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Russian Camelot |
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djebel 
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 Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 6:25pm |
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If it was not for a poorly timed run and a suspect winner Camelot would be a triple crown winner.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Carioca
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Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 7:07pm |
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It annoys me when I make a blunder like that and obviously someone else lol, djebel any idea what O'Brien horse I'm referring to , AO said he failed to stay the journey and track contour may also have been a factor, a good horse I think and not that long ago.
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Grey Affair
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Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 7:32pm |
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Could it be Saxon Warrior? |
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djebel
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Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 7:34pm |
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Why Ballydoyle has the edge in the Investec DerbySeven-time Epsom Derby winner Aidan O’Brien opens the stable doors to reveal the workings behind one of the world’s most successful sporting facilities.To the casual observer on a quiet afternoon drive through the beautiful Irish county of Tipperary it would be easy to sail straight past the modest entrance without even a flicker of recognition. The only clue to the magic that is cast within what many racing experts consider to be the finest training establishment in the world is a jet-black statue of Nijinsky, tucked beyond a small security building a few yards inside the entrance. It’s only as you enter the grounds, up the trail alongside a sprint gallop, that you begin to get a sense of the mystery behind the estate that has trotted out 13 Epsom Derby winners in the past 60 years.  It was while visiting the working farm in 1950 that Vincent O’Brien (right) spotted the potential within the sweeping fields and gentle hills for an elite training operation, but he would have been hard-pushed to foresee the influence that the grounds would have on Irish racing folklore. 13 Derby winners trained at Ballydoyle When he handed over the reins of Ballydoyle to Aidan O’Brien (no relation) in 1995 he had notched up six winners in the greatest flat race. But Aidan knows a bit about winning. A little more than 20 years later and he has surpassed his predecessor’s achievements, after Anthony Van Dyck passed the finishing post ahead of the field in 2019, in the process equalling the all-time Epsom Derby trainers’ record, with seven victories. But if you still needed convincing, a walk around the elite training facility casts firmly aside any thoughts that success bred within the grounds is down to chance. The attention to detail is the result of more than 60 years of racing expertise combining to create a purpose-built facility that is designed to win the Epsom Derby. As Aidan O’Brien says: “[Epsom] is a very demanding track. It's up down left right, switch back, it is the ultimate test of a thoroughbred. The surface is always brilliant, but the track itself tests every muscle and sinew in a horse’s body. They race back into the crowd so it tests them mentally as well.” 
He adds: “The Derby can't be much tougher. The best colts turn out - you might think you know the best colt going into it, but you'll definitely know the best colts coming out, so that's the exciting thing about the day.” When Vincent changed his focus from national hunt horses to flat racing he set about redesigning aspects of the Ballydoyle gallops to try and find the competitive advantage that would give his horses an edge over the field. He found that the fertile limestone and natural drainage across the land was perfect for growing a good covering of grass. But with hard ground during the summer months fraught with danger for the fragile legs of a racehorse, and little room for manoeuvre in the tight training schedules for fledgling colts, more needed to be done. Even Aidan’s softly spoken words seem to harden slightly when speaking of the challenges of preparing a horse for the Investec Derby: “They have to be ready for a tough battle and you can't really think of the next day when you’re training them for it. You have to train them like there's no tomorrow, hopefully they come out of it and they race on after.” Tattenham CornerThe Ballydoyle gallops include a replica of Epsom's tricky Tattenham Corner, which sweeps round on a camber before the racehorses enter the final straight. As soon as horses start training as two-year-olds, to go down to the main gallop they have to canter round this section. It took 15 years to shift tons of peat, found naturally within the farm, in thin layers to the gallops, providing a cushion to protect the delicate legs of thoroughbred racehorses as they thundered up the gentle inclines, allowing them to find that marginal gain and push themselves that little bit more than previously without putting too much strain on their legs. The grass is regularly checked in order to ensure that it remains at the optimum length – too long and it can get clogged in hooves, potentially causing horses to turn ankles and break their legs, but too short and it fails to provide sufficient protection. The attention to detail doesn’t stop there. Vincent set about recreating his very own version of racing’s hallowed ground, replicating the tricky Tattenham Corner, a unique section of the Epsom course which sweeps round on a camber before the racehorses enter the final straight. 
