3:17am
A wise man once said to me the best sires come from being great milers. When you consider the best sires of modern times... did they get a mile?

Redoutes
Encosta

I would stick to that theory in choosing a stallion for my mare. Find a sire who can run out the mile. So on that criteria he fails for me. 

I can see a point in comparing to European statistics, bearing in mind Invincible Spirits first crop came out running off of a small first season crop he had a record number of 2 yo winners in his first season.

Australia was slow to catch on in supporting the horse &  consequently he stopped shuttling to oz due to increased insurance costs / risks. Also weighed up in this would have been that his first season stock were not firing anywhere near as good as in UK. Chatswood could never have increased his fee & his fee in UK went up from around 7 thousand to 40 thousand.

'Faster Runner' I dont like slow horses. I just want a sound horse who will run a race out. Not just burn and fade or have ongoing issues with feet or pre disposed genetic issues which may breed on.

Thats 'my' thoughts... you have yours. Good luck with it if you use him.


Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2022 at 4:15pm
I've chosen to post here (there are 2 threads) as the early opinions are well worth reading, especially that from 'nod' our esteemed long standing Kiwi friend & Runfer Wink

The remarkable story behind super sire I Am Invincible


You hear plenty of familiar names around the Magic Millions sales grounds.

It seems like it was headed by either Gai and Adrian and you didnt need to add Waterhouse and Bott, or thanks Maher/Eustace when another was knocked down to Ciaron Maher Bloodstock. Annabel, as in Neasham, was on the charts with a bullet.

Or then there was Vinnie, as the King of The Ring, I Am invincible is known. The $1.9m sales topper, five of the top 13 lots, 44 selling for $23m at an average of over $541,000. Thats Vinnie.

But do you know Peter or Ray? They are the real story behind Vinnie as much as Harry and Arthur, the Mitchell Brothers from Yarraman Park, who have a knack of finding and making a stallion, some from many who would consider bread and butter backgrounds, try Magic Albert or Hinchinbrook, sadly now deceased.

And that was to be the case with I Am Invincible, but some 660 winners and 73 Stakes performers later, Vinnie is elite gravy with the latest Group 1 superstar being Home Affairs.

But it wouldnt have happened without a certain trainer, Vinnies fifth and final one, Peter Morgan, a self-reporting average jockey but widely respected natural horseman, or original owner Ray Gall, the former bookie who lived next to George Freeman (add-in colourful racing identity if you must), who stayed in after rejecting calls to geld him, has since knocked back Gerry Harveys $35m offer for his half share, and knows he wins the lottery every year when the breeding season starts.

Gall and Morgan had never met until trainer John Hawkes, who was handling the high maintenance entire at the time, as Morgan says, didnt want him back and Galls concurs he wanted to geld him then pulled the pin.

Morgan was pre-training for Hawkes at the time, using his innovative water-walker at Whittlesea. It was the first of its kind, self-styled by Morgan at a cost of around $500,000 and now common practice and de rigueur.

Hes an ideas man Morgan. Old school, old fashioned and practical.

He was a heavy horse and Ray wouldnt geld him, said Morgan. (Isnt that a stroke of genius.)

He asked me if I wanted to train him. (Isnt that a stroke of luck.)

But it was more than that Morgan used to trim Vinnies front feet every two weeks. He was a big horse with small feet, I just looked after him and made the most of him, never thinking where it would end up, he said.

Morgan got runs on the board with Vinnie, but never at the elite level that stallion masters and breeders desire but Vinnie was different.

Kiwi stud offers for I Am invincible off the track didnt eventuate when Morgan contacted old friends, the Mitchells and suggested they come look at him. They did and within 30 seconds a deal was done, Gall keeping half at a valuation of $1m. And the rest as they say

I thought theyd fill his books up as a bread-and-butter type sire, never ever thought hed be the horse he has become, Morgan said.

Its amazing really, Ray has been kissed on the .

So, the unheralded Vinnie stood for $11,000 his first year, within four years was $27,5000 then $55,000, then 1100,000, then $192,500 now $220,000.

Not a Group 1 winner, his best was a second to Takeover Target in the Group 1 Goodwood (when race conditions were changed from handicap to set weights and penalties), but his best win on paper win was the Group 3 Mackay Stakes in Adelaide and a Listed Sir John Monash Stakes, each for Morgan.

Its hardly surprising that both say I Am Invincible has been a life changer for the pair of them.

For Morgan, who has battled prostate cancer, bowel cancer, he still has a spot on his kidney and his pancreas but says even the bad days are good and remains a buoyant player on his own terms in the industry.

Like when he had to sell his breeding right in Vinnie after doing my dough on the stock exchange. He saved my life. I was able to get out of trouble and buy a house.

As for Gall: He changed my lifestyle. Now I only buy horses and property.

He is in the Magic Millions 3YO Guineas winner King Of Sparta (by I Am Invincible naturally) and just bought a new pad at Cronulla along with an apartment at Main Beach (in a block where the Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk and former trainer Doctor Geoff Chapman live) on the Gold Coast but insists Gerry Harvey is still trying to flog him a unit after missing out on buying his half share in Vinnie.

KING OF SPARTA RULES THE @mmsnippets 3YO GUINEAS ????@SnowdenRacing1 are having an amazing @mmsnippets Raceday! pic.twitter.com/wVIFBmZK6Y

7HorseRacing ???? (@7horseracing) January 15, 2022

I still let Gerry in with three or four late noms, said Gall, who notes he had been the underbidder on the likes of Subzero, Kinjite and Brazen Beau in the past.

