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Russian Camelot

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Shrunk in the Wash View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by Shawy38 Shawy38 wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Shawy thats not true. Not all horses with an ounce of ability end up in Asia. You need to be more specific.


Are you serious



Well Winx didnt go to Asia, neither did So You Think. Lots of horses with in your words "an ounce of ability" have stayed in Australia.



 

Well, Jamal, it’s clear you’re just playing semantics 
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Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 3:31pm
What was the best performed Australian horse ever sold to HK? Best performed in Australia.
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 3:43pm
Beauty Generation goes 👍 

To be trained next by Hayes as per racing.com


Edited by Gay3 - 10 May 2020 at 3:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:



“There’s probably a good case for saying in the spring he could win a big race at the mile or certainly a mile and a quarter, he probably does have that little bit more versatility than Vow And Declare.”



I don't know the name of the program nor science but Dan referenced it this morning on RSN in saying Vow & Declare tests more dour than RC,who has a much sharper profile.
He could quite conceivably have the Cox Plate in mind.

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lopartega Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 4:12pm
The science refers to specific gene groupings found in thoroughbreds. Sprinters (1000mts-1400mts)have in general a CC grouping. Middle distance horses (1600mts-2400mts) have a CT grouping and stayers (2400+) have a TT grouping. Vow and Declare has a TT and Russian Camelot a CT. Of course this isn't an exact science so variances will always occur
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 4:19pm
sadly my horses have had a eeyore eeyore rating🥵
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 5:30pm
That’s two examples Jamal

Look at the hundreds that are exported every year

Take your blinkers off
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 5:33pm
Suspect we might be drifting off topic.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Summer Regent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 5:59pm
According to Dominic Beirne, the 122 Timeform rating for Russian Camelot includes 10lbs differential Southern-Northern Hemisphere, which makes it less impressive than at first glance.

Still, an amazing win, very impressive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

Ramadan equals dalasan, damn autocorrect!

It was a timely mistake though kavg.  I thought you might have been getting hungry.  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 10:02pm
It was timely tontonan. Just hope the feds aren't tracing me😀
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 4:37pm
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 4:58pm
Angel of Truth got 53.5kg
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 5:03pm
Jon Snow 54.5kg
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 5:06pm
Tavago 54.0kg
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 5:40pm
First up I got it wrong and this is a smart staying prospect.

And this will be the test for Carpenter and his allocation structure. The last decade has seen adjustments being made for the older Australian and New Zealand horses as well as the Northern Hemisphere 3yo's but he has kept the classic winners virtually the same.

RC's 103 rating for that win, means he still needs at least 10 pounds improvement to get anywhere near a placing in the cups, so that should mean he automatically gets 54 kilos as a foundation.

He should then get the allowance, whatever that is that Carpenter has allocated for a northern hemisphere 3yo, so that to me looks about 2.5 kilos, so that gives him 51.5kgs.

Now I would say that the 2.5 kg allowance has an allowance for the fact that the northern hemisphere 3yo's need to actually get here to Australia, (so they get a weight invitation to come), so I will add a kilo for that and for me that gives him 52.5 kgs.

Anything above that and Carpenter needs to hand over the weight allocations for the cups to a younger person who is not stuck in the past when it comes to Australian classic winners.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Summer Regent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 6:00pm
Daniel O'Sullivan at BetSmart reckons 53kgs. 

He had RC at 103.5 WFA performance for his SA Derby "a very exciting horse but still has steps to make ... is not yet elite". FWIW he had Quick Thinker 102.5 and Warning 102 for their respective Derby wins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 6:05pm
But if his  rating is based on a performance without a NH allowance why should he get one for his MC weight? If you do that you aren't really basing the handicap on the performance.
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 6:30pm
Greg Carpenter will be on racing.com at 6:30 to discuss the likely weight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 7:16pm
We can read what's directly above Unhappy

It will be around 53.5 - 54.

Of course it all depends on entries.

Edited by Gay3 - 11 May 2020 at 7:32pm
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 7:40pm
The colt doesn't necessarily need to settleback, as evidenced when he sat on the pace at Pakenham before blowing them away (admittedly ordinary gallopers) by 7.

