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2021-22 Ashes Series

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Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 8:58am
Sometimes I think maccamax is giving us batting practice. Sending down his feeble lollipops for us to hit for 6.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 8:59am
I see that as going on the positive side of the ledger Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 9:01am
That is referring to not being able to play cricket outdoors - not poor old Macca copping another cheap shot Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 9:14am
I never watch the stupid game ..... I can understand Afros being over the moon over a "batting" average .

     Even the great Don got out when he wanted to.............. Like from serving during WW2.
     His bad back had a miraculous cure in 1945.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

I don't like how he's played the mental health card.

This happened before he took on the test captaincy, suggested to represent the nice, clean image guy, with this skeleton in his closet all along.  It comes out and he is rightly called out for his hypocrisy so he says, "ahh my mental health, leave me alone!"  

No Tim, your just upset because you got caught out being a hypocrite, I'm sure you would gladly have played this series knowing of these skeletons in your closet and been in fine mental order, had your hypocrisy not been exposed.  Remember a couple months ago when Joe Root expressed some reservations of coming for the tour if they had to play in the bubble, due to mental strain of being stuck in the bubble, away from family, etc and Paine's response was, "the Ashes will go ahead, with or without Joe!" but now he just wants everyone to go away and stop saying things he doesn't like because "mental health!"

See, here's the thing, Tim Paine isn't suffering from depression or anxiety or any other mental health condition, it's called shame and guilt, because he knows he's been caught out, the thing with genuine mental health issues is that they strike at any time, it's a genuine thing and people who are struck by them need to be allowed the chance to heal from them, no different to a physical injury.  It's just a shame that people like Paine and others before him play this card when they've been in the wrong so that the scrutiny turns from criticism of the wrong doing to support to help you get better.

Think you are massively rough here.

How can you possibly know what is going on with his mind ?

As you said, Mental issues can strike at any time and I would imagine this coming out when it had already been dealt with would likely trigger issues.

He has played a straight bat since it was publicised I do not see why he should not be given the benefit of the doubt.

Imagine what it has done to his wifes mind. Do you know what sort of stares he is now getting from the general public, from those who probably used to admire him ?

 
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 1:39pm
I get where you are coming from djebel, but I just get a bit cynical when another sports star gets caught up in a scandal and plays the mental health card and I also find it hypocritical of Paine to pull this now when he showed zero support for Root (and others) saying they question whether they want to deal with the mental strain of the quarantine and bubble life for the Ashes tour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 9:02am
Perth Test more unlikely as more cases of Omicron detected in Australia. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 9:09am
Surely Hobart gets its chance to host one. Although Shane Warne is calling for the final test to be a D/N at the MCG. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 9:15am
If it is 3-0 or 4-0 in the middle of January it wont matter where it is, it wont fill the MCG. Take it out of town somewhere to a regional center or Tasmania.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 9:18am
Agree. It should be in Hobart and that’s regardless of the situation going into the final test. MCG gets its chance on Boxing Day. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 9:23am
Does Warne get paid for spruiking Melbourne at every opportunity?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 9:27pm
I think if they opportunity presents, it should either be Hobart or Canberra, my preference being Hobart.

The Tasmanians haven't had a top tier visitor for a test, other than South Africa, the last test they hosted in 2016, lets give the Tassie boys an Ashes test.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 8:06am
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

I get where you are coming from djebel, but I just get a bit cynical when another sports star gets caught up in a scandal and plays the mental health card and I also find it hypocritical of Paine to pull this now when he showed zero support for Root (and others) saying they question whether they want to deal with the mental strain of the quarantine and bubble life for the Ashes tour.

    You are one real ODD BODD Aspro.

    Maybe the Mental problems were the cause of the behaviour that has triggered the extra pressures .   Like the straw that broke the Camels Back .    Petty crap anyway and some are jealous, as they may have seen his credentials, in the pictures he sent to his workmate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 6:48pm


“Whilst I cannot speak about the original decision-making in 2018, what I can say is that faced with the same circumstances and with the benefit of all the relevant information, Cricket Australia would not make the same decision today.

“I acknowledge that the decision sent the wrong message to the sport, to the community and to Tim that this kind of behaviour is acceptable and without serious consequences. The role of the Australia cricket captain must be held to the highest possible standards.”

If he had tried harder, Richard Freudenstein, the chairman of Cricket Australia (CA), could not have manoeuvred his organisation into a more tortured position. The explanation of a change of heart around Tim Paine’s suitability as captain, after the revelation of explicit messages and images sent to a former employee of Cricket Tasmania four years earlier, was not designed to aggravate, but that is what it did.

It aggravated David Peever, the former chairman of CA. Since his departure, Peever has decided on a policy of dignified silence, but the statement was a provocation too far. Peever said the criticism of the previous administration was unwarranted, that Paine had been unfairly abandoned by CA and the decision to encourage him to resign was knee-jerk.

It aggravated David Warner’s wife, Candice, as well, who called out the implied double standards between those expected of the captain compared to other players. “They are basically saying it’s not OK for a captain to send these messages, but it’s OK for a player. As a wife of an Australian player, that is slightly concerning, and it does make me worry,” she said.

Just how isolated the Paine family had become was intuited from a statement by his agent, James Henderson, which read: “Confirming that Tim Paine is stepping away from cricket for an indefinite mental health break. We are extremely concerned for his and [his wife] Bonnie’s well-being and make no further comment at this time.” It chimed with comments from Cricket Tasmania that suggested deep unease with the way CA had cut their captain adrift.

