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2021 Melbourne Cup 3200m |
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Second Chance 
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 Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 8:00pm |
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In terms of prestige? Or prizemoney? Either way I repeat my suggestion.
Dollars clearly had elite sprinters in the Everest rather than the Manikato.
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horlicks
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Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 9:05pm |
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Prizemoney is $2m for both at the moment
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Tontonan
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Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 9:22pm |
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Gee, I have been arguing for a 2000m Victoria Derby for literally decades and just about get run out of town every time I do. The tradition argument is nonsense. If had any merit the race would still be run from the mile and a half start with something like an 80m run to the post at Flemington. Crazy and dangerous. It took them 120 years to change it. If a mile and a half is some how a magical distance then why did the VRC change it to 2500m ? Why have the Americans happily contested their Derby at 2000m, and Hong Kong too - and hey, they made the race for 4 year olds because that is appropriate to their circumstance. The Flemington 2000m start is the best 2000m start in the country. Use it. A somewhat shorter Spring Derby is appropriate to our circumstance. Change it. Tradition my foot. The QE Stakes used to be the AJC Plate was 3 miles before it was 2400m before it was 2000m. 3 miles isn't the appropriate championship distance anymore, it has been changed with the times and it is a better race for it. 'But it's the Derby'... so what ? It was a coin toss that prevented it from being the Bunbury - and the Derby was originally run at a mile before they changed it to a mile and a half because it was appropriate to their circumstance in the 18th century as a test of both the young horses speed and stamina, which is exactly what a 2000m Spring Derby would be in the 21st century. This Sydney vs Melbourne bulldust has to stop. We need a sensible national program. A 2000m Spring Derby in Melbourne and a 2400m Autumn Derby in Sydney makes perfect sense and would enhance the sport nationally to the mutual benefit of all.
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Carioca
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Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 9:51pm |
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Well Tontonan , you have covered my sentiments in a much more professional , expanded and intelligent way , but it won't happen as big Sam said " you know it makes sense " !
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brave_ponies
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Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 10:00pm |
Give the man the top job
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Carioca
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Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 10:01pm |
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Gay3 , can you help us out here , I seem to have dragged this thread off course , so my apologies
 would a change to a new thread like , A Classic Rethink , be possible , thank you .
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Bonjour
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Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 10:08pm |
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The Kentucky Derby is 2000m, it's iconic, a tad more than VIC Derby I'd dare to say, and I concur with Tontonan, it's time for a rethink, it would stir PVL that's for sure.
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Carioca
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Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 10:12pm |
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This shouldn't be about personalities , common sense is the dominator imo.
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Tontonan
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Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 10:34pm |
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I didn't realize I was in the Melbourne Cup thread before I went off on my rant. Sorry about that.
To bring it back to the topic it seems the days of the Victoria Derby being a lead up to the Melbourne Cup are long over. We just don't throw Spring 3YO's into the big 2 miler anymore because it isn't deemed appropriate these days ... and because any weight advantage 3YOs had in the Cup had been greatly diminished. (... which is another good reason to modify the Derby distance
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Magnolian Khan
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Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 11:01pm |
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Race 9 CARLTON DRAUGHT CAULFIELD CUP - 2400 metres: Explosive Jack Stable advised the gelding has pulled up well following the race and will now press on towards the Melbourne Cup. Delphi Stable advised had pulled up satisfactorily and would now continue on towards the Melbourne Cup. Duais Stable advised had pulled up satisfactorily, however would now be sent for a spell. |
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Brudder_A
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 12:38am |
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While I'll abstain from the distance criteria associated with the Vic. Derby. In the USA the Belmont Stakes, last event in the Crown is held at the 1 1/2 mile distance and it has also had distance changes in its history. How about repositioning the Vic. Derby in a different date in the calendar? The MacKinnon Stakes were moved. Rather than culled the distance put it sometime later and give the 3YOs a chance to run the 1 1/2 mile. Surely the Vic Derby can't be 6 furlongs or 10 furlongs? I reckon the 1 1/2 mile test beckons the English tradition of the Derby length rather than just anudder 3YO race.
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Jamal
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 12:49am |
The Sydney vs Melbourne farce is typical of Australian racing. No wonder why i complain a lot. The current model is a joke. Has to stop. Love your input too. Well said.
