Thoroughbred Village Home Page. Free horse racing tips at Villagebet.com.au. Contact The Mayor by email: Click Here.
Forum Home Forum Home > Horse Breeding - Public Forums > Stallions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Stradivarius retired
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


OldGill.com.au

Stradivarius retired

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Majestic View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2013
Location: NSW
Status: Offline
Points: 1367
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Stradivarius retired
    Posted: 27 Sep 2022 at 12:07am
Could he have a place in Aust? Need patientowners and trainers but, as djebel has said so often, if his progeny treated as they should could resurrect staying line here and NZ, just like Zamazaan.
Back to Top
TJMitchell View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 17268
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2022 at 1:20am
He'll be siring jumpers in Europe in no time
Time is a flat circle
Back to Top
Kimberley Mine View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2022 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

He'll be siring jumpers in Europe in no time

Two of his sire's best--Baaeed and Cloth of Stars--are out of Kingmambo mares, as is Coronation Cup winner Hukum.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some Japanese interest in him, as a high-class runner from the family of Peintre Celebre (Nureyev, broodmare sire of Kingmambo) who is completely free of Halo.


Back to Top
horlicks View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 9270
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horlicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2022 at 5:20pm
Standing at the National Stud
Back to Top
Ticino View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 4980
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2022 at 10:55pm
Hello,
I spot an interesting connection between Protectionist and Stradivarius.

A look at both Sires damline shows, "Poughkeepsie" is the third dam of Protectionist and the Granddam
of "Stradivarius"!

regards, Ticino
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Online
Points: 56200
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 6:54pm
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Online
Points: 56200
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 6:55pm

  STRADIVARIUS (IRE) Chestnut colt 2014  
Sea the Stars
Bay 2006
Cape Cross
Bay 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Foreign Courier
Bay 1979
Sir Ivor
Courtly Dee
1965
1968
8-g
A4
Park Appeal
Bay or brown 1982
Ahonoora
Chestnut 1975
Lorenzaccio
Helen Nichols
1965
1966
5-h
1-m
Balidaress
Grey 1973
Balidar
Innocence
1966
1968
8-d
14-c
Urban Sea
Chestnut 1989
Miswaki
Chestnut 1978
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Hopespringseternal
Chestnut 1971
Buckpasser
Rose Bower
1963
1958
1-s
16-g
Allegretta
Chestnut 1978
Lombard
Chestnut 1967
Agio
Promised Lady
1955
1961
9-h
1-d
Anatevka
Chestnut 1969
Espresso
Almyra
1958
1962
7-a
9-h
Private Life
Bay 1997
Bering
Chestnut 1983
Arctic Tern
Chestnut 1973
Sea-Bird
Chestnut 1962
Dan Cupid
Sicalade
1956
1956
4-m
2-n
Bubbling Beauty
Chestnut 1961
Hasty Road
Almahmoud
1951
1947
3-n
2-d
Beaune
Chestnut 1974
Lyphard
Bay 1969
Northern Dancer
Goofed
1961
1960
2-d
17-b
Barbra
Brown 1969
Le Fabuleux
Biobelle
1961
1960
13-c
7-f
Poughkeepsie
Bay 1992
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Pawneese
Bay 1973
Carvin
Bay 1962
Marino
Coraline
1956
1957
4-i
20-d
Plencia
Chestnut 1968
Le Haar
Petite Saguenay
1954
1961
20-a
9>
  Ancestor duplications: Northern Dancer 5m x 5m,4m
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
Second Chance View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Status: Online
Points: 56838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 7:00pm
Outstanding galloper.  Star

Didn't realize the National Stud stood hunter sires.  
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Online
Points: 56200
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 7:04pm
Not sure if that is sarcasm but he is serving flat mares.
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
Second Chance View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Status: Online
Points: 56838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 7:43pm
Well he'd certainly need to if he has any chance whatsoever of becoming a successful flat course sire.  Maybe some serious NH bred Exceed and Excel, Fastnet Rock or Not A Single Doubt mares?  Smile
Back to Top
diomed View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2016
Location: Roscrea
Status: Offline
Points: 904
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote diomed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 9:25pm
Stradivarius was bought back for 330,000 guineas by his owner at the Tattersalls 2015 yearling sales (2,109 yearlings).

