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Inglis Classic 2021 Discussion Page |
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centenarytest
Foal Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 10:25am |
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That you all - some very interesting points from which I've learnt a lot. Fascinating going back through top lots applying some of the points you raise.
The great game now rolls on to who we send the mare to this year! |
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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Good balanced body, good timber. Can't come at that neck. Therefore a pass from me & all credit to the vendor
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Sister Dot
Premium Joined: 25 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 4961 |
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Does that over muscling on underside of neck correlate to the dip in front of his wither? Ewe neck.
Plenty of good points, compact, workmanlike, looks durable.
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“Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined”
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goldey
Champion Joined: 29 Dec 2012 Location: cairns Status: Offline Points: 5940 |
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Nice focused eye , I like his demeanor , I think he has intelligence which helps a lot if he wasn't slightly parrot mouthed , he would probably be more sought after , in the end looks mean little, looks don't win races , head ,heart,lungs ,wind assage , count for a lot and that is hard to see from a photo , he seems balanced on his feet , nice shoulder angle match's well with pastern angle , stifle a tad straight .
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45764 |
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Not at all excited about him to be honest, no neck, walk all over the place, tubby, not real athletic. Probably biased because I also can't hack Unbridled's Song down-under let alone Excites and Danewin as broodmare sires.
So hearty congrats on getting $160k for him largely on the basis of his very nice page.
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Kimberley Mine
Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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My first impression of the photo and video was, in engineering terms, "fit for purpose." His conformation is functionally adequate for his intended job of running fast. ("Adequate" is not a dirty word. ) In the walking video, when viewed from behind you can see his right hind leg swinging out to the side of his body. He's not paddling in-then-out, the foot goes under the body and lands wide. It's hard to tell anything from the head-on video because he's not going straight for the camera. He MIGHT be paddling in a little bit with the left front -- again, that may be an illusion from the camera angle. He has some undermuscling on his neck. Training will address that. His neck attachment itself looks fine, so I'm going to ascribe this to an untrained baby not using its body like a well-trained older horse will do. Finally, as one would reasonably expect with both Storm Cat and Unbridled's Song in his pedigree, he has a very large shoulder even as an immature horse. This isn't a bad thing, but it is a thing to be aware of. It won't make a different on race day with minimalist jockey tack on. In training, having people be mindful about saddle fit (especially as his topline develops) will make him a happier horse. Functionally adequate conformation on a well-bred, early-looking colt -- nicely done, hope his new owners are happy with him.
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centenarytest
Foal Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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G'day all - I must say I have learnt a stack from this forum. Highly insightful and very much appreciated
May I please ask one more round of 'what do you think' with lot 347 (Churchill x Storm Siren). I part bred the colt along with another member of the T'Bred Village team (her name is Storm Siren too, not to be confused with the mare). https://inglis.com.au/sales/info/2021+Classic+Yearling+Sale/catalogue/347 Again, I appreciate all the replies. Some very knowledgeable people lurking here |
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Shrunk in the Wash
Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
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Anyone know why this was withdrawn by willow park?
Lot 362: Spirit of Boom/Takanori |
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16916 |
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Thanks a bunch. Very much appreciated.
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Time is a flat circle
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Kimberley Mine
Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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Watch the video and freeze frame at :20 when you're looking at the head on shot. Then draw a line from its chest straight down through the middle of the knee. It's noticeably offset in the right front (left side of the image). When you're looking at its hind end, freeze frame and you can see that the right hind is rotated outwards. Both hind legs are coming down "square enough", and even taking the offset leg into account the front legs are close to square/not terribly base narrow. That means its chest has started to fill out. In the side-on view, if you draw a line straight up through the groove in the cannon bone between the bone and the tendon, and extend that line all the way past the topline, there's about a hand's-breadth between that line and the start of his withers. That is a quick-and-dirty way to see if a horse will be really heavy on the front end...the closer the withers are to that line = more weight of the horse is in front of the forelegs = that horse will have a harder time getting off the forehand. This yearling will need training to carry itself (like all horses), but it will have an easier time of it than, say, Storm Cat (on him, the line hits right where his neck joins his withers). It has a nice energetic walk and seems to have a reasonable disposition. Despite being obviously bothered by flies, it was still paying attention to the handler. I like him. Hopefully he's a good runner for his new owners and everybody goes home happy.
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16916 |
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All eyes better than mine SC, cheers
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Time is a flat circle
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45764 |
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Well will slip in and say Lot 477 appears heavy topped in the still shot particularly as he'll grow more up front, but then not so much in the parade video. Would also like to have seen more of his walk from front on, however he possibly doesn't actually know how to walk just yet. However in essence I very much like him.
Now for the possible alternate impressions...
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21826 |
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Thanks for your input Kimberley Mine , greatly appreciated , just as an aside I haven't set foot at a yearling sale since March / 85 , I've become soo rusty.