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Afros
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 7:48am |
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The Sydney vs Melbourne war won't stop until a national, independent body that determines the dates of each race, let's face it it's only a matter of time before V'Landy's introduces a 3200m WFA race at Randwick in early November. Racing will be better for the Sydney spring working as a complimentary carnival to the Melbourne spring and vice versa in the autumn. Having big money races in both Sydney and Melbourne on the same day doesn't worry me as it gives more jockey's a crack at the pie but they have to get rid of the many clashes that see top horses having the choice of a Sydney or Melbourne race as it dilutes the product and ultimately will turn away the punting $$$.
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Jamal
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 10:20am |
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Afros - this is exactly what needs to happen. Im with you on this. An indelendant review into the entire model of Australian racing. We need a national body to govern Australian racing. Not states operating in their own selerate silos which is to the detriment of Australian racing.
Things like races being pumped with massive amounts of prize money to Australian racing being obssessed with speed. Also need to cull some races which are Group 1s - far...FAR too many Group 1s. And people wonder why I am so critical. The evidence is right there staring everyone in the face in regards to Australian racing as a model and as a product.
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Tlazolteotl
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 10:24am |
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It will never happen. That would be like Dan Andrews agreeing to hand over his state powers to Scomo. But back to the Melbourne Cup. It's all over red rover isn't it? Payouts have already started. |
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Shawy38
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 10:59am |
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Sportsbet have paid out $6 million on Incentivise
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Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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Jamal
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 11:25am |
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Im sure Sportsbet can afford it too
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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furious
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 11:28am |
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I find it stupid. DOn't they know he's never been the trip. Has raced for just over a year and anything can go wrong in a 3200m event. The ones taking the payouts obviously know. I think he's got a good chance to win, I want him to win but that doesn't make it gold plated he will win.
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Shawy38
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 11:40am |
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same mob also have already paid out Zaaki for the Cox Plate
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Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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Pardon_My_Dust
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 4:56pm |
Mate I think this is more promotional than anything else. They've paid $6,000,000 for a great marketing campaign in the height of the spring. If I'm looking at all in betteing in the future I'm going to Sportsbet.
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kavg
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 6:33pm |
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Agree Furious,
Same with Zaaki in Cox Plate. But agree with almost everything PMD has said. I wonder what is behind it, maybe they think people will reinvest their winnings plus more on Incentivise and Zaaki in their respective races or back other horses. Not sure, but would like to know the reasoning.
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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Carioca
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 7:01pm |
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Their reasoning may well be they'll get it all back with punters being punters , plus plenty of new accounts.
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Pardon_My_Dust
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Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 8:27pm |
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Bang on Carioca and I never considered that angle kavg, give them the money before the four day carnival starts and let them blow it all on those 20 horse fields at Flemington with every horse set for the race they're in. Literally impossible.
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Shawy38
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Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 9:58pm |
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Harpo Marx (IRE) Based on a report received from RV veterinarian, Dr G. Forbes, the Stewards interviewed Bjorn Baker, the trainer of Harpo Marx (IRE), together with his stable veterinarian, via telephone. Dr Forbes advised that today she had received the reports for Harpo Marx (IRE) from the panel of independent experts engaged to review the diagnostic images required from all horses engaged to run in the Melbourne Cup. Harpo Marx (IRE) had a CT scan on Tuesday, 19 October 2021. The panel of independent experts reported that they held concerns that Harpo Marx (IRE) may be at increased risk of injury due to a lesion identified in the horse's left fore limb. Having received this information, Mr Baker, after consultation with his stable veterinarian, made application to withdraw Harpo Marx (IRE). The Stewards acceded to Mr Baker's application and ordered the withdrawal of Harpo Marx (IRE) at 1.59 pm.
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Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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djebel
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Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 11:24pm |
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I assume Verry Elleegant is going to go to the Cup.
Can not see why she can not win.
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reductio ad absurdum
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speedingaway
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Posted: 24 Oct 2021 at 12:39am |
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Yeah agree Djebel. Thought she was the run of the race today. If she can settle a little closer in the Cup, I'd love to see her bring it home.
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Tlazolteotl
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Posted: 24 Oct 2021 at 10:23am |
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I can see a reason VE can't win - 57kg - she's just not that good. How many mares have won with 57kg or more? VE is no MD.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
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Foxseal
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Posted: 24 Oct 2021 at 11:57am |
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4th declarations for the Cup are due at 10am tomorrow.
So that will make the order of entry a lot clearer.
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djebel
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Posted: 24 Oct 2021 at 12:09pm |
Despite only having the one go and a loss over the trip it is her pet distance. 57 kgs will not stop her. The imports might though.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Tlazolteotl
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Posted: 24 Oct 2021 at 12:27pm |
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I will be surprised if the MC winner raced on Cox Plate day.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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