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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45716 |
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Posted: 23 May 2020 at 5:16pm |
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Well she's being sold, though could well be put back into work in 2020/21.
But presuming she goes to the breeding barn, how about making some suggestions on: (a) which stallions would suit her best; and (b) what stallions will she actually visit?
Over to you...
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Majestic
Champion Joined: 23 Mar 2013 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 1303 |
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My opinion, two stallions that seem to compliment most bloodlines and also seem to upgrade them, possibly hard to do with a Gp1 mare, areI Am Invincible and Snitzel. Haven’t looked at computer matching programs. No better two stallions for percentage of producing winners and SWs. I look forward to other opinions.
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VSP.
Premium Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 8337 |
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She will probably be bought for a squillion to go to and help promote some overhyped new stallion with no runs on the board - owner either by Coolmore or Newgate.
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www.snowshoecats.webs.com
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51994 |
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I haven't checked pedigrees either but am wondering if So You Think might complement her speed and add a little more distance potential. He certainly throws quality conformation as well as athleticism.
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Majestic
Champion Joined: 23 Mar 2013 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 1303 |
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My worry is, as VSP stated, Magnier or Messara will buy her. Mitchell’s rarely buy quality Gp1 mares so IAI could miss out. Anthony Miffen for Starspangledbanner? Too dear !!!!!!!! Widden Wonder Boy ??????
So close to breeding season, if I was the owner, she would be served and PTIF to IAI and put on the market. At least $2M if not more. Snitzel could be losing some gloss, even with current Sires Premiership in the pocket. What do you think?
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45716 |
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Have a short list of about half a dozen possibles.
Don't believe you'd want more Danehill close up. Snitzel for instance gives you him 3 x 4 x 5, two of them via Redoute's Choice 2 x 4. Bit close for mine. Am with Majestic re proven sire I Am invincible. Mostly
sprinting stock but has plenty of stakes-winners over 1400-1600m. Pedigree match appears fine in its
simplicity:
Danzig 4 x 5, 5; four lines of Star Kingdom (three via Bletchingly 4 x 5, 7 in turn via Canny Lad on two occasions 3 x 6.) Furious might talk to the locally bred duplications and
possible inheritable faults, though both sire and dam were pretty sound before
McEvoy arguably pushed the mare too far. More later after others have had a go. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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They’ve certainly tried to stay in the pocket with the immediate family over the years. Besides Zoustar’s headline act, can we take anything from the attempts to add Sebring into the equation? What was he supposed to bring to the party & where else can in be found?
I’m usually in the camp that thinks there’s never enough Vain. At least with Sunlight, there are a couple of Wilkes’ daughters in the mix through Meteor Mist, so a maternal Vain influence, say Written Tycoon or All Too Hard, might spark something? I’m also a Last Tycoon fan, so I’d have Merchant Navy on the shortlist as well. |
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Shrunk in the Wash
Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
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I’m with you Red Hare. Never enough Vain. what of the impact of Bletchingly in her pedigree?
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45716 |
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It’s interesting that you appear to implicitly bag Sebring as a possible match RH. FWIW I believe the match has definite attractions, such as his: ·
proven sire record; ·
ability to get winners over most distances
including Classic performers; and ·
attractiveness from a line breeding perspective,
in particular the cross of superb broodmare Rolls. Admittedly it brings in three (sex balanced) strains of
Danehill, but back at 4 x 4, 5. And you also suggest All Too Hard which is equally interesting as the pedigree profile that results is extremely similar to that with Sebring, except that ATH introduces more Vain. Cheers.
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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That's a really weird take on what was posted.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45716 |
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Well I've apparently misunderstood, so would appreciate if you could explain what you meant by posting ".. can we take anything from the attempts to add Sebring into the equation? What was he supposed to bring to the party & where else can in be found?"
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45716 |
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But moving along, here are some others that I either thought might match up - acknowledging that some quite rightly wouldn't be considered by the new owners: ie Impending, Brazen Beau, Russian Revolution and Invader.
I really fancy Impending, but wouldn't go there until he'd proved himself. No Danehill, but crosses of Encosta, Canny Lad, Mr P, Bletchingly and Vain (for those who like him as do I). The no Danehill means that any stallion or mare that results can either host or visit any number of the multitude of horses with Danehill blood without over egging the cake. Exactly as would be the case with my first choice I Am Invincible. Not that all that many appear would to look a generation forward when planning matings. But again over to others to provide opinion, even it might be to seriously question my suggestions.
