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Advice to run @ 3yo High Chap-Danni Martine |
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niki 
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 Topic: Advice to run @ 3yo High Chap-Danni MartinePosted: 25 Jun 2023 at 9:12pm |
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Hello and thank you for taking the time to read the request for advice
 We are considering stallions for our mare California (High Chaparral x Danni Martine). Breed to race California is a big mare 16.3 She won and placed as a 5yo We are hoping to produce a foal that if it is going to run, will have an improved chance to run earlier @ 3yo (5 years is a long time to wait ...) We like Xtravagant, but do not know if the combination of Pentire / High Chap will increase the likelihood of a late runner like California ... or is that a matter of training? Xtravagant is our likely selection based on type and lines to Blue Peter However we are open to alternative stallion suggestions (qld/nsw/vic) Any advice would be gratefully received. Thank you  |
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Take2
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Posted: 25 Jun 2023 at 10:12pm |
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First off Nikki, you have a lovely well bred mare with the
right credentials to have a lot of fun, breeding her to the right type etc First thing I noticed was She has NO Mr Prospector in Her
pedigree, amongst others, which I will also check out so looking into Sires
with an abundance of Him is possibly the Key One Stallion currently on the up Is Pride Of Dubai who brings one of the hottest lines of Mr Prospector to the party, as Mr P and Sadler's Wells get on pretty good in pedigrees, along with Danehill Pride of Dubai has already got the runs on the board with High Chap Mares having 3 SW at least with them Your preference Xtravagant has no Mr Prospector either, he has
reacts favourably to Mr P in his mates pedigree with I think 2 of his SW (4 in
total) Carrying Mr P , Anyway that’s a starter from me with possibly more
suggestions, I will say that Pride OF Dubai’s appear to need time, and he is a
sire on the up as I said so good luck with whatever you decide to do with her Edited by Take2 - 25 Jun 2023 at 10:40pm |
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change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol
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Take2
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Posted: 25 Jun 2023 at 10:51pm |
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Incidently, Rose Prince, which Mme Germaine Vuillier (longtime pedigree advisor to HH Aga Khan after her husband's death) said was used as a "mixer" in pedigrees that were hard to align ) or similar) is in Pride of Dubai's pedigree (via Princequillo) and hails from Blue peter's family
Edited by Take2 - 25 Jun 2023 at 10:52pm |
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change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol
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furious
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Posted: 25 Jun 2023 at 11:25pm |
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Family of Silver Sharpe, Poseidon, Windbag this was a great staying family. Yet today we see Nicconi sire of Nature Strip as the best one around.
In recent generations you find G1 winners Danni Martine (Danzero/Danehill), You Remember (Gold Carat/Mr Prospector), La Neige (Better Boy/My Babu), Silver Sharpe (Showdown/Infatuation a son of Nearco) and Dr Gaulle Lane (The Commander/Sir Tristram). On that Xtravagant isn't a bad choice. He was a miler and a son of Pentire who has a Melbourne Cup winner to his name. Dam by Zabeel son of Sir Tristram. Second dam by Centaine a grandson of Better Boy. It's a very clean pedigree with only Northern Dancer 4m x 4m. But you do have Nureyev x to Fairy Bridge which has worked very well. Another one who actually did start only once for a SW as a two year old is Acrobat. This is the Fastnet Rock/Sadler's Wells cross which has worked so well in England. You also get Centaine blood and Sir Tristram blood in Acrobat. You also have the Lonhro sireline with Encryption starting ok in Queensland this year. He also has the Mr Prospector blood seen in You Remember but to add to that he has Lomond and Elusive Quality also from that 13c family to cross to Darshaan in High Chaparral and Gold and Ivory sire of the 2nd dam of California. Once again a clean pedigree but this time carrying three Danehill crosses. You can find Nureyev in plenty of pedigrees (usually through Zabeel or Starcraft)
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furious
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Posted: 25 Jun 2023 at 11:27pm |
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For that matter you could even look at Nicconi.
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djebel
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 12:10am |
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reductio ad absurdum
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oldflight
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 10:15pm |
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HI Niki,
You will get much better advise from more learned people than myself. But for what it is worth, you have a mare with some drooling classic lines, however , that has not come to race track performance, reasons unknown and put to one side. This mare has had over 150K of service fees put to her and we know from exposed ability they are late developers, plus the mentioned drive to get them going earlier. People mistake big, for early, this is usually the most opposite of reality, I would be looking for as higher class of Danehill with some supporting Star Kingdom and Mr P as I could find. As hard as this is to say / she is at the moment not commercial / wow / I here you all say but just look at the current Inglis sale. The only way out with a beautifully breed mare, that needs time, is a patient owner who dares to breed outside the square and not free lunches to get her back on track. Listen to some of the people on this forum for unbiased information or take the free lunch, get sold bad advise and be happy with what you have, now is the time to change. As stallion owners know this year is hard and your mare will appeal. Ciao for now Flight |
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Kimberley Mine
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Posted: 27 Jun 2023 at 12:25pm |
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I'm usually the last person here to advise pairing a very fast sprinter with a dour stayer, but this mare's family is crying out for some high-quality speed. She also has an interesting pedigree line in Gold and Ivory that caught my eye. Gold and Ivory is a half-sister to Touch of Greatness, the dam of Elusive Quality and Rossini.
