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rusty nails View Drop Down
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Points: 14508 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2025 at 10:01am
Originally posted by HarnessGuru HarnessGuru wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by HarnessGuru HarnessGuru wrote:

Jobkeeper was probably the most bi-partisan major policy in my lifetime. Not sure that can be pinned on Scomo to be fair. 

No bias because imo Scomo also the worst Liberal leader in my lifetime.   


You don’t think the amateur hour implementation which failed to include any mechanism to recoup wrongly made payments wasn’t their fault? Of course it was! Their buffoonery resulted in $40b+ being paid out to businesses who weren’t even eligible. 

It was their fault, sure – but it was also everyone’s fault in parliament. The rules were clearly outlined in the bill, and both/all parties voted it through. No one (parliament, the media, or the community) pointed out the flaws until a month or two later when we were seeing it play out.

So I think it’s silly for people in the peanut gallery to throw barbs about it now. Hindsight is easy. At the time it was a once-in-a-lifetime situation that demanded speed and it provided security to millions and millions of people. Getting hung up on this is stupid. Save your criticism for when they have time and history to help guide decisions. 

You forgotten how Scomo operated?

Everything was a wedge opportunity.
He didn’t actually want to help, he just wanted it to stop being a liability for him.
If he could postpone doing anything, and blame it on the ALP for demanding certain conditions, that’s what he thinks is a win,win.
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HarnessGuru View Drop Down
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E&E if it was so obvious at the time ALP, Media, Community would have said so before bill got passed. If it was so obvious ALP would not have faced scrutiny for 'holding it up'. They would have only faced scrutiny for holding it up if it was minor details they were sweating on. You can't have it both ways, that it was so obvious but that ALP would have also been bad guys for bringing it to the table. 

I'm an accountant. I had to process Jobkeeper and Cashflow Boost. Our biggest concerns in the industry right at the time of the legislation was the easy manipulation of numbers & employees to get access to the schemes. A couple of the most obvious loopholes got closed on the back of accounting industries concerns. I followed this legislation closely and not once did I see anyone with the foresight mentioned to have claw back controls & that it was a failure of the bill BEFORE the bill got passed. Just the peanut gallery acting now in hindsight. What's worse than the peanut gallery criticizing Jobkeeper as a scheme, the even more special members of the peanut gallery pinning it one on political party when it was possibly the most bipartisan piece of major legislation this century.   
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ExceedAndExcel View Drop Down
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It’s actually embarrassing that you’re trying to defend this. Every other social security scheme has provisions for clawing back ill-gotten gains by parties who make false representations (either deliberately or accidentally). The virtually identical NZ scheme which Job Keeper copied included those provision. Keep bleeting on about the ALP voting for it in the interests of expediency, that changes nothing. Ultimate blame for the fact that this was omitted with Job Keeper lies with the people who implemented it which was the Morrison government and we are $40+b further in debt because of it. 

ALP is guilty of agreeing to keep the program going longer than it needed to but that’s where their guilt ends. 
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Whale View Drop Down
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Points: 47329 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2025 at 11:39am
peanut gallery acting now in hindsight.

What a ridiculous statement. It has to be in hindsight, if they knew in advance they would not have given certain companies Jobseeker. And when they did realise their mistake, after the event, of course they should insist on the money being repayed.
Declaration of Independence, signed after The Civil War. Trump said so.
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HarnessGuru View Drop Down
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Whale, if it was so obvious in advance somebody, anybody, ALP, media, industry bodies, social commentators would have picked it up. Nobody it. 

E&E - its still a failure I have said that. Just the hindsight commentary sinking the boot in over 5 years later is so far over the top in reaction it isn't funny. 
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jujuno View Drop Down
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Points: 47076 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2025 at 1:13pm
Now let's discuss Robodebt.
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jujuno View Drop Down
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Points: 47076 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2025 at 1:14pm
 Try blaming that on the ALP.

 
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Whale View Drop Down
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Points: 47329 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2025 at 1:15pm
Huh, I said it was NOT obvious in advance but after the event when unjustified paymebnts were found they should be refunded. Seems a reasonable expectation.
Declaration of Independence, signed after The Civil War. Trump said so.
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mc41 View Drop Down
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Opposition at the time of legislation wanted additional safeguards,they where not considered and legislation passed.


  • Labor (then in opposition) did not get a chance to propose amendments to “Robodebt legislation,” because none existed.
  • However, Labor and the Greens consistently raised concerns in Senate Estimates, committees, and parliamentary debates about:
    • Lack of human oversight (wanting each debt to be manually reviewed rather than automatically issued).
    • Use of ATO income averaging (arguing it was inaccurate and unlawful).
    • Reversal of the onus of proof (debt notices forced welfare recipients to prove innocence, instead of Services Australia proving the debt).
    • Appeals and transparency (calling for better review mechanisms and release of departmental legal advice).
    • Independent oversight (Greens and some crossbenchers pushed for Ombudsman or independent body review).
acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of the land on which we meet and pay my respects to their Elders past and present
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HarnessGuru View Drop Down
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Points: 3856 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarnessGuru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2025 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Huh, I said it was NOT obvious in advance but after the event when unjustified paymebnts were found they should be refunded. Seems a reasonable expectation.
Yes sorry I worded that post completely wrong. 

As you rightly said "it was not obvious", so we shouldn't be panning them 5.5 years later for not including in it in the bill back then. 

 
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