Go to Villagebet.com.au for free horse racing tips - Click here now
Forum Home Forum Home > Horse Breeding - Public Forums > Stallions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Frankel
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Thoroughbred Village Home Page. For village news, follow @TBVillage on Twitter. For horseracing tips, follow @Villagebet on Twitter. To contact the Mayor by email: Click Here.


Frankel

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567>
Author
Message
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2016 at 6:07pm
Frankel is off the mark on the group 1 count with Soul Stirring a good winner of the Group 1 2yo fillies stakes. 

The runner up though looks the horse to follow, She was outstanding. http://www.jbis.jp/horse/0001191589/record/


reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2017 at 6:16pm
Soul Stirring

reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2017 at 6:24pm
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
horlicks View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 8398
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horlicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 6:51pm
And now Soul Stirring wins the Japan Oaks
Back to Top
Second Chance View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Status: Online
Points: 45707
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 6:58pm
Out of the champion Monsun mare Stacelita.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 9:34pm
By Tom Heslop — published 25th May 2017

Tom Heslop takes a statistical look at Frankel's performance as a sire so far...


Last year saw the first progeny of Frankel reach the racecourse, with 30 individual two-year-olds in Britain and Ireland, and never has there been so much preoccupation and pressure surrounding a first-season sire, all because Frankel was, well, Frankel. Prior to Royal Ascot in 2016, Chris Cook in The Guardian perfectly pinpointed the developing phenomenon of chapter two of the Frankel story:


‘To begin with we gawped at the royal fellowship of high-achieving mares who would be, in the parlance, covered by him, their owners having paid £125,000 each for the privilege. The summer after his retirement we were treated to the news of his 95% fertility rate. A year later we marvelled at the fact someone was prepared to pay £1.15m for a gangly-legged foal just because the father was Frankel.’

When Fair Eva won the Group 3 Princess Margaret Stakes at Ascot in July, it took the strike-rate of Frankel’s progeny to a remarkable 53%, from seven individual two-year-olds at that point. But, ten months on, what is the assessment now of Frankel the sire – is he living up to expectations, is he disappointing given all the power and privileges he had, or is it somewhere in between? Let’s analyse it statistically, focusing on his first crop, but also their dams, by means of comparison with other leading stallions, including his own, Galileo.

FLYING START

When they came to the track, Frankel’s youngsters certainly hit the ground running. Cunco, his first ever representative, won on his debut, as did four of his next five. Frankel ended the season with a strike-rate of 40% for newcomers, which is much higher than any other sire in the last fifteen years, albeit from a small sample.

There could be a number of reasons for Frankel’s unusually high winners-to-runners percentage last year: the supposition that he's a very good sire, the suggestion that he sires precocious two-year-olds, the supposition that those two-year-olds were treated differently, or a combination of all those factors and more. Given the focus on all things Frankel, from the stud fee to the fertility rate and the price for a ‘gangly-legged foal’, there could well be weight behind the consideration that his juveniles were more primed and readied to win, for the pressures involved.

The ratings achieved by these debut winners of Frankel were similar to other, established sires. The visualisation below shows the top ten stallions according to the average performance rating of a first-time winner. The top two are Lope de Vega (90.8) and War Front (89.8), about 4.2 lbs better than the ‘normal’ Frankel debut winner.

It’s quality versus quantity. In terms of quantity of first-time-out winners from his first crop, Frankel is out on his own, but their quality was broadly similar to other notable sires, the exceptions being Fair Eva, who ran to 102 on her debut and tried and failed in a classic as a three-year-old, and Cracksman (100), who’s Derby bound, though further afield Soul Stirring has already broken classic ground for Frankel by winning the Japanese Oaks earlier this month.

A further four from Frankel’s first batch in Britain went on to rate higher than 100 in 2016, namely Queen Kindly,Seven HeavensFrankuus and Cunco, all of whom have been seen out this year, but none raising their game greatly as yet.

HIGH-ACHIEVING MARES

Of the power and privileges for Frankel referred to earlier, the power was all his, but the privilege comes from the class of the mares he’s covered. According to Juddmonte's profile of Frankel, '21% of the mares covered in his first three seasons were Group 1 winners.’ The plot below shows a histogram of highest Timeform performance ratings achieved by the mares involved in Frankel’s first crop. Danedream, who produced as-yet-unraced Nothing But Dreams (Roger Varian) with Frankel, had the standout figure, as befits an Arc and King George winner, but there were also as many as five mares with ratings between 122.5 and 127.5.

