Vow And Declare

Mr Grieves - I agree, he was disappointing.

Max Maneawer - maybe. Problem now is that he will have big weights in the spring Cups and he looks a little one paced for WFA races. The other issie is we dont hsve many 2400m+ races in Australia at WFA either.

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers

He's a lot better than today's run but will still be a hard horse to place for a win. Should win Andrew Ramjet if they go on but after that?

An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

Didn't mind the fact he was beaten four lengths by Haky, but the fact that 2nd, 3rd and fourth all went past him in the last 200m was the poor part of his run.

For him to be fit for the 3200m in the spring, they need to run him in the Ramsden, if not he will be aimed at the Mackinnon - Sandown Classic double.

Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise

Our champion stayer. Loooooool

Fair dinkum, our horses regress by the MONTH.

He should of put that field field away. Off-season stayers that lot.

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers

Trainer has baulked this one up. Horse looked overworked and one paced first up over 2000m yet he still backed it up again over 2000m against the elite of the elite. Mindboggling decision should have been aimed at the Sydney Cup.

I don't think the trainer would be too worried, besides the handicapper maybe a little kind to him in the spring.

I couldn't help but think of djebel when listening to Archie reflecting on Haky's win:

"Alexander said he has focused on teaching Haky to settle better in his races, which could lead to a profitable spring campaign for the Irish-bred stayer.

“I was adamant the minute I got this horse that he’s not going to be leading anymore,” Alexander said.

“I think going the Australian way of trialling over 800, running over 1000, running over a mile, the non-European things, has really taught this horse to relax and stop having his own way.

“He always had his own way in Europe and we’re teaching him that this is the way we want him to race."

Reminiscent of how Bart trained his stayers Thumbs Up

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

Australia: "Vow And Declare ran to a Timeform rating of 110 on Saturday. He ran to 117 in the Melbourne Cup. Very different pace scenario on Sat. Had he run to his Cup level I think he struggles to beat Haky anyway"

Also bear in mind that his peak Timeform rating is 119 when 3rd in the Australian Cup.

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers

"According to some guy's opinion, VAD ran to a rating of 110 on Saturday. He ran to 117 in the Melbourne Cup."

Xavier wrote:

anyone that pays money for that service is a fool

I dont pay money. My friend works for Timefoem Australia (racing and sports) so he tells me

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers

He's been nominated for the Herbert Power, what's going on here?

Trainer was a genius last year, but he went away from the prep and now is playing catch up.

Should have had a similar autumn/winter campaign as last year and he did not so now he is not fit enough and needs probably another two runs to get him anywhere near right.

Was never going to win the race anyway but the trainer who we gave the bouquets to last year, needs to be given the bricks when deserved.

One thing Bart always said about his cups horses is that he could see as two year olds they were cups types and so he gave them a 3 year prep for that first Tuesday in November. Training a cups horse is not just about the cup preparation you need to train them at least twelve months out.

I have backed him but I am scared that Surprise Baby has not had a similar prep to last year. There is a reason European trainers use the same races year in year out.

I stand by for djebel's post

Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise

VOYAGER wrote:

Trainer was a genius last year, but he went away from the prep and now is playing catch up.

Should have had a similar autumn/winter campaign as last year and he did not so now he is not fit enough and needs probably another two runs to get him anywhere near right.

Was never going to win the race anyway but the trainer who we gave the bouquets to last year, needs to be given the bricks when deserved.

One thing Bart always said about his cups horses is that he could see as two year olds they were cups types and so he gave them a 3 year prep for that first Tuesday in November. Training a cups horse is not just about the cup preparation you need to train them at least twelve months out.

I have backed him but I am scared that Surprise Baby has not had a similar prep to last year. There is a reason European trainers use the same races year in year out.

I stand by for djebel's post

Voyager - Rogan Josh wasn't with Bart for 12 months so Bart wasn't able to train him for 12 months, the same with Lets Elope. But I see your point also as well.

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers

He was ok in the Craiglee & Turnbull, but really pedestrian efforts in the 2 Cups.

He�s only a lightly raced 5yo & so long as he�s physically ok, should race on.

But where to in 2021 for V&D? Not a lot of races he�s suited to.