As Aidan says: “When the horses start working on the grass it’s the only way home, so from the time they start as two-year-olds, to go down to the main gallop they have to canter round Tattenham Corner. They’d have cantered around hundreds of times before. In [Vincent] O’Brien's time it was all about Epsom so he had it laid out every horse when they were finished at work they had to canter home around it.” It is in this group of two-year-olds that Aidan hopes to find next year’s Derby winner, but there are no special favours. Aidan reveals: “We don't try judge them for a long time, we get them through the maidens and try and get them into trials if we can, and after the trials, then if they show us that they can compete in the Derby even if they didn't win a trial we let them take their chance.” Aidan can be found, binoculars in hand, firing instructions through earpieces to jockeys as they streak across the gallops across the hill, fine tuning techniques, asking them to push harder or ease up. “We try and give as many of them as we can a chance to run in the Derby, and get them there in one piece and then giving them a chance to perform.”  Joseph O'Brien riding Camelot to victory in the 2012 Investec Derby. The race favourite was also trained by his father Aidan O'BrienAidan attributes a fair share of his Derby success in 2012 and 2014 to his son Joseph, who rode to victory on Camelot, to become the first father/son combination to win the Epsom Derby, and then Australia. “When Joseph was riding he knew all the work. It just made our job so much easier and we didn't have to worry about explaining anything or telling him anything.“He understood and he felt it and he knew more about them than we did really, and he knew what stage of work to be at, whether to be easy on them, to be hard on them or whatever.” With a record like Aidan’s, it would be easy to sit back and bask in your victories. But his passion for success still burns as brightly as ever. “What happened in the past is not much good to us because it's all past tense. We try and take learnings from the past, any things we did we shouldn't do, and any of the things that we worked we try to remember them. “The past is experience and experience is always an advantage but that's all it is. You need to have success in the future and look to the future. Every time you have runners it's great to be able to remember it, but it is the past. You have to keep striving to the future.” |
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
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Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 7:39pm |
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Trying to find excuses for his horses coming out of the Derby, On Saxon Warrior "It wasn't to be. He ran a good race and I'd not like to take it away from the winner in anyway. These things happen, but I wouldn't be making excuses," said O'Brien. "We will take him home and see how he is. It might have been all new to him as he was drawn in there (one) and down there on the rail, and it would have been a big shock to him. "I've often seen that happen to horses and they leave a run behind them very quick. "I think he was a little bit in awe of the whole thing, really. He is a baby horse. It's only his fifth run. We will look forward to him the next time." He added: "We will see how is, but I wouldn't rule it (Irish Derby) out. He has run on very easy, uncomplicated tracks and this is probably the first complicated track he has had to handle." His rider Ryan Moore said: "He just didn't pick up. Maybe it was the track or the ground but I just don't think he fired. "These races are always tight - the winner got first run and I followed him through so I can't have too many excuses." |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Lord Hybrow
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Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 7:41pm |
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Carioca, are you thinking of Carlton House? Seem to remember him not quite staying out 2400m if the Derby.
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djebel
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Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 7:45pm |
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Or Rip Van Winkle ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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Carioca
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Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 7:59pm |
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I gotta bit o reading to do lol, but fellas thanks for starters , it was I'm pretty sure an AO quote.
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Red Hare
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 5:47pm |
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VOYAGER
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Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 18734 |
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 5:49pm |
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The Turnbull looks a very nice lead in to the Caulfield Cup.
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Second Chance
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 5:50pm |
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Great run.
Ok he drew awful so I guess little surprise he raced 4 wide without cover throughout. Rather have John Allen on him than Oliver.
