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2020 Melbourne Cup
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Baghdad Bob View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 8:37am
Well It diid not take that long before the odds on the 2020 Melbourne Cup were up and running. Sportsbet have odds up today, less than 24 hours after the running of the 2019 Cup. I read in the press of all the winning bets that were won on yesterday’s winner at odds of 200/1 months out from raceday , but nothing of all the losing bets placed . Sounds if it is a great marketing ploy .
It is hard enough to pick the winner on race day, let alone picking a starter 12 months ahead of the race, despite the attraction of the odds offered to back that winner.
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Shawy38 View Drop Down
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Surprise Baby just needs to stay sound and he will win.
See you in 2020
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Kew Gardens...........................58
Cross Counter..........................56
Vow And Declare.....................55
Ill Paradiso...............................55
Prince Of Aran.........................55
Master Of Reality.....................55
Search For A Song..................54.5
Surprise Baby..........................54
Warning...................................54
Finche......................................53.5
Carif.........................................49
Shared Ambition......................48
Our Candidate.........................46
Alessandro...............................34
reductio ad absurdum
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mikey View Drop Down
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Surprise Baby - oh what might have been!

But that's racing. Who is to say wont run into shocking luck in the race next year, even if he is kept sound.

Horse is an amazing talent, should win his owners millions in the countries best races, but crazy to target just one race.
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djebel View Drop Down
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Kew Gardens...........................58
Dee Ex Bee..............................57.5
Cross Counter..........................56
Vow And Declare.....................55
Ill Paradiso...............................55
Prince Of Aran.........................55
Master Of Reality.....................55
Ispolini.....................................55.5
Search For A Song..................54.5
Surprise Baby..........................54
Warning...................................54
Finche......................................53.5
Skyward...................................52.5
Miami Bound............................52
Carif.........................................49
Shared Ambition......................48
Our Candidate.........................46
Alessandro...............................34
reductio ad absurdum
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2020 Melbourne Cup still the plan for Cross Counter

2020 Melbourne Cup still the plan for Cross Counter
Cross Counter has been set for the 2020 Melbourne Cup. Photo: Darryl Sherer
 
Brad Waters

International travel restrictions haven’t stopped Godolphin trainer Charlie Appleby again putting the Melbourne Cup firmly on the agenda for Cross Counter.

Cross Counter won the Melbourne Cup as a northern hemisphere three-year-old in 2018 before running eight to Vow And Declare last year.

International travel is up in the air during the coronavirus crisis but Appleby told the Racing Post he has set Cross Counter for another crack at the Melbourne Cup.

Cross Counter hasn’t race since finishing fifth in a race in Saudi Arabia on February 29 but Appleby said the son of Teofilo wasn’t far off resuming.

“He was fresh and well when he went to Riyadh for the Saudi Turf Handicap in February, and he did a bit more than we wanted, he was a bit gassy,” Appleby said.

“He was fifth, beaten seven lengths. The Gold Cup in Dubai was cancelled and he's arrived back in Britain in good order.

“An accomplished international campaigner, Cross Counter won the Melbourne Cup in 2018 and was beaten a length and a half in eighth last year.

“If it is logistically possible, the Cup will be his end-of-year target once again.”

Appleby has sent a team of horses to Melbourne for the spring in recent years, winning Group I races with the likes of Jungle Cat and Benbatl and support races with runners such as Qewy and Oceanographer.

Appleby said Barney Roy, who returned to racing last year after failing at stud, could also be a member of a travelling party later in the year.

Barney Roy won the Group I St James’s Palace Stakes (1m) during the 2017 Royal Ascot carnival and claimed the Group I Jebel Hatta (1800m) at Meydan during the aborted Dubai World Cup carnival.

“Barney Roy showed his class, winning twice at Meydan at the Dubai World Cup Carnival – his turn of foot can be devastating,” Appleby said.

“He showed that he's back to his best, and next month's Prince of Wales's Stakes at Ascot is his next assignment.

“He will also be on our international team later in the year.”

has Cross Counter as a $51 chance in its early Melbourne Cup market.
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
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$51 Cross Counter.Shocked I thought he'd nearly be favourite.
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron
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I just took the $56 with the TAB. if he starts he will be $10.
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Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
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Ok so if the Caulfield Cup is after the Melbourne Cup what is the lead up race for locally trained MC horses
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

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djebel View Drop Down
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Whilst I do not agree with this nonsense by itself there are heaps of lead ups.

The Bart Cummings into The Moonee Valley Cup which apparently they are going to try and run on the traditional Caulfield Cup day. If that does not happen the Zipping Classic will be moved to Caulfield Cup day.

There are numerous races to run in prior to the Cup.
reductio ad absurdum
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Barney Roy is Excelebrations best colt
“Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined”
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Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
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Why are they moving the CC?
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron
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Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
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You won't get good NH horses running in the Bart Cummings or MV Cup.
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron
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Mr Grieves View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Why are they moving the CC?


