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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Softy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 8:39am
End of story. Lol.
There sure are some comedians about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 8:46am
For some Softy, blame the Greens is end of story, which is why this will likely happen again next year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 9:25am
Which why both the Victorian and Commonwealth Government are spending billions setting up permanent  agencies to manage the recurring scourge of mega bushfires.   

This isn't going away folks and it is has never been as simple as the simple want to pretend it to be. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 9:37am
California are facing their 4th straight year of worse conditions than the previous year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 9:39am
Answer the question asked please. The climatic conditions where the same 100 odd years ago . Why no mega fires like these?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 10:06am
You wont get a sensible answer, Baguette, just get told you are a denier.  Thats the fave word around here at the moment, but it only applys to those who,s opinions differ to PT and partners.
100 years ago men with local knowledge of their area and country, learned by working in and on that land , understood how to manage it.  Same later on with park rangers.  Men with experience of country .
Now they pop out of Uni waving a bit of paper, after 4 or 5 years of good times, and are immediate experts on anything and everything.  just ask them.
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baghdad Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 10:10am
If I was now betting on The Word Of The Year in 2020 it would be "denier", still it is only January.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 10:18am
They scream “ denier” with all fanaticism of the Spanish Inquisition screaming heretic! They seem to forget they’re in the minority , or did I dream the results of the “ climate change “ election?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 10:29am
Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

They scream “ denier” with all fanaticism of the Spanish Inquisition screaming heretic! They seem to forget they’re in the minority , or did I dream the results of the “ climate change “ election?



A little bit of history repeating

Researchers say that if a drought similar to the Federation drought was to take place today, changes in landscape and land use would change how parts of the country would react.

"There's been substantial changes in how the landscape is used, and I think that a drought of that severity returning today could be more devastating in some parts of the country, particularly where there is intensive agriculture," Dr Godfree said.

"Another area of concern is rivers that are regulated now and where there is a lot of human extraction [of water].


https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-07-16/federation-drought-analysis-finds-huge-ecosystem-losses/11312694


An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 10:36am
Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

Answer the question asked please. The climatic conditions where the same 100 odd years ago . Why no mega fires like these?


What is the point you are trying to make? I have already agreed that Coalition and Labor legislators and administrators, mainly Coalition,Wink have let us down badly re land management and hazard reduction.

Stop voting for them.Thumbs Up
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

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marble View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 10:38am
the amount of back burning in NSW this decade was double the amount in the previous decade - still hasn't stopped the megafires
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baghdad Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 10:40am
Are you saying I should vote for The Greens.Thumbs Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 10:49am
Originally posted by marble marble wrote:

the amount of back burning in NSW this decade was double the amount in the previous decade - still hasn't stopped the megafires


Marble, did you see my question re the number of fires deliberately lit or the number of people charged for lighting fires?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 10:55am
Would be nice if some one could put Ricky Gervais' message to recipients of a Golden Globe award about grandstanding re Oz bushfires, its brilliant but didn't stop the attention seekers , Marlon B. done the same in regard to their indigenous Indians, but at least money raised will go to the people who are doing it tough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 10:57am
Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

Answer the question asked please. The climatic conditions where the same 100 odd years ago . Why no mega fires like these?


Who says there weren't?
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 10:58am
sorry shrunk - it's staggering there is that many people who could perform such an act, but the act of lighting the fire doesn't make the fire worse. The conditions do.
There is a lot of questions to be answered on how to better deal with the fires. We need a panel of Experts to sort this out.  Forestry management, firies , native vegetation and NO politicians. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 11:03am
Originally posted by marble marble wrote:

the amount of back burning in NSW this decade was double the amount in the previous decade - still hasn't stopped the megafires


It isnt just back burning thats required fiddlesticks.  Its proper management of land, forest, rivers, etc etc etc.
Back burning in parks and forests is only a small part of it. 
Laws need to be looked at, and changed, so people can clear properly.
In the NT , especially Darwin, new houses are built to withstand cyclones.  If people want to build out in the scrub,  surrounded by trees, then their houses need to be fire proofed.  Or better yet, they dont build there, but on cleared land.
The list goes on and on, and blaming ScoMo is rubbish.  This has been going on for years.  Saying the greens have no impact is also rubbish as even I know BOTH major parties suck up to them for their preferences. 
My OH used to log on the north coast at least 25 years ago, and back then trained forestry men used to say if better land management isnt implemented, and enforced, by Govnt,  one day the whole east coast will go up in flames.

animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 11:06am
Originally posted by marble marble wrote:

sorry shrunk - it's staggering there is that many people who could perform such an act, but the act of lighting the fire doesn't make the fire worse. The conditions do.
There is a lot of questions to be answered on how to better deal with the fires. We need a panel of Experts to sort this out.  Forestry management, firies , native vegetation and NO politicians. 