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16916 |
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If not too much trouble could I get you to run your eye over 477 Kimberley Mine?
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Time is a flat circle
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Kimberley Mine
Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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Merchant Navy and Russian Revolution aren't getting much love, Astern really needs some friends, and Xtravagant foals are a hard sell. But man, anyone who bred to Almanzor must be pretty happy right about now.
Carioca, a comment to add to the above: when I watch the head-on and tail-on walking videos, I expect untrained babies to walk like a bunch of drunk ducks. They're too busy looking at things, fiddling with their bits, front end going one way while hind end goes another, etc. What I'm looking for is, are there things that are repeatable? With the 336 filly, I could see that right rear leg action in 3 different angles. With the 450 colt, same thing, I could see it coming and going.
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Kimberley Mine
Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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He is slightly camped under, and in the video (but not the conformation photo) his shoulder appears a shade upright. If you watch the walking video in head-on and tail-on shots, I note that at least 50% of the time his right hind foot is swinging inward and closer to the left front. In the 360 view, it appears that his right hind leg is rotated toe-out from the hock. If so, that would explain the swinging inward: that's where that foot needs to go to land facing "forward." I also note that compared to some other horses this board has discussed, he's not swinging his hind legs under him as much as the higher sellers. I picked #228 as one I liked, and swinging his hind legs under him is a big reason why: Watch how his hind feet are coming down almost on top of the squashed grass left by his front feet, and he does that almost every stride. Colt #450 only does that about half the time. Finally, Colt 450 is *really* base-narrow both in front and behind. This is pretty common in baby horses (see my comment about The Big Thicc Lad being base-narrow in front), and usually as a horse matures and its chest/hinds broaden, its will get a more square stance. Because this horse is so narrow both in front and behind, that suggests that it will need a bit more time to mature. Again, as with the 336 Russian Revolution filly, I see some faults that will need management but I don't see anything he shouldn't be able to run through. Selling for $80k off a listed $60k fee, not passed in but an outright sale, means whoever bred him saw that as a fair value for him too.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21826 |
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Maybe on 2 look hocks could be borderline fwiw.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21826 |
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Kimberley Mine if you have the time could you give your appraisal of Lot 450 aZoustar colt bought by George Moore for 80K , I think it's a steal and I would have put him in my comp. only I have 2 Zoustars and I've broken my rule tumbling into one stallion , thanks.
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Kimberley Mine
Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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Yes, but...the three top prices so far are out of mares with the weakest pages of the ones who are selling. And two of three of those yearlings were consigned by the same group, and part of the ownership group of one of them is a hedge fund. Shenanigans.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45764 |
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Off to Honkers which probably won't help.
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Kimberley Mine
Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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Agreed. I think he's going to be a horse who needs a lot of work to stay race fit, which isn't necessarily a problem with the right training programme.
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16916 |
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One word. Shaquero.
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Time is a flat circle
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21826 |
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Good , 250K I'm happy with that , no doubt the circumstance of the ring atmosphere would have perked him up , he will lose that " puppy fat " at the breakers lol , good luck to the buyer/s , like I said you could buy a lot worse.
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Kimberley Mine
Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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Sold for $250,000.
He looked much more on-his-toes in the ring video feed than in his walking video, and he's still a big thicc lad all over.
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Kimberley Mine
Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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Our big thicc lad #575 in the ring now
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Kimberley Mine
Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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That should be, the Choisir sold for 30% less, not 305 less. Duh.
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Kimberley Mine
Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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The sales figures for Shalaa are...interesting.
Lot 291, with no stakes winners until the 4th dam, sold for $230,000, while Lot 96, a Choisir half-sibling to a Gr-3 winner/Gr-1 placed filly out of a Zabeel mare sold for 305 less at $160k. Lot 394, with no black type at all until the 3rd dam, sold for $220k, whereas Lot 393 by I Am Invincible out of a stakes-producing half sister to a Gr-1 winner sold for "only" $180k. Lot 42's 3rd dam is Singles Bar BUT there's no unrestricted black type until the 3rd dam. Other than the two Benetau foals, everyone in this branch of the family are Hondas running at mid-tier tracks, not the kind of horse you'd expect to sell for a Jaguar price. She sold for $200k, the same price as Lot 590 (by Snitzel out of a Gr-2 winning NZ mare). Those are Shalaa's top three sellers. It's hard to shake the feeling that he's being pumped by some big money despite the fact that he only has two winners to date.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45764 |
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Lot 492 Zoustar - Blazing Snitzel colt offered by Newgate. City wining but limited dam has two ordinary winners to date.
Knocked down for $425k to Newgate and others. Nonsense really.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Well der... Thanks, I can be a bit of a dipstick...
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Thanks furious. Not sure why that did not do that for me originally.
He is not doing too badly. The only problem with those figures is he is not buying for one conglomerate is he ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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