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TJMitchell
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 5:50pm |
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He's a beautiful looking horse
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Time is a flat circle
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Carioca
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 6:39pm |
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Great return and oozes class, WSCox Plate for mine.
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Second Chance
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 6:48pm |
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Yes connections are talking Caulfield Cup and why not I guess, however am right into the Cox for him also Carioca.
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Red Rancher
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 7:03pm |
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I thought he was over hyped and backed Fierce Impact. For such a young horse I was really impressed with the run today. With maturity he could be anything. Amazing talent.
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Lord Hybrow
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Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 12:33am |
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Reports are that his Spring program will be:
Underwood Stks 1800m Caulfield Stks 2000m Cox Plate 2040m Melb Cup 3200m Sounds like the Caulfield Cup is not in the plan
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mikey
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Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 11:23pm |
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He won me over today. I cant remember a horse racing 4 wide the trip at Flemington over any distance around the bend & finishing the race off. He was entitled to drop right out. Could be a freak.
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mikey
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Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 11:24pm |
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That said, any risk the tough run flattens him? A gutbuster first up is not a good thing?
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Jamal
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Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 11:26pm |
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Shocking was wide in the 2009 Melbourne Cup
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Take2
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Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 12:14am |
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his Sire's 15th Dam was renowned for getting out of her ground in her 54 consecutive unbeaten wins
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change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol
www.3rdmillenniumbloodstock.com.au |
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djebel
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Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 12:29am |
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That was Camelots 15th dam wasn't it ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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Take2
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Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 12:53am |
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Yep, i think at one time every kid in the world knew her story about her and "her"cat, as the story goes, she had a habit of picking grass whilst the field was positioning itself for the start, and in one, inglorious display, the field had gone some hundreds of metres before her jock got her moving , she dead heated, and won the run off by lengths
Edited by Take2 - 14 Sep 2020 at 12:59am |
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change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol
www.3rdmillenniumbloodstock.com.au |
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Bonfield
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Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 10:21pm |
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Biased track that day. It was advantageous to be wide.
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Bonfield
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Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 10:23pm |
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Absolutely. Always a risk. Although I find it is more likely to occur over shorter trips than 1600m first up. Perhaps because for a horse to run so well over 1600m first up it must be pretty fit.
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Bonfield
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Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 10:25pm |
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Very Elegant will be hard for him to beat in Cox Plate.
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djebel
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Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 11:12pm |
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A run over 1600m is not as tough on horses as 1000m and 1200m races where they do not get a rhythm or rest. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Lord Hybrow
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Posted: 17 Sep 2020 at 8:23am |
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Latest that I’ve heard is the connections of VE are planning to skip the Cox PLate to focus on the Cups double.
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Jamal
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Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 12:43pm |
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https://www.racingandsports.com/news/timeform/timeform-news/2020-09-15/timeform-recap-2020-makybe-diva-stakes/526951
Please see link above for more information.
Fierce Impact - 121 (winner) Russian Camelot - 123 (ran 2nd) Russian Camelot - new peak career Timeform rating, eclipsing 122 rating when winning the G1 South Australian Derby, earlier this year in May. Fierce Impact - 12 month stretch where he has become one of Australia's best milers. Five runs over the mile in that period have returned Timeform ratings of: 118 (1st - 2019 G1 Toorak Handicap) 118 (1st - 2019 G1 Cantala Stakes) 121 (3rd - 2020 G1 Chipping Norton Stakes) 118 (4th - 2020 All Star Mile) 121 (1st - 2020 G1 Makybe Diva Stakes) |
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Tlazolteotl
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Posted: 26 Sep 2020 at 8:40pm |
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No way Russian Camelot will miss the Cox Plate.
 Race at his mercy. I can't even think of a danger. |
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Schillaci
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Posted: 26 Sep 2020 at 9:23pm |
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Armory
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Carioca wrote:|
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