YES.  Thumbs Up
And please no screaming ferals with a goat on a lead, that chose to live out in the scrub.

animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 11:08am
Well we are heading in the right direction Marble re your suggestion , but tell me have young ever heard how the indigenous people done " circle burning" for undergrowth, it's interesting .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TIGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 11:13am
We have had bushfires for thousands of years, it's sad and terrible news when animals, houses and lives are lost but it's NOT this climate change nonsense like some think



EAD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 11:19am
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

You wont get a sensible answer, Baguette, just get told you are a denier.  Thats the fave word around here at the moment, but it only applys to those who,s opinions differ to PT and partners.
100 years ago men with local knowledge of their area and country, learned by working in and on that land , understood how to manage it.  Same later on with park rangers.  Men with experience of country .
Now they pop out of Uni waving a bit of paper, after 4 or 5 years of good times, and are immediate experts on anything and everything.  just ask them.


Maybe someone should start a Climate Change thread.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 11:22am
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Originally posted by marble marble wrote:

the amount of back burning in NSW this decade was double the amount in the previous decade - still hasn't stopped the megafires


It isnt just back burning thats required fiddlesticks.  Its proper management of land, forest, rivers, etc etc etc.
Back burning in parks and forests is only a small part of it. 
Laws need to be looked at, and changed, so people can clear properly.
In the NT , especially Darwin, new houses are built to withstand cyclones.  If people want to build out in the scrub,  surrounded by trees, then their houses need to be fire proofed.  Or better yet, they dont build there, but on cleared land.
The list goes on and on, and blaming ScoMo is rubbish.  This has been going on for years.  Saying the greens have no impact is also rubbish as even I know BOTH major parties suck up to them for their preferences. 
My OH used to log on the north coast at least 25 years ago, and back then trained forestry men used to say if better land management isnt implemented, and enforced, by Govnt,  one day the whole east coast will go up in flames.



Would something like this work?

Hazard reduction, including manual, mechanical and hazard reduction burning activities should be strategically planned to protect the community and vulnerable assets while minimising the adverse impacts of these activities on the environment;

 Bush fire risk management should be informed by the knowledge of Indigenous Australians.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 11:28am
Inconvenient I am sure but here it is again:

How much hazard reduction has happened?

In the last full fire season of 2018 and 2019, the National Parks and Wildlife Service in NSW told Guardian Australia it carried out hazard reduction activities across more than 139,000 hectares, slightly above its target.

There are two major restricting factors for carrying out prescribed burning. One is the availability of funds and personnel, and the second is the availability of weather windows.

The 2018-19 annual report of the NSW Rural Fire Service says: “The ability of the NSW RFS and partner agencies to complete hazard reduction activities is highly weather dependent, with limited windows of opportunity. Prolonged drought conditions in 2018-19 adversely affected the ability of agencies to complete hazard reduction works.”

The RFS said 113,130 properties had been subject to hazard reduction activities, which was 76% of its target. The 199,248ha covered was 106% of its target.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 11:53am
So that's about 1/27 th of the area ravaged, I wonder how the drought stopped them doing more?..just asking .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 12:00pm
Yep, drought as a consequence of changing climate.

Scott Morrison Saturday
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 12:00pm

Aboriginal cultural fire practitioner Dennis Barber led a series of cultural burns on six hectares of bushland at Ngurrumpaa in 2015 and 2016 - the first burns in the area since a wildfire swept through in 1994.

"There's nothing more powerful than doing it and feeling like you're doing the right thing, and seeing the results," he said.

Unlike hazard reduction burning, cultural burns are cooler and slower moving, usually no taller than knee height, leaving tree canopies untouched and allowing animals to take refuge from the flames. Small fires are lit with matches, instead of drip torches, and burn in a circular pattern.

Mr Barber says the ancient practice is informed by thousands of years of traditional knowledge.

Dennis Barber says properties across NSW and Australia could benefit from cultural burning.

Dennis Barber says properties across NSW and Australia could benefit from cultural burning. Credit:Rhett Wyman

“It's more than just putting the fire on the ground - it's actually knowing the country, knowing what's there … the soil types, the geology, the trees, the animals, the breeding times of animals, the flowering times of plants,” he said.

The timing and frequency of burns depend on the environmental “system”.

A former park ranger with 15 years’ professional firefighting experience, Mr Barber says he had a “light bulb moment" at a cultural burning workshop with Indigenous elders in far north Queensland in 2010.

“Everything that I'd been doing as a professional firefighter, thinking that I was doing the right thing, was wrong, because I viewed fire in the landscape totally differently after that week,” he said.

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animals before people.
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“That's where I got the bug to come back and actually spread that knowledge and see it happening in other parts of Australia.”

The Wiradjuri man started Koori Country Firesticks in 2016 to promote cultural burning as an alternative to hazard reduction techniques in NSW. The organisation has culturally burnt around 50 hectares of land across the Hunter Valley and Sydney, mainly on private properties at the request of owners.

But the 55-year-old has met plenty of resistance from governments, professional firefighters, national parks and even ecologists.

“It's been a little bit frustrating, but I've just decided I'm not going to let that stand in the way anymore,” he said.

animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 12:10pm
That is excellent AA.

It has been Greens policy since 2013.

Bush fire risk management should be informed by the knowledge of Indigenous Australians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

So that's about 1/27 th of the area ravaged, I wonder how the drought stopped them doing more?..just asking .

Waiting PT.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 12:26pm
The presumption in your question is that not enough was done to prevent the fires, is that correct?

David Littleproud said yesterday that more than enough was done. I can do no more than defer to our government.
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