Then Stradivarius did everything wrong:
  • he won too much money, GBP 3,378,869, second only at that yearling sales to Addeybb, who won only 1/3 of his earnings in the United Kingdom
  • he raced too many times, 35 races, proving his soundness
  • he won too many races, 20 wins, (5 2nds, 5 3rds), but buyers prefer potential over proven ability
  • he is unfortunate to be by a proven classic winning sire always near the top of the UK sire charts.
At that same 2015 Tattersalls yearling sale 29 of the 30 top priced yearlings earned GBP 766,705.  
They cost GBP 25,126,000, or in plain language they race earned 3.05% of what they cost.

The problem with Stradivarius is he is a good horse.
foalmare.com - my thoughts about pedigree
Back to Top
Second Chance View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Status: Online
Points: 56838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 9:41pm
Albeit at his best over 2 miles and further.
Back to Top
diomed View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2016
Location: Roscrea
Status: Offline
Points: 904
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote diomed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 12:30am
From 1912 or earlier breeders know if you put a sprint mare to a staying sire you get an intermediate distance runner.
In the UK, Ireland, France the big money is in middle-distance races.
Send a sprint bred mare to Stradivarius and you are certain the foal will be a middle distance sort, although as in all breeding you can not be sure of ability.
Send a miler mare to a miler stallion and you could get a sprinter, a miler, or a middle-distance sort.

Winning money beyond 12f is acceptable.
Proven ability is a curse, unproven and untried is "commercial".
The definition of "commercial" used by bloodstock buyers seems to equate to "loss-making".

Of the 1,708 yearlings where I found a racing record (or confirmed non-runner) 320 made a profit, 1,388 made a loss (81.3%).
176 never ran, over 10% of purchases.  They cost GBP 18,396,000.  That is a lot of paddock accidents.

The 2,109 yearlings cost 154 million, earned 65 million - that is commercial - the only winners are the sellers, the stallion owners, the auction houses, and the middle-men who take a percentage for buying badly with other people's money.


These are the big earners in the UK from those 2,109 yearlings sold at Tattersalls 2015.

Name Earn_GB
Stradivarius 3,378,869
Battaash 1,585,563
Blue Point 1,377,062
Addeybb 1,235,793
Accidental Agent 745,842
Beat The Bank 600,516
Summerghand 506,738
Best Solution 483,822
Dakota Gold 444,305
Urban Fox 413,316
Gulliver 386,880
Forest Ranger 380,148
Bless Him 311,121
Mehmas 305,953
Fujaira Prince 303,265
Island Brave 302,360
Eminent 270,705
Kynren 256,219
Second Thought 236,359
Ripp Orf 233,356
foalmare.com - my thoughts about pedigree
Back to Top
diomed View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2016
Location: Roscrea
Status: Offline
Points: 904
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote diomed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 12:35am
The last horse in the above list, Ripp Orf, describes bloodstock marketing and the "not commercial" mantra.
foalmare.com - my thoughts about pedigree
Back to Top
diomed View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2016
Location: Roscrea
Status: Offline
Points: 904
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote diomed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 6:39am
I analysed 3,061 sires who have offspring born 2005 or later (74,655 mares).
Only one sire (and that sire's son) matches well with Stradivarius.
I doubt Stradivarius will meet any mares by that sire.  His mares about 1/460 of the large sample.
foalmare.com - my thoughts about pedigree
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 22435
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 2:58pm
Thanks diomed , an interesting read and no beating around the bush ! Wink

Edited by Gay3 - 26 May 2023 at 4:14pm
Back to Top
diomed View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2016
Location: Roscrea
Status: Offline
Points: 904
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diomed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2023 at 2:31am
I am back from visiting the stud where my few mares, yearlings, and foal are boarding.
My last visit was March 2022.
Good news - today I learned a maiden mare who failed to get in foal twice got in foal on the third visit.
Not so good news - the 2023 colt foal has a front near leg that shoots out at an alarming angle.