What did the public at large think of all this? That can be difficult to gauge, but my instinct is that a majority would feel that what Paine did was wrong, but that, having been cleared in two separate internal code of conduct inquiries, with which he co-operated fully, and given that the exchange was described as “private and consensual” at the time, he deserved a little more support from his employer once the story became public.

The broader question here may be why governing bodies find it hard right now to strike the right note in their decision-making and public statements. My guess is that, corporate interests to the fore, they are constantly fearful of a backlash, but that they misunderstand general sentiment. They think they know what the public think, but the very nature of public discourse creates an illusion.

Public debate in general, and in cricket especially, has become increasingly toxic. Opinion-makers in the media tend towards definitive, confident positions. No editor encourages prevarication. Social media amplifies the harshest, most extreme and unsympathetic views. The consequence is a polarisation of debate, with the hard right and illiberal left shouting at each other across a divide occupied by what could be called the silent majority.

The majority are more silent precisely because they recognise complexity and are often uncertain in their convictions. They accept that life is messy and boundaries can be blurred. They sense that the road to “zero tolerance” is chilling and likely to lead to greater division. Maybe WB Yeats’s moment is upon us, where “the best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity”.

In the pages of this newspaper recently, the former prime minister Tony Blair urged his party to this centre ground, embracing “liberal, tolerant but common-sensical positions on the ‘culture’ issues but emphatically rejecting the extremes”. Barack Obama, too, has cautioned against the increasingly prevalent call-out culture. “This idea of purity, that you’re never compromised . . . you should get over that quickly. The world is messy; there are ambiguities,” the former US president warned two years ago. Wise words.

As for Freudenstein’s statement, an alternative was put forward by Gideon Haigh recently in conversation with the cricket correspondent of The Australian newspaper, Peter Lalor. With the Ashes in mind, their cricket podcast, Cricket, Et Cetera, is well worth a listen and while they were waiting to record a recent episode, Haigh doodled away and came up with what he imagined he might say in Freudenstein’s position:

“Tim Paine did something stupid in 2017 of which he is rightly ashamed. It need not be said that CA does not condone it: that is obvious. We deplore it. It should not be minimised or trivialised. However, at the end of a thorough integrity process it was found that no misconduct had occurred by our regulations at the time. The board deliberated on the matter and decided on balance that no further action was necessary.

“In hindsight, we may have been wrong in this. We recognise that attitudes have changed, that there is greater sensitivity around interpersonal relationships in the workplace, aggravated by a number of high-profile cases that have left no institution untouched. But, given that, we cannot in conscience try someone twice for the same offence merely out of squeamishness at our corporate embarrassment.

“Since 2017, our players have received extensive education in this area; they understand the expectations and risks far better. Tim took full ownership of his behaviour and has been an exemplary captain and we think the public humiliation he and his blameless wife have endured is sufficient punishment for the infraction. We don’t pretend to be always right in everything we do but we always try to act in good faith and fairness to all and we are dedicated to learning from our mistakes.”

In this alternative universe, one imagines Paine could still be captain, his family less anguished, the general public more comfortable with what transpired and Cricket Australia better thought of. A statement that is humane, wise and recognises, as the silent majority does, that we all stumble from time to time.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 6:55pm
The CA is a seriously weird organisation. If you were bringing in a cleanskin captain straight after the Sandpapergate shame would you choose a second string Tasmanian dickpicker? Not even if you were flying high on the wacky tobaccy.Wacko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 6:56pm
What a f'n beat up this whole thing is
Time is a flat circle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

The CA is a seriously weird organisation. If you were bringing in a cleanskin captain straight after the Sandpapergate shame would you choose a second string Tasmanian dickpicker? Not even if you were flying high on the wacky tobaccy.Wacko

Tim Paine before he injured his finger was far and away the best wicket keeper in Australia. The only one that came close was Peter Nevill and he apparently is too quiet to keep wicket for Australia. 
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 7:04pm
They knew Paine could not bear scrutiny. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 7:14pm
or bare scrutiny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 7:27pm
LOL That tooo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 9:31pm
Thankfully or maybe not, God did not endow me with either a large or aesthetically pleasing appendage. Who knows what kind of trouble I might have found myself in. 
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2021 at 6:46pm
Nothing to do with the Ashes, but cricket related - New Zealand left arm finger spinner Ajaz Patel has taken 10/119 in the 2nd test in India. This is only the 3rd occasion that a bowler has taken all ten wickets in a test innings.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2021 at 6:51pm
Making it even more special is that he was born in Mumbai, the venue for this test, moving with his family to New Zealand at the age of 8.  Perhaps he had family members in the crowd cheering for him and against his team?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2021 at 6:59pm
Noice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2021 at 7:02pm
And I believe the last 10fer before him was also an Indian in India by Anil Kumble.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2021 at 7:22pm
In perspective:

Patel: 10 for 119, Sundries and other bowlers: 0 for 206
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2021 at 8:50pm
He may be headed toward a rather unique and unwanted record, the first player to take a 10 wicket haul in an innings defeat which would also undoubtedly be the first time ever a test match has reached a result with all the wickets taken by players of one nationality!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horlicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2021 at 9:58pm
Won't be an innings defeat as India in spite of leading by 263 have not enforced the follow on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2021 at 10:08am
I mean the T20 World Cup is hit and giggle stuff. Honestly, who gives a sh1t? Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2021 at 11:31am
Wonder how Mr Patel is feeling? 3rd best single innings bowling figures in history and his mate collapse for 62. Very unlikely to challenge Jim Laker's 19 in a match.LOL
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