Apparently there was a story on the front page of the Australian that I had knocked back $35m from Gerry and Ray Hadley got on the radio and said something like who is this idiot. Well, Ive got $40m to $50m out of him so far and still got the horse.

But back-up a touch, well a lot really until we get to this part of the story.

When I left school, I bought a trotter off Parramatta Livestock, said Gall. I think I was 17 but you had to be 21 to race them, so I learned how to drive and started breaking in a few.

Gall had a printing business at the time, not like the printing money business that is now I Am Invincible, but he had well known punter and former Brisbane bookie Dougie Forbes working for him.

Married young, Gall turned to bookmaking. My wifes uncle was a bookie at Harold Park, I started off at Kembla Grange and got to Randwick when Robbie Waterhouse got rubbed out over the Fine Cotton business.

George Freeman used to live behind me at Sylvania Waters and we did a bit of business together back then. But I was pretty prudent, what I did learn was to never sell an asset, I was boxing clever, if I laid a bet for $5000 I would put $4000 back.

Then it was on to breeding, you might remember Countess Pedrille or Mamzelle Pedrille in Galls orange and white star colours, but it was the mother of I Am Invincible, Canarelle that turned out to be his best result.

I sold it because I had too many horses, but I remember Trevor Lobb telling me to go and have a look at the foal she produced by Invincible Spirit, Gall said.

So he did and bought it for $62,500. And that was I Am Invincible, who started racing with Toby Edmonds, winning his first start at Warwick Farm before being placed in the Kindergarten Stakes, but subsequently went through Matthew Smith, Clarry Conners (without starts) before landing with Hawkes Racing.


He had bad front feet, you couldnt gallop him, no-one knows how good he was.

Morgan did. He was a beautiful horse, a magnificent looker. But he was always sore in the feet, he was on the water walker five days a week.

The water walker was a throw back to his days with C S Hayes at Lindsay Park. We used to rush them in the water back then and I came up with this idea, he said.

He was working for Lionel Krongold at Talwood Park in Victoria at the time, he remembers seeing something like a muddy channel and thought he could do better and did, building one with clear water and filters doing the job properly.

Not bad for a bloke who was born in Broken Hill and grew up living in a tent in Menindee to its southeast. I left school when I was 13-and-a-half, I couldnt read or write, taught myself to read, I had to.

But there were horses, he rode in gymkhanas as a kid before being put on a train to Adelaide and landing at Semaphore where C S Hayes was at Surefoot Lodge pre-Lindsay Park being born.

There was eight of us in a room, we had double bunks, all jockeys, Johnny Stocker was there then, on the bottom bunk.

I wasnt much of a jockey, probably rode around 100 winners, but for C S I just rode to instructions, he never asked me to hold one up, just told me how to ride it, I woke up after a while, he said.

But he gave that away and went working as a brickies labourer, steel fixer (jobs were plentiful at the time, if you were a steel fixer it was easy, plenty of work) but it taught him how to make things.

There isnt enough room to add in Morgans education that stands him where he is in the industry. There was a stint at Tarwyn Park (where Heroic stood) in the Bylong Valley, living in a house with no running water or toilet but a wooden stove. (He built a toilet and septic tank). But where he learned about follicle testing and rudimentary veterinary work

Then there was a stud with his father, successful trainer Ron, called Paumah, now Lakewood, built on trading horses to Singapore (Paumah is Malay for horse), where Curravilla and Raffindale stood, before going bust and finding a job with David Moodies Contract Racing as stud manager then trading (Blazing Sword) and training in Thailand, yes they had a vibrant circuit there.

But always looking and buying yearlings for himself and clients, including Gall still today.

As with any buyer there is a regret.

I wanted to buy two horses for a client one year. I bought one, Star Rolling, who won at Group 2 level, pretty good, the other, he wouldnt buy, was Zoustar. I wouldnt be here today if hed bought that.

But I enjoy looking at yearlings, the only rule is there arent any, its hard to explain what you are looking for, conformation, a kind eye, make sure they arent ratty, good hips, thats all fine but none of that always works. I had two Vinnies from his first year, both of them won and went in the wind so work that out.

As for Gall, he knows how lucky he has been. Like his now good mate Morgan, they are both seemingly invincible.

Bruce Clark Racenet

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2022 at 4:22pm
I get to the bit about John Hawkes and think how bloody typical. Aussie trainers want to train family pets. 
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2022 at 5:08pm
Interesting story Gay.  Thumbs Up

Talking about Runfer, he had a mate by the name of Bill Birch who earlier on was manager of Mornmoot Stud where Champion sire Century stood.  Bill later worked for a successful owner/trainer in Ballarat before spending time with Peter Morgan and later newer industry entries like Michael Christian, co-owner of Longwood Thoroughbred Farm.  What Bill didn't know about horses could be written on a piece of confetti.

Well Bill knew I Am Invincible well, and suggested to Runfer that the horse would never make it as a stallion.  And why apart from lack of top class Group success?  Well for starters the horse himself, as the article outlines, couldn't cop the concussion of track work and was "saved" by the water walker (and space between runs).  And that was because he was a big, tall, heavy horse with undersized hooves, and as a consequence would be long odds against to produce sound, strong progeny.  

Well Bill got it biggly wrong, and thus Runfer was similarly wrong.  

Who ever said "No hoof no horse"?  Shocked  Big smile




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2022 at 5:21pm
"...Bill later worked for a successful owner/trainer in Ballarat*..."

* Greg Mance, also a successful businessman, apparently loved by more than a few but a relentlessly hard taskmaster according to Bill.  However I digress.  Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 6:40pm
great article - thanks for sharing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2022 at 9:21am
INVINCIBLE SPIRIT, courtesy of Acacia Alba 
“Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined”
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