Also shown on the plot are the highest ratings of mares covered by Galileo in the same year, at a time he'd been already been champion sire five times (out of six year). The median rating of mares covered by Frankel was 109.5, compared to 104.5 for those who went to Galileo. And for a more direct comparison, the median of the dams of Galileo's very first crop was a lowly 85. Those revealing figures show just how privileged Frankel has been.

The next question, therefore, is to what extent does a high-quality mare make for above-average offspring, specifically as a two-year-old. We looked at mares (in Britain and Ireland) with a Timeform rating in excess of 100 who’d had a two-year-old placed, since 2001, and matched the dam’s best racing rating with their offspring’s juvenile high, illustrated by the following visualization: each light blue dot represents an individual two-year-old, while the dark blue dot is the average juvenile rating achieved by all the foals out of any given dam on that ability axis. The red line is the relationship between the dam’s rating and the best of her two-year-olds.

Generally speaking, there is a simple, positive relationship: the better the dam, the better the juvenile. However, the spread of two-year-old performances either side of the line is fairly expansive, showing that given talent is by no means a given. There are obvious reasons why this shouldn’t surprise, primarily the natural development of the racehorse, most of whom race fewer than three times at two, meaning their first season is rarely if ever reflective.

The highest-rated two-year-old in the dataset isn't Frankel, but Dream Ahead, who weighed in with a hefty 129 when running riot in the Middle Park. He was by Diktat (126), out of Land Of Dreams (115), and tops the following list of highest-rated juveniles in the period under review, including their sire and dam (with their career-best figure).

Galileo appears four times in the list above, more of a source for exceptional juveniles than you might think. Minding and, of course, Frankel went on to far bigger and better things at three, Teofilo could have done but never got the chance due to injury, though has since become a very good sire himself, and Churchill is clearly well on his way to a ‘classic’ classic campaign.

Comparing Frankel against the Daddy, his Daddy, is probably not the fairest of fights, not at this stage, but using Galileo as a means of measurement highlights the mountain he has to climb to reach the top as a sire, the way he did as a racehorse, and the primary words of warning out of this analysis is that he won’t get any better mating material than he already has. That said, in stallion terms, Frankel is still a boy, and there’s plenty of time and opportunity yet for him to become a man, a stallion man, and a crack man like Cracksman may make a man of him sooner rather than later.


https://www.timeform.com/horse-racing/features/previews/frankel-performance-as-a-sire-2552017



reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
Second Chance View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Status: Online
Points: 45707
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 9:41pm
European First Season Sire List

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

-

-

-

1

Sir Prancealot (IRE), 2010, by Tamayuz

 

75/31

2/2

1/0

1,051,413

 Stormy Clouds (IRE), $382,152

-

-

-

-

2

Helmet (AUS), 2008, by Exceed and Excel

 

52/15

1/1

1/1

936,301

 Thunder Snow (IRE), $366,606

-

-

-

-

3

Frankel (GB), 2008, by Galileo

 

37/16

4/5

4/0

831,636

 Queen Kindly (GB), $239,126

-

-

-

-

4

Mayson (GB), 2008, by Invincible Spirit

 

49/18

3/3

0/0

746,470

 Mazyoun (GB), $132,324

-

-

-

-

5

Dragon Pulse (IRE), 2009, by Kyllachy

 

46/20

2/2

1/0

716,454

 Legendary Lunch (IRE), $94,376


 
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 9:51pm

Galileo
28-134 21%33231£1,332,197£1,697,436
Kodiac44-218 20%59439£526,285£803,483
Dark Angel43-196 22%47360£598,917£788,549
Fastnet Rock23-97 24%30211£466,855£661,180
Dubawi31-101 31%35167£476,188£633,433
Acclamation33-187 18%38402£330,935£599,985
Dansili19-72 26%26150£466,371£596,473
Exceed And Excel39-178 22%44358£323,726£495,524
Iffraaj19-102 19%24229£328,230£465,928
Invincible Spirit25-144 17%29318£263,485£457,150
Shamardal30-99 30%35205£336,611£453,817
Pivotal32-109 29%38229£236,768£434,839
Kyllachy35-151 23%49350£307,083£434,116
Teofilo22-104 21%27178£290,324£400,103
New Approach25-95 26%32166£276,471£371,709
Dream Ahead16-69 23%22140£195,169£344,842
Frankel17-52 33%1877£224,051£337,059
High Chaparral14-72 19%17113£230,843£306,502
Cape Cross22-101 22%27202£189,436£297,738
Lawman18-122 15%22214£203,802£295,518
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