So, with that in mind, take a look at Wooded (IRE). His dam Frida la Blonde, by Elusive City, has produced three stakes horses by Wootton Bassett, all of whom ran early and with win distances between 1000 - 1600 m on the flat, so they're not 100% speedballs. One of them was exported from France to the USA and has since won over jumps. Wootton Basset himself descends from the extremely high-quality mare Key Bridge, who produced Key to the Mint, the sire of Gold and Ivory. This is absolutely a mare line worth linebreeding to. Wooded's grandsire Iffraaj got 8 winners from 12 runners out of High Chap mares, including Gr-1 winner Wyndspelle, Gr-3 Francesca, and winner of over $250k Flash Feeling. Interestingly, he got a 3-time Jebel Ali Mile winner on dirt out of a Danzero mare, and his NZ Guineas-winning son Turn Me Loose's 2nd dam is bred on the same cross as High Chap. Also of interest is that High Chap's stallion son Toronado, who is getting good speed horses, is out of a mare by Grand Slam, by Gone West (same sire line as Iffraaj). Regarding Xtravagant, I think that on paper it looks fine. Zabeel has certainly been a quality cross with High Chap. His best runners so far have been out of earlier-maturing, more speed-bred mares (not surprising with his pedigree) so I honestly don't know what he would produce with a mare like yours. Looking ahead, Encryption up in QLD has both a line to Zabeel via Lonhro and a line to Elusive Quality via his exceptional second dam Camarilla. The family can produce a good stallion, he's reasonably priced, and based on his first crop has some upside. He may be one to watch rather than to breed to this year.
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Take2
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Posted: 27 Jun 2023 at 7:30pm |
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Wooded = double Mr Prospector, Encryption = double Mr Prospector High
Chaparral himself has NO Mr Prospector has approx 79
Sw in Oz studbook (not as up to date as it used to be) from a rough look has
around 20 sw with Mr P in the bottom half and counting 3 G1’s including Toronado I only mentioned Mr P for California because she duzzn have any, like her dad there are so many variations available using him, Danehill is a walk up start for High Chap, but she already has him although not a real good source, nureyev which she also hasnt got, and as mentioned by others, occurs frequently in High C's SW's invariably via Zabeel it never ceases to amaze some of stuff mentioned about Mares being Danehil free etc, danehill is a giant of the breed justifiably, the same piffle would have been written years ago about St Simon ruining the breed because of his proliference in most pedigrees, which coninues on today incidently, Toronado has NO Danehill and has 9 SW with Danehill (incl 1 G1) out of my 20, As I said a very nice breeding proposition, choose wisely Edited by Take2 - 27 Jun 2023 at 7:33pm |
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change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol
www.3rdmillenniumbloodstock.com.au |
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Second Chance
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Posted: 27 Jun 2023 at 8:46pm |
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Reckon Xtravagant is a perfectly good mating.
KM's opinions should always be given credence. As for Wooded, a little bird told me one should be able to get him for half his advertised fee or less.
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niki
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Posted: 06 Jan 2024 at 8:15pm |
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Hello Apologies to take so long to get back - Thank you for all the great advice We decided on Wooded and are now looking forward to an Aug/Sep foal ... a little bit exciting!  SC: Yes, Swettenham have been excellent
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Second Chance
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Posted: 06 Jan 2024 at 8:18pm |
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BOL.
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Second Chance
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Posted: 17 Aug 2024 at 6:52pm |
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Inspected Wooded for the first time last Thursday and was mightily impressed. He's an outstanding individual, very masculine without being heavy. Will be interested in viewing his yearlings at sale time next year.
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Gay3
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Posted: 17 Aug 2024 at 8:07pm |
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I wonder what Niki paid if she did try negotiating as advised.
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It takes a wise man a lifetime to grow a tree and a fool five minutes to kill one.
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Second Chance
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Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 1:03pm |
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Had a couple of quick chats with Adam Sangster and it's pretty clear they're negotiating on price with all bar Toronado. Would be surprised if Niki didn't get Wooded for $16,500 tops last season. And reckon you would get him for less this year given it's his third season.
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niki
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Posted: 31 Aug 2024 at 7:54pm |
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Hey 2ndChance & Gay, it was as said thereabouts; I have elaborated more via PM thank you :)
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