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Explosive Jack

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Gay3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2021 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Send him to Queensland. It would be great if he could find another race 5 or 6 weeks after that over 2400. But that race doesn’t exist...
As it is he’ll be spelled, resume over 1400 and that’ll stick a fork in him.
Just hope he wont be cooked for the spring. Has had a hell of a campaign and a successful one too.


I fully agree Jamal, having raced at Swan Hill in November (I think that was mentioed above) I'd expect him to have started that prep in August if not before. This'll really test the 'spaced race starts' protocol in such a young, as yet immature horse.
Come to think of it, has the Spring been mentioned by the stable?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2021 at 7:32pm

Johnston dreaming with Explosive stayer


Mick Johnston is no stranger to Group 1 success.

The lucky owner has raced star gallopers including Dissident, Humidor and Tosen Stardom but he’s dreaming that Saturday’s South Australian Derby winner Explosive Jack could be the best of the lot.

After watching the three-year-old claim a third Derby for the season at Morphettville add to his wins in Sydney and Tasmania, Johnston admitted that he let his mind wander to what could be in the coming seasons.

A son of globetrotting stayer Jakkalberry, another talented horse that Johnston part-owned when he ran third in Green Moon’s Melbourne Cup, Explosive Jack was purchased on the advice of Peter Moody at the 2019 Karaka Yearling Sale.

While a tilt at history awaits in next month’s Queensland Derby, Johnston said the long-term aim would be to get Explosive Jack to Flemington in November for a tilt at the Melbourne Cup.

“It’s been a great ride far,” Johnston said.

“We raced Jakkalberry back in 2012 when he ran third in the Melbourne Cup.

“Before he got back into training, Peter Moody rang me when he was over in Karaka and told me he’d found a Jakkalberry colt that he liked and would I be interested in buying it.

"He purchased him, we syndicated him amongst friends and here we are today.

“We always dream, I think it’s everyone’s dream to have a Melbourne Cup runner, let alone a winner.

“Hopefully he stays sound and we can push on with him and get to Flemington on the first Tuesday in November.”

Explosive Jack was purchased by Moody for $100,000 out of the Novara Park draft in Book 1 of the 2019 NZB Karaka Yearling Sale.

He’s out of the Ekraar mare Extra Explosive, a half-sister to the dam of Group 1 New Zealand Derby hero Vin De Dance.

Jakkalberry stood as a stallion for four seasons before he died in 2018 as a result of complications relating to an intestinal condition.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2021 at 7:37pm
Will have been in work 14 months if he fronts up in the MC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2021 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Send him to Queensland. It would be great if he could find another race 5 or 6 weeks after that over 2400. But that race doesn’t exist...
As it is he’ll be spelled, resume over 1400 and that’ll stick a fork in him.
Just hope he wont be cooked for the spring. Has had a hell of a campaign and a successful one too.


I fully agree Jamal, having raced at Swan Hill in November (I think that was mentioed above) I'd expect him to have started that prep in August if not before. This'll really test the 'spaced race starts' protocol in such a young, as yet immature horse.
Come to think of it, has the Spring been mentioned by the stable?


Maybe its best to bypass the QLD Derby and spell him for the spring 
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2021 at 10:11pm
Let’s not undervalue that goldmine of genetics, good old Mr Prospector. Plenty of him in there. 

Edited by Sister Dot - 09 May 2021 at 10:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2021 at 10:15pm
Why would there be any talk of this bloke going to Hong Kong ?

He is nowhere near the type to go over there. 

Stayers have less opportunities up there than they do down here. 
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2021 at 10:20pm
Sorry Djebel, was thinking of Ayrton and he’s a gelding. 
“Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2021 at 10:25pm
You were not the first to mention it.

Mick Kent ( pretty sure ) is quoted as saying Ayrton is the best horse he has trained. He could be shopping for a price...

Mick Price was very open in stating so on RSN this morning. No ifs or buts either.


Edited by Gay3 - 09 May 2021 at 10:50pm
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Balciano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2021 at 11:55pm
Mick was interviewed during the week re Ayrton and said 'When Hong Kong ring, I usually say give me a figure but I just said plain no, not happening. I think he's one of the better horses I've had." Hopefully means he's here to stay.