European First Season Sire List

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

-

-

-

1

Sir Prancealot (IRE), 2010, by Tamayuz

 

75/31

2/2

1/0

1,051,413

 Stormy Clouds (IRE), $382,152

-

-

-

-

2

Helmet (AUS), 2008, by Exceed and Excel

 

52/15

1/1

1/1

936,301

 Thunder Snow (IRE), $366,606

-

-

-

-

3

Frankel (GB), 2008, by Galileo

 

37/16

4/5

4/0

831,636

 Queen Kindly (GB), $239,126

-

-

-

-

4

Mayson (GB), 2008, by Invincible Spirit

 

49/18

3/3

0/0

746,470

 Mazyoun (GB), $132,324

-

-

-

-

5

Dragon Pulse (IRE), 2009, by Kyllachy

 

46/20

2/2

1/0

716,454

 Legendary Lunch (IRE), $94,376


 

Can I ask where you got that from ? 
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
Second Chance View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Status: Online
Points: 45707
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 9:58pm
Bloodhound.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 10:03pm
Thanks.


Watch this effort, Granted only a maiden but still, pretty impressive on debut.

qmfxn44jz7E
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 10:04pm
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
Second Chance View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Status: Online
Points: 45707
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 10:04pm
Just to confirm that was European 1st season sires 2016.

2nd season sires thus far has Frankel 2nd with Helmet 4th.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 10:05pm
----1Rajsaman (FR), 2007, by Linamix 62/61/21/1761,661 Brametot (IRE), $542,6500.0000.00
----2Frankel (GB), 2008, by Galileo 55/233/32/0716,570 Eminent (IRE), $68,0850.0000.00
----3Nathaniel (IRE), 2008, by Galileo 63/152/20/0708,550 Back on Board (IRE), $223,7830.0000.00
----4Helmet (AUS), 2008, by Exceed and Excel 56/172/31/0573,389 Anda Muchacho (IRE), $243,5100.0000.00
----5Harbour Watch (IRE), 2009, by Acclamation 78/220/00/0427,125 Elusive Blue (GER), $35,0470.0000.00
----6Casamento (IRE), 2008, by Shamardal 66/141/10/0387,964 Stamp Collecting (IRE), $51,3550.0000.00
----7Sir Prancealot (IRE), 2010, by Tamayuz 59/200/00/0364,005 Copper Knight (IRE), $87,0090.0000.00
----8Bated Breath (GB), 2007, by Dansili 63/141/10/0354,520 Ekhtiyaar (GB), $50,6310.0000.00
----9Foxwedge (AUS), 2008, by Fastnet Rock 53/161/10/0342,561 Hertford Dancer (GB), $40,6350.0000.00
----10Rio de la Plata (USA), 2005, by Rahy 24/110/00/0315,987 Rioticism (FR), $48,4960.0000.00
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
Ticino View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 4445
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 9:39am
Hello0,
last weekend Frankel had his first starter and winner in Germany (Dortmund): His Name is King's Advice
(Frankel - Queen's Logic by Grand Lodge, 3 year old), the breeder is Rabbah Bloodstock /England,
owner Jaber Abdullah and his  Trainer Andreas Wöhler.
 
regards, Ticino
Back to Top
Swynford View Drop Down
Weanling
Weanling


Joined: 14 Jan 2014
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Swynford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2017 at 8:38pm
Frankel's latest Group 2 winner

Back to Top
Swynford View Drop Down
Weanling
Weanling


Joined: 14 Jan 2014
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Swynford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2017 at 8:39pm
Back to Top
Flight View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Nambucca Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 3897
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2017 at 10:41am
Originally posted by Swynford Swynford wrote:

 
 
Looks like photobucket need to earn a few dollars hence free hosting has gone by the looks of things.  Plenty of other sites that will allow links and host 50Gb for free. 
 