Last night I was reading Best Horses of the decade 1970-1979 by John Crofts.
There is a chapter on Pawneese, the third dam of Stradivarius.
Pawneese was a cracking middle distance filly. winning the English and French Oaks and the King George VI & Queen Elizabeth II as a 3yo.
At the end of the chapter he states that Pawneese is the fourth dam of Protectionist, German trainer winner of the 2014 Melbourne Cup.
Actually Poughkeepsie, daughter of Pawneese, is the 2nd dam of Stradivarius and the 3rd dam of Protectionist.
Poughkeepsie ran only four times, all in France, all at 2000 metres.

It looks like those similar dam lines in Stradivarius and Protectionist are a source of extreme stamina.


foalmare.com - my thoughts about pedigree
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 55609
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2023 at 11:23am
diomed, re. the colts' leg, check out the thread on I Wish I Win on here. Photo of how horrendous his legs were yet with time & minimal pressure is now one of our best sprinter/milers, some say best Big smile It's a great article too.
https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/i-wish-i-win_topic68993_post1863966.html?KW=wish#1863966  copy/paste
It takes a wise man a lifetime to grow a tree and a fool five minutes to kill one.
Back to Top
diomed View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2016
Location: Roscrea
Status: Offline
Points: 904
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diomed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2023 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

diomed, re. the colts' leg, check out the thread on I Wish I Win on here. Photo of how horrendous his legs were yet with time & minimal pressure is now one of our best sprinter/milers, some say best Big smile It's a great article too.
https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/i-wish-i-win_topic68993_post1863966.html?KW=wish#1863966  copy/paste
Thanks for that link.
It is comforting to read that things change with time.
At the finish line in a race they do not hand out prizes for foal or yearling conformation.

This morning I looked for the camera lead to connect my oldest and cheapest camera to the PC to look at the photos I took at the stud yesterday.
I had not used that camera for about four years.
By some freak the first lead I found was the right one to connect the camera to the PC. LOL

When I looked at the photos I see both my colt foal's legs turn out, the near leg more.
From the front it is like looking at a triangle from the knees down.
He is a feisty little boy, wriggling like an eel when the handler tried to keep him still for a second, and he kicked his mother. 
He never stopped moving.  I think he did not like getting out of bed at 11 am.
The stud owner did not seem too bothered by his legs saying they probably they will come right in time.
The weather is beautiful here for the last week, and will be for next week.
All the horses at the stud were out enjoying themselves, the yearling colts biting each other and  shoving each other around.

foalmare.com - my thoughts about pedigree
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 22435
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2023 at 10:47pm
Nice post diomed, nature can work in strange ways , so the best of good fortune with your youngster , post more often , I'm sure there are others too who enjoy your posts . 
Back to Top
kavg View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3993
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2023 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by diomed diomed wrote:

Stradivarius was bought back for 330,000 guineas by his owner at the Tattersalls 2015 yearling sales (2,109 yearlings).

Then Stradivarius did everything wrong:
  • he won too much money, GBP 3,378,869, second only at that yearling sales to Addeybb, who won only 1/3 of his earnings in the United Kingdom
  • he raced too many times, 35 races, proving his soundness
  • he won too many races, 20 wins, (5 2nds, 5 3rds), but buyers prefer potential over proven ability
  • he is unfortunate to be by a proven classic winning sire always near the top of the UK sire charts.
At that same 2015 Tattersalls yearling sale 29 of the 30 top priced yearlings earned GBP 766,705.  
They cost GBP 25,126,000, or in plain language they race earned 3.05% of what they cost.

The problem with Stradivarius is he is a good horse.
Possibly the best, truest and saddest post ever in the breeding forums!
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world.
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 22435
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2023 at 5:39pm
Without a doubt kavg , 👍👏
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.05
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.092 seconds.