Re Explosive Jack,  Iqmazing training effort, I'd be more than tempted to go to Queensland. The 3 yr old crop has looked far from outstanding this season, so why not take the chance of a winning a 4th Derby when there's no guarantee as to how he'll measure up against open class come the Spring? They're only 3 once.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 7:19am
There is also the $1.2 million Q22 at Eagle Farm 2 weeks after the Derby, so I'm sure he'd be considered for that as well.

I wonder where he sits in the 3yo of the season ranks now? Montefilia won the Flight and Spring Champion, Ole Kirk won the Golden Rose and the Caulfield Guineas but surely if this fella can add the Qld Derby to his two he already owns he'll win that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foxseal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 4:10pm
Not sure why they’ve nominated for the Andrew Ramsden on Saturday.  He won’t back up surely?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 12:58am
I think Foxy that that was just a back up if they did not go to Adelaide.

I do not think he should be set for the Melbourne Cup this year. He has absolutely no hope what so ever at the weights. I assume that because he has won a few derbies Carpenter will think he is So You Think and Saintly all rolled into one so he will give him 54 or 55 Wacko

It will be a complete waste of time aiming him at Flemington this spring.

Spell him after Queensland, get him ready for the Summer Cup or another 2000m fresh and then go through to next years cup on a better foundation.

He will not be fit enough for the two cups if they spell him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mikey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 8:22am
I disagree.

Genuine 2021 Major Spring Cups horse.
He has earnt 55 kgs and can be competitive with that weight.

Top stable that will make the right decisions to see him being a major player in the spring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 11:15am
Agreed.

If he follows the standard Australian path into the cups he may simply be over racing by the time he arrives at Flemington on the first Tuesday.

He may be the type to keep ticking over racing every 4 weeks over a favoured distance or perhaps a prep like Vow and Declare or Almandin the year that each won.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 12:08pm
Follow the Persan path from last year.
Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 1:26pm
Name me the last AJC Derby winner that ran a big race in the Melbourne Cup? They are usually spent by that stage, many run a big race in the Caulfield Cup but rarely in the melbourne Cup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 1:33pm
Most Derby winners are poorly campaigned/trained after their triumph. 

And before for that matter. 


Edited by djebel - 11 May 2021 at 1:34pm
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hello Sunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 1:58pm
Is that right.
Detail please.
You , as a trainer, with owners breathing down your neck, how would you do it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 2:42pm
Perhaps tomorrow if I have time I will go into it in more detail.

In the meantime you can search through the races history and see where they went wrong yourself. 
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by Pardon_My_Dust Pardon_My_Dust wrote:

Name me the last AJC Derby winner that ran a big race in the Melbourne Cup? They are usually spent by that stage, many run a big race in the Caulfield Cup but rarely in the melbourne Cup.
The whole framework has changed since the date of the AJC Derby went from spring to autumn , spring winners went to Melbourne for the Caulfield GNS. then onto their Derby   as it was 3 days before the MC it was a big ask , apart from Dulcify ( who would have fitted the mould ) Kingston Town maybe , then the champs Peter Pan and Phar Lap and some before , it's a nightmare race for the young winners but Efficient is a standout as winner of the VRC Derby and the MC the following year 2007 , but paid the penalty later with a restricted career due to constant injuries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 11:36pm
Perhaps Djebel could talk us through the wonderful Epsom Derby winners and how they have gone sine their a Derby wins. Those 5hat were not whisked off to stud due to the hoary old cliche of “injury”
Masar
Harzand 
Wing of eagles
Rule the world 
Golden horn
Camelot
Pour moi
Workforce
Sir Percy 
North light 

The list goes in and on


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 12:24am
 Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balciano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 1:54am
Originally posted by Pardon_My_Dust Pardon_My_Dust wrote:

Name me the last AJC Derby winner that ran a big race in the Melbourne Cup? They are usually spent by that stage, many run a big race in the Caulfield Cup but rarely in the melbourne Cup.