I'll be moving mine soon.
 
 
 
 
“The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence. ”
― V.C. King
Back to Top
Flight View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Nambucca Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 3897
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2017 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Flight Flight wrote:

Originally posted by Swynford Swynford wrote:

 
 
Plenty of other sites that will allow links and host 50Gb for free. 
 
 
 
Make that 5Gb.
 
However the 50Gb storage cost for many is still cheaper than what photobucket would like to charge.
 
“The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence. ”
― V.C. King
Back to Top
Swynford View Drop Down
Weanling
Weanling


Joined: 14 Jan 2014
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swynford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2017 at 9:42pm
Thanks Flight...my apoligies... i had joined the annual subscription but guess they keep wanting more.  I find their site pretty frustrating actually.
Back to Top
Nostradamus II View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Sunshine Coast
Status: Offline
Points: 2621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nostradamus II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2017 at 9:08am
Been using MEGA for a while now, offers free 50GB

Back to Top
Swynford View Drop Down
Weanling
Weanling


Joined: 14 Jan 2014
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swynford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2017 at 8:15pm
Thanks Nostra will give that a go
Back to Top
kavg View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3993
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2017 at 8:03pm
A group double at deauville on Tuesday with Eminent and Lady Frankel winning. Eminent was very impressive on the day with a sustained show of speed running a lot faster throughout than the previous race of older horses including Almanzor.
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2017 at 11:47pm
----1Nathaniel (IRE), 2008, by Galileo 88/343/72/13,441,700 Enable (GB), $1,959,4640.0000.00
----2Frankel (GB), 2008, by Galileo 73/359/107/03,193,679 Cracksman (GB), $780,1690.0000.00
----3Rajsaman (FR), 2007, by Linamix 89/182/41/12,479,001 Brametot (IRE), $1,882,9380.0000.00
----4Helmet (AUS), 2008, by Exceed and Excel 91/315/62/11,516,912 Thunder Snow (IRE), $618,1940.0000.00
----5Bated Breath (GB), 2007, by Dansili 99/362/21/01,154,144 Beckford (GB), $193,7050.0000.00
----6Casamento (IRE), 2008, by Shamardal 95/291/10/0921,026 Paiardina (IRE), $137,6010.0000.00
----7Harbour Watch (IRE), 2009, by Acclamation 107/340/00/0798,965 Rayon Vert (FR), $66,2010.0000.00
----8Dragon Pulse (IRE), 2009, by Kyllachy 71/281/20/0744,453 Aethos (IRE), $64,4140.0000.00
----9Sir Prancealot (IRE), 2010, by Tamayuz 82/320/00/0690,513 Copper Knight (IRE), $100,1790.0000.00
----10Foxwedge (AUS), 2008, by Fastnet Rock 74/221/10/0689,638 Hertford Dancer (GB), $89,5570.0000.00
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
maccamax View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 41473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2017 at 11:54pm
This thread has been a good read ..     Great work.
Back to Top
Ticino View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 4445
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2017 at 9:51am
Hello,
the only Frankel offspringg trained, not bred in Germany Middle East (Frankel - Rose Bonheur by Danehill Dancer) ran a thirdplace in a Listed Race for Fillies at Düsseldorf last Weekend.
 
regards, Ticino
Back to Top
Ticino View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 4445
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2017 at 3:13am
Hello,
Lady Frankel (by Frankel), she won the "Prix de Lieurey" (Group 3) is bred by the German Stud Ammerland and she is a HS of Lope de Vega. Her Trainer is Andre Fabre in France.
 
The Ammerland Stud was founded in 1989 by Dietrich von Boetticher and Breeder Of Borgia/Boreal, Hurricane Run, Lope de Vega, Golden Lilac and Baltic Baroness.
 
regards, Ticino
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 7:11pm
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
acacia alba View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Location: Hunter Valley
Status: Online
Points: 41447
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2019 at 1:06pm
Frankel got his Group 1 winner in the Oaks, ridden by 48 year old Frankie.
animals before people.
Back to Top
acacia alba View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Location: Hunter Valley
Status: Online
Points: 41447
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2019 at 1:07pm
animals before people.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.05
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.