Out of the hope that one month later there will be more chance of crowds being able to attend
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Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Ok so if the Caulfield Cup is after the Melbourne Cup what is the lead up race for locally trained MC horses


In VIC:
Bart Cummings Stks 2500m
Herbert Power Hcp 2400m
Geelong Cup 2400m
Moonee Valley Cup 2500m
Bendigo Cup 2400m
Hotham Hcp 2500m

In NSW:
Newcastle Gold Cup 2300m
Colin Stephen Qlty 2400m
ATC Metropolitan 2400m
ATC St Leger 2600m
City Tattersalls Club Cup 2400m

Options galore for all stayers aiming at the Melb Cup
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Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

You won't get good NH horses running in the Bart Cummings or MV Cup.



Or any of those races.
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron
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Second Chance View Drop Down
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Last year only two overseas trained gallopers ran in the Caulfield Cup.  Add Rostropovich which Hayes got in July and that makes three.

So if 2019 is any guide the loss of the CC as a lead up will have little affect in terms of NH horses.
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Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

You won't get good NH horses running in the Bart Cummings or MV Cup.


Or any of those races.

Huh? Didn’t some of these NH horses run in those races?

Americain, Hunting Horn, Dunaden, Protectionist, Qewy, True Self, Red Galileo, Withhold, Oceanographer, Prince of Arran, etc?
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According to tradition, MC contenders have just returned to stables In first fortnight of June from their spells in prep for 1st Tues in November. Today most are pretrained in country. Yesteryear a follower could note the progress with regular track work reports recorded in the morning and afternoon press but extensively in Sportsman form guide. BTW nominations were taken in June, weights used to come out in July and Millers Guide in late August. We were chuffed when we could say we had so and so in the MC. Only ever had one go to acceptances though.
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Yes it can be really complicated these days Majestic.

For instance, one of our home-breds returned from the paddock not so long ago.  He spent some time at a commercially run private property doing arena work, after which he was then transferred to Ballarat progressing to long striding stage on the hilly sand circuit.  He'll now some time at Cranbourne for whatever reason (maybe jump outs or just close to home if home is full), before finally arriving at his "home base" Caulfield for the last part of his pre-race preparation.

So he'll be largely invisible until about a month before his resumption.
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Mean while none of the Europeans will have spent any time getting fat.

They will have stayed at or near racing trim from the time they started training as yearlings.
reductio ad absurdum
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Relevance to Majestic's post or just an off the cuff comment?
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It is relevant to both the above comments.

Until our trainers and our whole campaigning philosophy changes our horses will always be catching their dust.
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djebel you clearly didn't either read or understand Majestic's post.  

It has naff all to do with when's, how's and why's of a horses pre-race program but was  rather all about attempting to identify future success based on observation: ie "yesteryear a follower could note the progress with regular track work reports recorded in the morning and afternoon press but extensively in Sportsman form guide. Today most are pre-trained in the country"....
 
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I understood it fully.


reductio ad absurdum
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My comment was an observation from the 50s 60s 70s and 80s. Even Bart varied the routine with Saintly, then we get to international runners and victors in the 90s and early 2000s. This was when the locals realised that you dont let a stayer go right back to nature during a spell and start from scratch toward the spring targets. We watched, we learnt and started to apply overseas practices. We dont start in August with 1200m races and run 15,000m before MC to get fit to run 3200m. The Irish and Poms use the Curragh and Epsom Downs and private hilly country to achieve/ maintain fitness, as djebel has said, from yearlings. Who used Aussie practices but adopted Pommy methods to win MC in the 90s and 2000s? FBI, Hayes, Bart, Moroney,etc. 
Mark my words, Aussie stayers are on the way back. If race clubs come on board and program a steady progression for stamina building, our local stayers, with certain trainers, will progress to cup contenders.
But, we need to promote our local stayer stallions. Look at Japanese Breeding and analyse their pedigrees and their training methods. We can not allow ourselves to not be learning from the forward thinkers on international breeding/training. 
Unfortunately, the Kiwis have lost the ball with stayers. Their breeding and racing infrastructure is f##ked and will take years To recover and be aN influence.
Go Aussies, believe and you will succeed. 
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I know this will not happen but here it goes.

If Amanda whatshername at the VRC wants to pull off a coup, here it is.

To get the best 2800m+ horse (Stradivarius) in the world to the first Tuesday in November, pay the connections an appearance fee equal to the first prizemoney of the Arc, and lay out the red carpet (so in other words give him 60 kilos, he should be carrying 62 at least).

I know he wont come, but this horse would be the biggest attraction the Cup has had since Phar Lap was to carry the 66.5 kilos in 1932, okay maybe Kingston Town and Makybe Diva for her 3rd, would be in that final!
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Handshake
reductio ad absurdum
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Stradivarius like the 18th century violin is delicate and will be so protected that any strings that you try to pull will not tune to the chords down under.....
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Stradavarius - a very very dominant win in the G1 Ascot Gold Cup. Was in another league. 
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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