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Progold
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3212 |
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Interesting to read Red Hare's comment that Vain "might spark something." Given that Sunlight was a pure speed machine from a pretty good family, I don't know if there was a missing spark that we should be looking for. Speed on speed would not be the strategy that I would be looking at. Interestingly Causeway Queen won to 2100m and the family traces back to a GB mare called Bunfeast who came out around WW1 and immediately produced Royal Feast who won the VRC and AJC Sires' Produce. A few generations later we see the family visiting stallions like Dhoti and Comic Court although with relatively little success. For me, it would be proven stallions like Lonhro, Pierro or even So You Think that look to have plenty to offer as part of a long term strategy.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45716 |
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Doesn't really matter now. Appears I've been living in a cave and wasn't aware or couldn't remember that Sebring had passed.
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Kimberley Mine
Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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You're not the only one thinking Halo, although I was thinking more a Deep Impact son than a son of Sebring or More Than Ready. In no particular order.... Since she has two crosses to Redoute's Choice and no Sir Tristram, Dundeel or Pierro. Lonhro -- not so much, he's not likely to bring some stamina to the mating. Thinking outside the box: Savabeel. I Am Invincible because he upgrades pretty much every mare he sees and his dam is by Canny Lad. Written Tycoon is interesting. No Danzig but he does Noholme, Marscay, and Vain. This cross would be all speed, however he's one of the best outcross stallions in Australia for Danehill. So You Think for a cross to High Chaparral. I like Dundeel better for a High Chap son. One more outside the box: Ocean Park. Although it took him a few years to hit his straps, it's notable that he produces with mares from just about any broodmare sireline. And that's pretty much it for proven sires in her league with no Danehill. |
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41479 |
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Appears I've been living in a cave and wasn't aware or couldn't remember that Sebring had passed. I must have been in the same cave ! That was kept very quiet I think ? I saw nothing in the general run of things, and none of ours here posted . Did they ??
What happened to him ?
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animals before people.
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Dizzy
Premium Joined: 17 Sep 2013 Location: Canberra Status: Offline Points: 16853 |
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Sebring had a heart attack Feb 2019.
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Ticino
Champion Joined: 20 Oct 2008 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 4445 |
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Hello,
I wasn't lookuing so deep in Sunlight's ped. My suugestion would be a Sire with Machiavellian in his ped. He is from the same damline as Danehill, but via a different strain. Zoustar is by "Northern Meteor", a very Close inbred sire from the Dalmary Family. On the other Hand "Solar Charged" carries none of them, so Sires with Sadlers Wells/Nureyev/Perugine etc. comes to mind. An interestiong mating would be with the promising 3 year old colt "Palm Springs" (Maxios-Panatella by Medicean) here in Germany.; because he is 3x3 Machiavellian/Coup de Genie FB/FS. I knew, it's very very hypothetical. A bit of topic "Star Shower" carries the Germanbred Sire "Novalis" (from Owen Tudor). regards, Ticino |
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Ticino
Champion Joined: 20 Oct 2008 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 4445 |
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Hello,
as example "Lope de Vega" is 3x3 Machiavellian: regards, Ticino
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45716 |
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So what do people think about the Justify match?
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51994 |
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I thought it simply a case of 'best to best' &/or market aimed, as I did with Invincibella I guess hype always sells well, so probably good econimic decisions.
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45716 |
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I'm along this line of thought also, with Impending and Pierata also at the forefront. Ok they were both best at about 1300m, however believe the strong Lonhro/Octagonal/Zabeel strength might well come to the fore in their well matched progeny. But reckon you could bet your last dollar that Sunlight will visit Pierro sooner rather than later.
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25165 |
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With a mare like this it's just not good enough to go to the second tier. Coolmore have bought her and others to go to Justify. Yes not my first choice for her either but his Nijinsky blood at least offers some cross for Redoute's and Ogygian (sire of the dam of Johannesburg) is from the same female line as Sunlight herself but is closer to Fappiano (in Zoustar) with them both decending from Plucky Liege.
As she is going to Coolmore there is always the chance she will also visit Pierro or So You Think sometime in the future. While I think Snitzel is to close for the Redoute's cross. Also I'd prefer he go to Justify (who's sire was much better) than Amerian Pharoah even though Pioneerof Tee Nile is from the sire line of Fappiano which could be interesting. But that mating will also probably be on the cards in the future.
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25165 |
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I forgot to say that I also love the I am Invincible cross but that seems highly unlikely now.
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Take2
Champion Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5297 |
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i think you might be on the money there ticino with the sadler's wells - nureyev suggestions, also your machiavellian /coup de folie thoughts , let's hope that they dont waste her as happens so frequently with great racemares, and like always all most of us can do about her is drool and dream
Edited by Take2 - 07 Aug 2020 at 1:57am |
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change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol
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