Suspect the Caulfield Stakes and Cox Plate will be his prime aims in the Spring, with the Melbourne Cup a possible but secondary consideration.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Greg Carpenter will be on racing.com at 6:30 to discuss the likely weight.


What did he say?
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 12:13pm
Haven't watched it yet, but here is the link to a replay.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 2:41am
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 4:07pm
SPRING CARNIVAL

What genetic testing tells us about the 2020 Melbourne Cup favourite

What genetic testing tells us about the 2020 Melbourne Cup favourite
Russian Camelot. Photo: AAP
Ben DorriesArticle Author
Ben Dorries

Danny O'Brien has revealed that genetic testing on his Melbourne Cup favourite Russian Camelot shows he could be best suited over a middle distance range rather than the extreme staying test of the 3200m Cup.

Newly turned four-year-old Russian Camelot is one of the most exciting up-and-coming gallopers in Australia and got everyone sitting up and taking notice when he blew them away in the Group I South Australian Derby (2500m) in May.

Corporate bookmakers Sportsbet and Ladbrokes both have the son of Camelot as the $10 Melbourne Cup favourite.

However it's interesting to note what genetic testing has revealed about Russian Camelot.

Just like OBrien did in the journey towards Vow And Declare becoming the 2019 Melbourne Cup winner, among the tools he uses in trying to identify the best races for his horses is a speed-gene test developed by Irish equine science group Plusvital.

He sends vials of blood to Ireland for tests which analyse a horses DNA to establish the best distance at which it should race.

It has shown Russian Camelot to be in the C:T category - horses who perform best in the 1400m-2599m range yet under-perform at trips over 2600m or longer.

O'Brien will learn more about Russian Camelot in the early stages of the spring (he is set to resume in the Group I Makybe Diva Stakes (1600m) at Flemington on September 12).

However the genetic testing could help frame his thinking in terms of a spring program.

"He's a C:T so he's the middle distance category which means up to 2400(m) is probably their best distance," O'Brien said.

"He is probably at his best at 2000-2400(m) whereas Vow And Declare is T:T which is the extreme distance category.

"At up to 2400(m), Russian Camelot might have more capability than Vow And Declare but beyond 2400(m), Vow is more genetically predisposed than Russian Camelot at those distances."

Asked whether that could mean the Cox Plate at 2040m, in which Russian Camelot is currently an equal $11 favourite, was a more likely spring goal, O'Brien replied:

"We are hopeful that he is good enough for a Cox Plate.

"The horse has only run five times and I don't recall a South Australian Derby winner bouncing out of that and winning a Cox Plate in recent history, certainly in my lifetime.

"He hasn't got a Cox Plate profile as yet.

"People are rightly excited about the horse because he's lightly raced - the graph he is on at the moment is heading upwards, but he's got to keep that trend going to even contemplate going towards a Cox Plate.

"We will all know pretty early in the spring.

"He will run in the Makybe Diva and then more than likely the Turnbull Stakes so those two races are usually really good guides to the rest of the spring.

"I will know, the owners will know, the public will know and the press will know - everyone will know what the best way is to head with him after those two starts I'd imagine.

"If he can win or run very well in either or both then we will probably run him (in a Cox Plate) otherwise he has got Handicaps he can fall back into."

O'Brien was delighted on Friday when he took Vow And Declare and Russian Camelot, who rarely work against each other, for a gallop between races at Geelong.

While a Melbourne Cup defence is the ultimate aim for Vow And Declare, it will be fascinating to see whether Russian Camelot could potentially chase a Cox Plate or also target the Caulfield Cup and Melbourne Cup.

reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 4:49pm
I wonder how many MC winners have been C.T. like Russian Camelot? The vast majority is my guess.Wink
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 5:03pm
Was the Epsom Derby too tough a staying test for Camelot, or the contour of the track a little tricky?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horlicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 5:08pm
He won the English and Irish derbies
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lopartega Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 6:03pm
What on Earth are you talking about Carioca? He only won the Derby by 5 lengths.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by Lopartega Lopartega wrote:

What on Earth are you talking about Carioca? He only won the Derby by 5 lengths.
Apologies fellas , got the wrong horse.Ouch
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