Fair point PMD, apart from Criterion a few years back I can't think of one in my punting lifetime.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 10:22am
The Randwick derby I did see was extremely weak and no doubt the SA derby which I did not see even weaker. The form will go nowhere in the spring.
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Perhaps Djebel could talk us through the wonderful Epsom Derby winners and how they have gone sine their a Derby wins. Those 5hat were not whisked off to stud due to the hoary old cliche of “injury”
Masar
Harzand 
Wing of eagles
Rule the world 
Golden horn
Camelot
Pour moi
Workforce
Sir Percy 
North light 

The list goes in and on



Why didn't you put more effort into the list ?

Goldern Horn and Workforce were outstanding Derby winners.

The rest were less than stellar.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Perhaps Djebel could talk us through the wonderful Epsom Derby winners and how they have gone sine their a Derby wins. Those 5hat were not whisked off to stud due to the hoary old cliche of “injury”
Masar
Harzand 
Wing of eagles
Rule the world 
Golden horn
Camelot
Pour moi
Workforce
Sir Percy 
North light 

The list goes in and on
Why didn't you put more effort into the list ?
Goldern Horn and Workforce were outstanding Derby winners.

The rest were less than stellar.


djebel said: "Most Derby winners are poorly campaigned/trained after their triumph. 
And before for that matter".

So the UK winners were ordinary post Derby, despite being well campaigned & trained thereafter but the Oz ones only because they were poorly campaigned & trained Confused





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hello Sunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 3:56pm
And what do you say of this list of derby winners Djebel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 4:32pm
If we go back to the turn of the century and start with Fairway we have had 22 Derby winners.

There are in my opinion differing types of Derby winners Brilliant and dour.

Fairway, Universal Prince, Clangalang, Starcraft, Eremein, Shoot Out, Shamrocker, Dundeel, Criterion and Mongolian Khan I would have as Brilliant horses that won the Derby.

The remainder were either below standard or dour Derby winners.

Do Eduardo had a superb pedigree and was never given the chance to be the stayer he should have been allowed to be. When he was not competitive over 2000m they shuffled him off to stud, which is a common occurrence in the UK as well. 

Headturner had 12 starts after his Derby success for a minor group 3 Brisbane success over a mile. He had to put up with the typical Aussie fortnightly nonsense that achieved nothing.

Fiumicino had a inconsistent but successful career after his Derby success. Again he had to put up with the typical fortnightly campaign. He had the class ( IMNSHO ) with a proper campaign to be competitive in either the Caulfield Cup or Melbourne Cup.   

Nom Du Jeur, I probably under rate him he was probably better than I give him credit. He only had two starts at 2400 or beyond from 12 starts after his Derby win. As a colt there was value elsewhere. 

Roman Emperor trained by the immortal Bart. He probably did not appreciate the typical fortnightly nonsense. His best effort after his Derby success was a second in the Caulfield Cup. He would generally run nice races beaten about 3 to 4 lengths each time over unsuitable trips.

Ethiopia, Won the Derby at his 4th start. On the face of that - A great training effort. Unfortunately the horse and that Derby were less than stellar.

Tavago, Unfortunately injury has probably robbed him of a better career. Probably a very good Derby winner except for unsoundness ? 

Jon Snow, good horse although at his best on a damp surface. Again a little inconsistent and almost certainly because of the typical fortnightly build up campaign.

Levendi, Injury has probably robbed us of his best.

Angel Of Truth, poor bugger has had a lot of unsuitable racing. Throws in a good run every now and than to give hope.

Quick Thinker, There is still hope he could be a Caulfield and Melbourne Cups contender particularly with less fly in fly out imports coming down.

Explosive Jack excites as the most promising dour Derby winner this century. He might be better than dour. Both his Derby wins were brave and tough.

Going through the list it is surprising how many quality Derby winners there has actually been.

As usual though, particularly among the dour types they have far too much racing in unsuitable contests rarely contesting suitable races and by the time they get to a suitable trip they have had enough.

When you bring in the UK Derby winners they rarely of ever get to have an easy race after their Derby success. They are generally facing top class opposition in tip top races. There is very little hiding.

The same can be said for Japanese Derby winners.











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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Hello Sunshine Hello Sunshine wrote:

And what do you say of this list of derby winners Djebel?

I do not have anything to say about those "Derby" winners.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 4:58pm
All I can say is G Williams can train a derby winner .LOL
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